Preview Round 22 - Brisbane Lions vs Adelaide Crows • Saturday 12 August 2023 • 4:35 PM • The Gabba

[Lion_LegacyXL]

A bit hard on Neale regarding the final series.
He did rack up a lazy 46 disposal game v Dees.
Only 28 in the following weeks 2-point loss to the Dogs.
But Lachie was a little up and down after missing rounds 7 to 11 through injury.

I didn't mean to bag Lachie, I just think the coaches need to work out other strategies to support him when he's tagged or having a bad game by his standards.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I didn't mean to bag Lachie, I just think the coaches need to work out other strategies to support him when he's tagged or having a bad game by his standards.

Based on the 2021 final series?

 

[Lion_LegacyXL]

Based on the 2021 final series?

Based on the last 2 games

 

[jonnobackpocket]

The 284th ranked midfielder- not sure if I could pick any player in the league I could find 283 to pick in front of him, had 25 touches and 8 clearances last week. Hardly disasterous.

 

[Tom14]

The 284th ranked midfielder- not sure if I could pick any player in the league I could find 283 to pick in front of him, had 25 touches and 8 clearances last week. Hardly disasterous.

That's on champion data's 100x ratings in the last 4 weeks - i.e. what a players rating would be in their position if time on ground was equalised to 100 minutes, compared to that position on the ground. So will potentially reward players who do short but effective bursts in the middle as compared to lachie who has a very high time on ground and others are being rated based on say 30 minutes total in the midfield across the game.

I think he's down on form a bit, particularly in the last month but it isn't as bad as that. That 4 game sample includes his 2 worst games of the season (dees, Suns) too. Has to improve and hopefully the pre-finals bye will help freshen him up, but ignore David King's fetish for the 100x rating which has some statistical dubiousness (not my opinion, smarter people who analyse this stuff don't like it either).

Cody Atkinson who writes the excellent analysis pieces for the ABC every week had this to say when there was similar chat earlier this year:

 

[Elixuh]

That's on champion data's 100x ratings in the last 4 weeks - i.e. what a players rating would be in their position if time on ground was equalised to 100 minutes, compared to that position on the ground. So will potentially reward players who do short but effective bursts in the middle as compared to lachie who has a very high time on ground and others are being rated based on say 30 minutes total in the midfield across the game.

I think he's down on form a bit, particularly in the last month but it isn't as bad as that. That 4 game sample includes his 2 worst games of the season (dees, Suns) too. Has to improve and hopefully the pre-finals bye will help freshen him up, but ignore David King's fetish for the 100x rating which has some statistical dubiousness (not my opinion, smarter people who analyse this stuff don't like it either).

Cody Atkinson who writes the excellent analysis pieces for the ABC every week had this to say when there was similar chat earlier this year:

I hate the way champion data presents some data but don’t explain what they’ve done. It makes the presentation of the data almost meaningless.

 

[Tom14]

I hate the way champion data presents some data but don’t explain what they’ve done. It makes the presentation of the data almost meaningless.

I think the biggest issue is how David King and others who get the stuff direct from CD then just take it and run with it without allowing the context to be part of the discussion. I don't have a particular issue with Hoyne presenting a new rating system, as it is an interesting idea and good exercise, but there are obviously drawbacks.

For example, this rating system takes into account your 'positional' rating - i.e. are you better than others who play the same position. But that requires you to go and classify what position each player is playing at any given time which is very tough to do at around the ground stoppages - who is the wing, who is the half-forward that's been brought up to stoppages and who is playing genuine mid? Do you rate them all as mids or try distinguish? Because the tactical role of each player is different in that scenario you really aren't capturing the impact on the game and you probably can't do that from stats alone.

Mich Owens is a great young player but he comes out as a top 15/20 player in this ratings, and my suspicion would be that's partially because he's involved in a lot of high-impact play as that high half forward who comes up to stoppage.

Again, you don't get good analysis of the shortcomings or limitations of whatever data CD pumps out because it gets turned into a 'Fireball Friday' segment by Kingy who knows enough now to run with this stuff but either can't or won't caveat his takes by acknowledging possible limitations.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Surely part of champions data rankings should be that team's that win often have a lot of players rated highly by their ratings system which generally doesn't seem to be the case

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Champion data is a load of BS, not sure how they come up with half this rubbish.

 

[KissKiss]

Surely part of champions data rankings should be that team's that win often have a lot of players rated highly by their ratings system which generally doesn't seem to be the case

Yeah a few of our players definitely have not been rated well by our lower possession style. That and kicking down the line to a contest or the pocket for a repeat stoppage I dont think is rated that well by the system

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Thought I read Lachie was sick last week and missed some training sessions. Can't find anything though. Maybe on facebook

 

[Tom14]

Yeah a few of our players definitely have not been rated well by our lower possession style. That and kicking down the line to a contest or the pocket for a repeat stoppage I dont think is rated that well by the system

Yep, lower possession game style = less opportunities to score rating points. Dogs have 3 of the top 5/10. I think the ratings are interesting and useful, just can't turn that into a referendum on a player.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Worryingly confident. Brace yourselves.

 

[fugitive]

Fagan said in last weeks presser that his observation was that Lachie gets tagged in some capacity virtually every week, just some weeks it’s more noticeable.

I didn't mean to bag Lachie, I just think the coaches need to work out other strategies to support him when he's tagged or having a bad game by his standards.

 

[Warwick]

Yep, lower possession game style = less opportunities to score rating points. Dogs have 3 of the top 5/10. I think the ratings are interesting and useful, just can't turn that into a referendum on a player.

The Bulldogs midfielders are great to have in fantasy football because they just share it around and over-possess the ball.

As has been stated, we play a very low possession game.

 

[CarterS]

I really don't like this "we didn't have the right attitude against Gold Coast and we've learned from it" stuff. WTF? How do you not bring it every week? This is exactly why we haven't made a GF in the last few years. Cop out for me. Effort is non-negotiable.

 

[Nunez]

Worryingly confident. Brace yourselves.

I feel we'll see another Richmond game. We're back baby!

 

[Nunez]

I really don't like this "we didn't have the right attitude against Gold Coast and we've learned from it" stuff. WTF? How do you not bring it every week? This is exactly why we haven't made a GF in the last few years. Cop out for me. Effort is non-negotiable.

I'd like to see you play after for six months and bring 110% every game.

 

[CarterS]

I'd like to see you play after for six months and bring 110% every game.

So a lack of effort is acceptable? Beaten by a better team on the day, fine. Lost because we brought a bad attitude. Not good enough in a team that calls itself a flag contender.

 

[Nunez]

So a lack of effort is acceptable? Beaten by a better team on the day, fine. Lost because we brought a bad attitude. Not good enough in a team that calls itself a flag contender.

Friend, I promise 99% of top teams have had losses like we had due to the same reasons we had. It's human nature.

 

[Elixuh]

I'd like to see you play after for six months and bring 110% every game.

I do week after week

 

[T Rick]

I really don't like this "we didn't have the right attitude against Gold Coast and we've learned from it" stuff. WTF? How do you not bring it every week? This is exactly why we haven't made a GF in the last few years. Cop out for me. Effort is non-negotiable.

If only footy was that simple...bloody long season!

 

[Squizz89]

Friend, I promise 99% of top teams have had losses like we had due to the same reasons we had. It's human nature.

Problem is we’ve had at least 3 of them. When does it become to much? Suppose the answer to that question comes at the end of round 24 when we see our ladder position etc perhaps.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Gameday thread is up.