Autopsy Round 1 = Collingwood 69-102 Sydney

[No SPIN]

No what you are going is using an umbrella term that doesn't really tell you how the ball was won.

Actually you are trying to rewrite the interpretation by dismissing CP as metric for effort.
I can’t agree.

 

[pablo disco bar]

Wow...what had happened !?
We are shocking

They look for daicos too much

Murphy is a big loss

Eyre would play over Dean

We have ginivan and Henry kicking goals at other clubs

Lose next 2...just play the kids

 

[No SPIN]

FFS back at ya mate, it’s an opinion


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I think I’m not alone in expressing my thoughts on your brain fade.

 

[loki04]

I loathed Joel Selwood but come on man comparing Adams to Selwood in terms of influence is a stretch and a big one.

Both list calls were good ones. Adams hasn’t even played yet for the Swans and is injury prone. He didn’t deserve a multi year contact.

Ginners is not the reason our forward line is or is not functioning. Still a good list decision.

I think the structure of the forward line is ok - it is more the delivery to the forwards, Ash has been non competitive in the McStay role and our finishing has been incredibly poor. The forward line is currently playing one player short. If Frampton at least took out the opposition main intercept defender then it would make life easier for Checkers and bring more balls to ground for the smalls. Having said that the pressure from the smalls of Elliott and Schultz needs to be relentless. But I think Reef should have been given that opportunity in the first two games.

1. A total left field move could be to play Noble as a defensive small against opposition main ball carrier. At least with Noble the intensity will be there and it could increase the pressure in our forward line.
2. Another option could be to play WHE up there - not for his pressure but for his aerial marking ability and is generally a good finisher.

I reckon Harvey Harrison if he plays well in the VFL should get a game. More leg speed and a player who should be hungry is good.

As for Pendles, Steele and Crisp - these guys have had a massive workload and carried this team for large parts. It’s about time some others really stepped up. I saw some good signs from Lipinski but it’s more glimpses. How about come out and actually dominate a game. Quaynor needs to step up - provide some burst running and help with the ball movement. Hopefully Fin can now share the workload and provide himself as a bona fide afl player. Allan needs to step up and command a spot.

It's about his (Adams) impact on the team in terms of work rate, physical atta⁸ck, leadership and intent.
In that way he was important to us in those areas as Selwood. Selwood a better player at peak but Adams was also important to us even if some can't admit it.

Ginnivan will be a much better player then Schultz bookmark it, that's without even considering the first rounder.
Before you state they are unrelated there is no way they get rid of Ginnivan without Schultz coming in.

Both were s**t list decisions one short term and one long term.

Lipinski is a link player in the chain, is never going to be a front man.

 

[Stripes B and W]

Third quarter - game was there to be won ( commentators making the point our pressure impacting Swans) Then:
Moore’s bad kick - McDonald marks - Goal.

Crisp fails to break a tackle in defence - Goal

Pendles Turnover - swans kick to McDonald who marks on the goal line - Goal.

IQ errant kick - Swans recover kick to Warner who goals.

I think effort was not they issue in our loss.

our Skills have been way below the required level, admittedly against the heat of excellent sides but need to improve overnight.
It's also the magnitude of the errors, simply kicks to guys in space have been intercepted easy options hit the deck contracting time and space.
There were times last night i was hoping we could put the ball not on a chest but even within the same square km of the intended target... the errors were inexplicable.

 

[loki04]

They scored 80-odd from turnover. If you just half that, we're right in the hunt. It's the turnovers which see Moore about 15m away from an opponent and the Swans marking at a very easy goal-kicking angle.

The midfield has been competitive and if we can actually transition the ball without the above mentioned turnovers, we will look a lot more dangerous up the field.

That said there were some genuine 1v1 standard entries (where we didn't turn the ball over) where the defense did look a bit off. Dean out of his depth, I think Frampton comes in but it won't be the last we see of Dean.

The very first goal was Moore being beaten on a regulation lead and was exposed all night
Not sure why he escapes criticism and everyone points the finger at a 2nd gamer who in comparison did better on the night.

Dean needs exposure if they bring in Frammers they should put Howe forward.

 

[loki04]

our Skills have been way below the required level, admittedly against the heat of excellent sides but need to improve overnight.
It's also the magnitude of the errors, simply kicks to guys in space have been intercepted easy options hit the deck contracting time and space.
There were times last night i was hoping we could put the ball not on a chest but even with the same square km of the intended target... the errors were inexplicable.

Both GwS and Swans games there was often more Gws/Swans on the screen then pies players around the ball and also running the lines both ways.

On turn over they had waves running off us we had players not putting in to run.with them.

Players giving up the chase.

 

[danielnajdek]

When I think about it. Do you know what's even more stupid then us already playing 2 games when some teams haven't even played one game is that the VFL starts next week and already played 2 in the AFL. Such stupid fixturing.

 

[Stripes B and W]

It's about his (Adams) impact on the team in terms of work rate, physical atta⁸ck, leadership and intent.
In that way he was important to us in those areas as Selwood. Selwood a better player at peak but Adams was also important to us even if some can't admit it.

Ginnivan will be a much better player then Schultz bookmark it, that's without even considering the first rounder.
Before you state they are unrelated there is no way they get rid of Ginnivan without Schultz coming in.

Both were s**t list decisions one short term and one long term.

Lipinski is a link player in the chain, is never going to be a front man.

Im not going to buy into the comparison of Gin V Sch but the moves were absolutely related.
My beef then and now, was giving a future first and a second for him was just trading lunacy.

 

[loki04]

Actually you are trying to rewrite the interpretation by dismissing CP as metric for effort.
I can’t agree.

There is no rewrite the interpretation has breakdown.
You using CP as umbrella term to prove work rate as well as attack on the ball, and telling posters what they actually see on field is wrong because the stats on a page say so, is disingenuous at best.

We all know there is big variances in the contested mark and contested possesion stat.

Same as the Disposal Efficiency stat. What gets allowed under this banner is also at times suspect.

 

[No SPIN]

It's about his (Adams) impact on the team in terms of work rate, physical atta⁸ck, leadership and intent.
In that way he was important to us in those areas as Selwood. Selwood a better player at peak but Adams was also important to us even if some can't admit it.

Ginnivan will be a much better player then Schultz bookmark it, that's without even considering the first rounder.
Before you state they are unrelated there is no way they get rid of Ginnivan without Schultz coming in.

Both were s**t list decisions one short term and one long term.

Lipinski is a link player in the chain, is never going to be a front man.

Ginnivan was hugely disappointing last year and despite many chances, he failed. Had he proven himself there would have been no need to recruit Schultz.
Ginnivan is too slow, inconsistent and lacks urgency and application as demonstrated in the GF.
He has a lot of growing up to do which just added to the negatives and reasons to be traded.

 

[loki04]

Ginnivan was hugely disappointing last year and despite many chances, he failed. Had he proven himself there would have been no need to recruit Schultz.
Ginnivan is too slow, inconsistent and lacks urgency and application as demonstrated in the GF.
He has a lot of growing up to do which just added to the negatives and reasons to be traded.

He had to mature and build yes, but he was both a match winner and clutch player.

He was long term project that come 23 yo will be hitting his straps.

2nd year blues is hardly unique to him. Especially given the hoopla and umpires blatant cheating regards to any and all high contact he received.

Club should of held on.


Edit. Ginni having a good debut for Hawks...

 

[Markfs]

When I think about it. Do you know what's even more stupid then us already playing 2 games when some teams haven't even played one game is that the VFL starts next week and already played 2 in the AFL. Such stupid fixturing.

dont worry, we're still in the eight...

 

[cwoodgal]

He had to mature and build yes, but he was both a match winner and clutch player.

He was long term project that come 23 yo will be hitting his straps.

2nd year blues is hardly unique to him. Especially given the hoopla and umpires blatant cheating regards to any and all high contact he received.

Club should of held on.


Edit. Ginni having a good debut for Hawks...

Yeah I agree with this. As one of his biggest fans I’m still mourning the loss of him lol…….didn’t agree with letting him go. Let’s hope we don’t live to regret it


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[Go Woods]

Outs : AJ, WHE,
Ins : McInnes, Frampton, Mitchell

What did they both have in common???

Key Forwards.

It's the bane of our existence....
God forbid, something must give next trade period.

 

[No SPIN]

He had to mature and build yes, but he was both a match winner and clutch player.

He was long term project that come 23 yo will be hitting his straps.

2nd year blues is hardly unique to him. Especially given the hoopla and umpires blatant cheating regards to any and all high contact he received.

Club should of held on.


Edit. Ginni having a good debut for Hawks...

GF proved he was neither a match winner or a clutch player.
I think you’re really ignoring how much better Schultz’ track record is.

 

[Kes1984]

We can steady the ship. This obviously isn’t our brand.

That said geeze supporters can be fickle. Since 2018 our results have been
18- lost gf by a kick
19- lost prelim by a kick
20- lost semi (well beaten)
21- 2nd last
22- lost prelim by a kick
23- won the big dance

That’s an amazing record any way you put it. We’ve all known there’s a small cliff coming with our ageing list like Geel. Like Geel we snagged that flag before it came.

The issues we’ve all discussed on here and been aware of for some time is the lack of first round draft talent to replace those ageing stars. Through high finished or terrible trading we haven’t had access to top talent other than nick in some time.

At some point that’s going to catch up with us. Teams have highs and lows, no team stays up forever.

We won our flag. There’s plenty of time left in this season to right the ship, but this team is not a dynasty team, and we’ve all known this.

Great post

 

[loki04]

GF proved he was neither a match winner or a clutch player.
I think you’re really ignoring how much better Schultz’ track record is.

GF proved he was not ready as a 20yo, in a year he was having a down season under pressure that not many have been under.

Ginnivans 2nd year kicking 40 goals was better then Schultz best season to date.

 

[gouki88]

GF proved he was not ready as a 20yo, in a year he was having a down season under pressure that not many have been under.

Why should the club have held on? I think both saw the writing on the wall

 

[loki04]

Why should the club have held on? I think both saw the writing on the wall

Because he is an obvious talent that we uncovered later in the draft, and we have a lack of such on the list or access to in the coming seasons.

 

[Run n Spread]

We can steady the ship. This obviously isn’t our brand.

That said geeze supporters can be fickle. Since 2018 our results have been
18- lost gf by a kick
19- lost prelim by a kick
20- lost semi (well beaten)
21- 2nd last
22- lost prelim by a kick
23- won the big dance

That’s an amazing record any way you put it. We’ve all known there’s a small cliff coming with our ageing list like Geel. Like Geel we snagged that flag before it came.

The issues we’ve all discussed on here and been aware of for some time is the lack of first round draft talent to replace those ageing stars. Through high finished or terrible trading we haven’t had access to top talent other than nick in some time.

At some point that’s going to catch up with us. Teams have highs and lows, no team stays up forever.

We won our flag. There’s plenty of time left in this season to right the ship, but this team is not a dynasty team, and we’ve all known this.

Spot on. Hell of a run. And a flag. Just shows
A. They are tough to win
B. You need to.keep regenerating and putting yourself in a good position.
Agree a mini cliff is coming and the same 23 won't do it. Play some kids mix it up while the stars are there and you never know.
All our good players drafted came through with a graders showing the lead. Time to do it now with mcrae Allen et al while peak de goey daicos x 2 Moore are around

 

[jmac70]

Because he is an obvious talent that we uncovered later in the draft, and we have a lack of such on the list or access to in the coming seasons.

He’s gone. Move on.

 

[Magnanimous]

I was contemplating not posting any more because it aint healthy and this may be my last post, see how things go, certainly in the short term.

The fact is just look back the last 2 years and you can see the problems, yeah we won the flag, but we constantly did it winning 1 to 1.5 good qtrs and kept teams in the game, all those close wins at 50% would have us in the bottom 8.

We do have NO elite KPP at all and nothing coming through, Moore 1:1 is a shocker and teams have worked him out.

Maynard, JDG, Crisp, IQ and Howe are all burst straight line runners and suffer terribly in close or under pressure

Our forward line - we rely on a 30+ ex VFA player who is serviceable at best but lets face it any team we play who has 1 elite KPP is enough to do the job on us if all we do is bomb it. Have a look in the short term already and a big forward has kick at least 4-5 goals

Our smalls are all flashy and give no pressure, for too long now Beau has given us glimpses but doesn't get enough of the ball, needs to go back in the 2's for a few weeks or more to get more of the ball.

There are at least 5-6 of the senior guys that are just about done (you know who they are) we just got caught so many times last night looking for a second option rather than moving the ball down the ground quickly - thats where our smalls could have the advantage

Murphy needs to decide if he continues, lets face it, he is one hard bump from finishing up.

Nick cant do it on his own, he'll be burnt out by 25.

We dont have athletes in our side, looking at GWS & Sydney it seems like they 13-14 185cm-190cm runners who use the ball so much better than we do

The game plan my God, yeah we got away with it until opposition start to copy or work us out, we get sliced up so easily now and we just let it happen

May as well start blooding some of the lesser likes and see how it goes but doing the same thing over and over is the definitIon of insanity

Unfortunately playing kids and coming in the bottom 4 is useless this year with us trading our first round, just like we did a few years back.

Anyway time to jog off and look for greener pastures in the world.

Good luck everyone and lets how by some miracle we can turn this around.

Apologies for any spelling or Grammar errors, I couldn't be bother proof reading it

#192011

#nailed it

from my Delorean

 

[Magnanimous]

Also on multiple occasions last night Howe was standing alone in no man's land, leaving Moore trying to cover ground between multiple opponents which ultimately led to Moore having no influence in multiple contests. For the life of me I don't understand why both Howe and Dean stood behind their opponent instead of beside or in front of to block their leading. In both games we have lacked leadership in defence. I wonder if multiple changes in the line coaches has contributed to a change in tactics or communication style

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Agree with the lack of leadership shown, odd when all our leaders were in.
Darcy has been quiet, also noticed Howe seemed quite frustrated a few times last night.
Ditto Maynard.

Obviously Nick tries to be "the leader" maybe reading too much into it (probably am) but we seem to not be gelling these first few games.

With all the experience out there I would have hoped we put up a better fight and rallied harder in the second half.

The round 5 bye can't come soon enough and if we keep this form up there will need to be a few man conversations taking place if we are any chance of being a contender this year.

Interesting viewing so far and going to be good watching how we respond as the heat is turned up in the media.




from my Delorean

 

[Magnanimous]

It’s hard to be angry at the guys after what they did last year. You can be disappointed but I don’t really feel anger. Looks to me like a few have got that premiership success and have dropped off a fair bit. Can they get it back? I’m not sure. I feel a bit for Nick. He has been superb the first 2 games while having no team mates helping him out.

Nick will be fine with his mate Bailey playing next year.



from my Delorean