Autopsy Round 5, 2021: Hawthorn defeated by Melbourne

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theiaofseed

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Jun 17, 2019
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It was raised this morning that we have 3 players under 21 currently in the side.
Based on where our list is at and others in a similar predictament, is that number enough?
Noticeable absentees are Lewis, Day, DGB and maybe Jeka, Downie even?

Currently Sydney, Freo, Adelaide and North have 6,7,8 and 8 players under 21.

All about perception but admittedly, we don't have a lot of talent in that demographic bar the above mentioned.
How many years into a rebuild are the above? Baring Sydney who have the luxury of academies they've all been no competitive for ages, why do people expect Hawthorn to have the same number of top end talent under 21? We have to pick project players and wait for them to develop, we don't see our talent until their third or fourth year on the list that doesn't mean theyre not there.
 

Brishawk

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You're not offering a request service because you've got NOTHING.

I already posted what is happening, and it's certainly not over committing at the ball. Structure is good.
In nearly every shot I posted the dees had players sitting in wait outside the contest and we out numbered them in close. Sometimes we won it and sometimes they won it but when they won it they were a much bigger threat of taking the ball away. I posted four examples plus another from 2020. In response you posted one of my examples and then another in which the ball was cleanly moved out of the stoppage before we had a chance to crowd in on the ball. And you posted no commentary to tell us what you are seeing. You will need to humour me and explain why you think we can break even in the cleanses yet get blitzed by theirs on a regular basis.
 

Roby

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Like literally you have to be joking about the first one. I analysed it. That was what I posted. Someone already pointed this out to you and you still bang on about it. Go to bed, roby.
Sorry I missed that post.

The first contest is fine, structure is good. Melbourne is pretty good too except for Oliver who loses Howe and gets goalside.
 

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chopflop

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Nov 15, 2020
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Sorry I missed that post.

The first contest is fine, structure is good. Melbourne is pretty good too except for Oliver who loses Howe and gets goalside.
Pretty sure brayshaw was the sweeper who lost hoew. With good reason they weren't overly concerned with howe facing back to goal I50
 

Roby

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Pretty sure brayshaw was the sweeper who lost hoew. With good reason they weren't overly concerned with howe facing back to goal I50
There is no good reason to leave a player in a position to have a shot at goal.

Oliver was playing like a prima donna in that instance and just ball watching.
 

chopflop

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There is no good reason to leave a player in a position to have a shot at goal.

Oliver was playing like a prima donna in that instance and just ball watching.
Stoppage 1. Oliver starts goalside of omeara. Leaves omeara to cover the goal side of the stoppage. Omeara ball hunts in a non dangerous position i.e., boundary side with players between him and goal. It was brayshaw who doesn't squeeze up with howe?! Am I seeing things😎😎😎
 

rei154

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Jun 13, 2019
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You're not offering a request service because you've got NOTHING.

I already posted what is happening, and it's certainly not over committing at the ball. Structure is good.
Have you actually had a look at his posts or have you been too busy getting off to the notion of one-upping a random on the internet?
Heres a notion: you provide your own in-depth analysis of what's going on and use that to justify YOUR arguments instead of just sitting back and taking the piss out of people who do.
Even if you were right and it was only one or two occasions, that's one or two occasions in which we are clearly breaking structure and giving them an advantage which isn't something we would want to be tolerating.
 

Roby

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Have you actually had a look at his posts or have you been too busy getting off to the notion of one-upping a random on the internet?
Heres a notion: you provide your own in-depth analysis of what's going on and use that to justify YOUR arguments instead of just sitting back and taking the piss out of people who do.
Even if you were right and it was only one or two occasions, that's one or two occasions in which we are clearly breaking structure and giving them an advantage which isn't something we would want to be tolerating.
I have given an analysis. I've also analysed my own footage. Have you?

The point is very simple. I don't go selectively pick things that suit my argument. A good argument and analysis is able to see both sides and uses all the data, not just some.
 

rei154

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I have given an analysis. I've also analysed my own footage. Have you?

The point is very simple. I don't go selectively pick things that suit my argument. A good argument and analysis is able to see both sides and uses all the data, not just some.
Ok going on a similar argument from what you made before: show ALL your analysis and show your analysis of everything that backs your point as well as everything that goes against it.
 

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TazHawk15

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You watch one whole game - a round 1 flogging in which Finn was apparently playing a tagging role - and then write him off?
No I have read heaps of other things from Box Hill watchers and have seen him play a few times who have said the same thing, and a few snippets from coaching reports that he needs to work on a few things.

I was responding to a few posters who say “ Get Finn in”

Why do you think he does not even look like being named as an emergency?

Because the coaching staff think he is miles off it and are giving him some tagging roles ATM, which is exactly what I said.

Also exactly where did I mention anything about “writing him off”.

look at the reports of Ned Reeves when he first started and the reports on him now, it’s polar opposite.

All I said was that he looks a mile off it ATM, which is pretty much true.

We are all hoping that Finn becomes a gun for us but ATM he is well off it, which of course does not mean he won’t make it.
 
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Crankyhawk

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Gameplan is trash, we take eternity to get it inside 50. We end up kicking it high and long but we wait for the other teams defence to get set up. Might as well kick it high and long when the defence is scrambling and you have some space and 1 on 1s
This was not the case in first quarter, there was play on and speed. Why we didn’t continue was really unclear to me.
 

OnTheRocks

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Mar 11, 2016
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Kind of glad we didn't debut Reeves against Max as it could have caused some long term psychological scarring to get towled up by the best in the business on your first game.
Or it might not but we will never know.
We won't know, maybe we weren't brave enough to take the risk? Fortune favours the brave.
I would like to know Ned's mindset if a question asked was 'how do you feel about playing against Gawn this weekend?"
 

Simon Crawshay

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Or it might not but we will never know.
We won't know, maybe we weren't brave enough to take the risk? Fortune favours the brave.
I would like to know Ned's mindset if a question asked was 'how do you feel about playing against Gawn this weekend?"
I think Ned would definitely have been up for the challenge but the kind of form Max is in right now (he is leading the coaches votes) I just cant see any possible outcome were Ned would have walked away from that match without a major blow to his ego.

Lets face it Big Boy got totally toweled up but he had enough experience to at least compete around the ground (somewhat at least) and also he is used to getting smashed by big Maxie (as are most current AFL rucks to be honest)

I think the club did the right thing and should look to introduce Ned against a team with a less dominant ruck (or at least not the best ruckman of the modern age at the absolute peak of his powers anyway)
 

Roby

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Ok going on a similar argument from what you made before: show ALL your analysis and show your analysis of everything that backs your point as well as everything that goes against it.
When I'm at the ground I tend to watch what's happening off the ball rather the actual ball.

At stoppages I see our structure is pretty good and we must put a lot of work into it because we seem to do really well in that area despite not having a Dusty, Fyfe, Bont or Cripps side mid in there.

OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM is our forward line.

Our forwards don't lead out when they're supposed and then lead out when they're supposed to double back. They also get caught ball watching and don't adhere to forward structure and end up running into each other and not in a good way.

Not much our mids or any half backs can do if no option is presenting. We lack SPEED and NOUS in our front half. There is a serious disconnect from the midfield to the forward line. It mainly comes down to TWO things: personell and experience.

Unfortunately we tried to get Lynch but he decided differently. We lost Cyril which was probably our biggest loss in our club's history, even more than Jarman.

We just have to suffer as front half play improves over time or we find a gun forward.
 

Simon Crawshay

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When I'm at the ground I tend to watch what's happening off the ball rather the actual ball.

At stoppages I see our structure is pretty good and we must put a lot of work into it because we seem to do really well in that area despite not having a Dusty, Fyfe, Bont or Cripps side mid in there.

OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM is our forward line.

Our forwards don't lead out when they're supposed and then lead out when they're supposed to double back. They also get caught ball watching and don't adhere to forward structure and end up running into each other and not in a good way.

Not much our mids or any half backs can do if no option is presenting. We lack SPEED and NOUS in our front half. There is a serious disconnect from the midfield to the forward line. It mainly comes down to TWO things: personell and experience.

Unfortunately we tried to get Lynch but he decided differently. We lost Cyril which was probably our biggest loss in our club's history, even more than Jarman.

We just have to suffer as front half play improves over time or we find a gun forward.
Its a bit disturbing to me to see how shorthanded we are in the forward line and also the lack of cohesion down that end of the ground.

Compared to our backline which is going quite strongly (both tactically and personnel wise) we are an absolute dogs breakfast up forward (both structure and personnel wise)

I know the injury to Gunners and the whole Patton thing hasn't helped but we seem to have not planned very well at all for both strategy and personnel to that end of the ground.

I was just reading an article on AFL.com about how Simon Goodwin has headaches trying to fit so many in form players kicking goals into his forward line (Ben Brow, Sam Wiederman, Fritsch, etc) and I thought gee that must be a nice problem to have!

Whereas we are reduced to letting Connor Nash have his umpteenth bit of the cherry as a forward!

I put this down to the continued emphasis the coaching panel / recuritment team has placed on defense over offense which has really caught them out with the new rule changes which seems to favour more attacking / high scoring teams.
 

OnTheRocks

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I think Ned would definitely have been up for the challenge but the kind of form Max is in right now (he is leading the coaches votes) I just cant see any possible outcome were Ned would have walked away from that match without a major blow to his ego.

Lets face it Big Boy got totally toweled up but he had enough experience to at least compete around the ground (somewhat at least) and also he is used to getting smashed by big Maxie (as are most current AFL rucks to be honest)

I think the club did the right thing and should look to introduce Ned against a team with a less dominant ruck (or at least not the best ruckman of the modern age at the absolute peak of his powers anyway)
I don't know Ned so I'm unsure if it would be a blow to his ego or if it would steele his resolve?
I agree, Max is at his peak powers but sometimes even champs get defeated by unknowns. I'm not saying Ned would have beaten him, We know that Max has BB covered. To only have BB as our ruck all day seems to be conceding defeat in that area of the ground and gives their mids an advantage over ours.
Playing Ned might not have changed the result of the game and yes he most likely gets toweled up or maybe break even or does the unthinkable and beats him (what would that do to his ego?).
Regardless of the outcome if the coaches and players encourage him before, during (especially) and after the game, then perhaps the 'major blow to his ego' might just be null and void?
 

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