VFL Round 8 - Casey vs Collingwood at Casey Fields (Pies lose, 68 to 72)

[Gone Critical]

Everyones off the pk bandwagon

Would love to see him make it but was never really on the bandwagon. I suspect what a lot of people see as a guy not putting in enough and not wanting it enough is more likely a guy whose just not up to AFL speed. There are some players who never stand out massively at lower levels but can translate their game upwards without losing very much. There are some who look great at lower levels and the suspicion is they have a lot to offer but just can't make the step up to the higher grade.

I suspect PK is the latter group. He has had 5 seasons now and not a lot to show for it. He is probably just not AFL standard.

 

[Hardas]

Would love to see him make it but was never really on the bandwagon. I suspect what a lot of people see as a guy not putting in enough and not wanting it enough is more likely a guy whose just not up to AFL speed. There are some players who never stand out massively at lower levels but can translate their game upwards without losing very much. There are some who look great at lower levels and the suspicion is they have a lot to offer but just can't make the step up to the higher grade.

I suspect PK is the latter group. He has had 5 seasons now and not a lot to show for it. He is probably just not AFL standard.

Has he ever kicked anything like a bag at AFL level?

 

[pablo disco bar]

Has he ever kicked anything like a bag at AFL level?

Has he done anything

 

[Scodog10]

Again, said the other way round, by this time next year, if Reid is back and able to play at either end by then, presumably, and if Moore is getting time up forward,...

Why is there any need for that rider? Our KPF stocks are poo now and Moore isn't a defender. If we plan to make the move next year anyway why wait?? Make it now and be done with it...

 

[jackcass]

Pretty much exactly like his senior games this year Needs to learn to use his apparent ability effectively.

Agree, love the good stuff he does, just doesn't do enough in between. If he had Blair's application he'd be one of the top medium forwards in the league. I might set the bar high for him though because his best is sublime.

 

[Hardas]

Why is there any need for that rider? Our KPF stocks are poo now and Moore isn't a defender. If we plan to make the move next year anyway why wait?? Make it now and be done with it...

Plenty of young blokes spend a bit of time back before going forward - FWIW, I'd play him forward now.

 

[Hardas]

Has he done anything

Goal a game and not much else.

 

[jackcass]

Everyones off the pk bandwagon

Not me. Still think he can provide a point of difference to our senior forward structure. Way too talented not to be given every chance.

 

[jackcass]

I just don't understand why all of Marsh, Reid and Moore are being played back. Moore is a dour defender. What's the point in playing him there when we have all of Frost, Brown and Goldsack currently in the team?

Reid would potentially displace one of those three to begin with, and Marsh is very good developing depth. So we have 5 AFL standard tall defenders as it stands right now. Meanwhile, we have Cloke assisted by White with Gault as depth on the other end. And Moore is played back. Well, I hope it's just for development reasons and that he's released into the forward line sooner or later.

Reid back is reasonable given they're trying to get him back playing senior footy.

Moore preseason showed he could be a very creative rebounding defender, taking intercept marks and making long searching runs of HB. Since the VFL season proper you're right, he's returned to that dour defender mode, punching rather than marking and not too much rebound. I think it's a confidence thing and hopefully his time in defense will instill the confidence to go for his marks, back his athletic ability, and take the game on. Then I think he'd be ready to move forward.

Marsh again is An interesting one. He's one of the best intercept marks I've seen, and he scorches the turf with his run and carry. The knock on him remains his ball use but even that has improved. We less of the shank kick now, it's more the weighting of his kicks that lets him down. I'd love to see him trialled forward at VFL level now that we have Reid, Moore and Pendles down back. I think he can be exceptional there.

 

[sr36]

Why is there any need for that rider? Our KPF stocks are poo now and Moore isn't a defender. If we plan to make the move next year anyway why wait?? Make it now and be done with it...

With Moore, I'd suggest that he's not physically strong enough to play as a forward in the AFL, and won't be for a couple of years. Therefore, whilst his body is developing, the plan is to give him senior experience as a defender, as he has the attributes to play a similar role to what Goldsack is playing. The only problem is that with Moore, Scharenberg and Marsh, we've got them queuing up for this role.

 

[spartan-magpie]

Everyones off the pk bandwagon

Not I.

Still reckon PK has something to offer.

But looked slow and confused in his last game. I think he isn't understanding what he needs to do yet.

He needs to Play with some confidence and flair and stop looking like he is trying to do the team thing. Needs to do what comes instinctively.

 

[Hardas]

Not I.

Still reckon PK has something to offer.

But looked slow and confused in his last game. I think he isn't understanding what he needs to do yet.

He needs to Play with some confidence and flair and stop looking like he is trying to do the team thing. Needs to do what comes instinctively.

If he keeps at it, he'll likely get at least one more chance. I hope it's forward for a whole game, but at whose expense? It's him or Fas, isn't it?

 

[pablo disco bar]

Maybe if white gets injured or fasolo he comes in...I dunno o think his days are numbered to be honest

 

[spartan-magpie]

If he keeps at it, he'll likely get at least one more chance. I hope it's forward for a whole game, but at whose expense? It's him or Fas, isn't it?[ /QUOTE]

You're right. That will be his biggest dilemma and if fas does what he did last week for the rest of the season he becomes vital and unstoppable.

PK might be able to come in for your broomhead, de goey, or Blair types. Guys than haven't really cemented their spots in the team and apart from Blair will require to be rested at times.

If he gets another chance he needs to grab the bull by the horns and take the beast down.

 

[Hardas]

No doubt he needs to start making every post a winner.

 

[loki04]

Not me. Still think he can provide a point of difference to our senior forward structure. Way too talented not to be given every chance.

Pace, application and hardness are some major issues he needs to rectify or work around (smarts in place of pace) but the other 2 are things he mentally has to break through to push physically and hit in much harder when required.

 

[loki04]

With Moore, I'd suggest that he's not physically strong enough to play as a forward in the AFL, and won't be for a couple of years. Therefore, whilst his body is developing, the plan is to give him senior experience as a defender, as he has the attributes to play a similar role to what Goldsack is playing. The only problem is that with Moore, Scharenberg and Marsh, we've got them queuing up for this role.

Moores game he doesn't need physical strength as a fwd he should be playing like Tarrant 01. With long leads, repeat leads and using his 8s height, speed and athleticism to get his marks. He is not a Cloke or Rocca type so hope we dont try turn him into one.

Moore should be watching footage of Tazza 00 to 04 or Nick Reiwoldt 05 to present for what his game should become.

 

[sr36]

Moores game he doesn't need physical strength as a fwd he should be playing like Tarrant 01. With long leads, repeat leads and using his 8s height, speed and athleticism to get his marks. He is not a Cloke or Rocca type so hope we dont try turn him into one.

Moore should be watching footage of Tazza 00 to 04 or Nick Reiwoldt 05 to present for what his game should become.

I'd suggest that the Match Committee want to go with two target forwards and a ruckman up forward, they may not see a role for a 4th tall forward. If this is the case, he either plays as a long target, where he needs to be significantly stronger or he doesn't play in our forward line.

 

[Hardas]

Still, for couple of weeks, at some point, it would be great to see him get a taste:
Cloke, White, Moore, Elliott, Fasolo, Blair?

 

[jackcass]

Pace, application and hardness are some major issues he needs to rectify or work around (smarts in place of pace) but the other 2 are things he mentally has to break through to push physically and hit in much harder when required.

Not every player needs to be a battering ram. Pendles a classic case in point of a guy not blessed with pace or hardness but finds other ways to impact the game. PK is a very good mark and uses the footy exceptionally well. He's even done some clearance work on-ball and as a sweeper in defense. Biggest issue remains his fitness and that will need at least 1 more preseason to fix.

 

[loki04]

Not every player needs to be a battering ram. Pendles a classic case in point of a guy not blessed with pace or hardness but finds other ways to impact the game. PK is a very good mark and uses the footy exceptionally well. He's even done some clearance work on-ball and as a sweeper in defense. Biggest issue remains his fitness and that will need at least 1 more preseason to fix.

Its not about being a battering ram or expecting him to become Luke Ball , its about not being weak/meak in the contest and going when its required.

Not sure why everyone goes for extremes, even the outside types can have a dip when required. Hitting in to contest when you have the ability to effect the play by doing so rather then watching or being meakly brushed aside should be mandatory of all players.
I know players have roles to fill and some are to be outside to recieve the feed but there are times in games they are required to get their hands dirty and I noticed he was found spectating and a bit meak with his attack.

Both can be improved but after 5 years in it may well not be in him.

 

[Scodog10]

Moores game he doesn't need physical strength as a fwd he should be playing like Tarrant 01. With long leads, repeat leads and using his 8s height, speed and athleticism to get his marks. He is not a Cloke or Rocca type so hope we dont try turn him into one.

Moore should be watching footage of Tazza 00 to 04 or Nick Reiwoldt 05 to present for what his game should become.

Couldn't agree more. Seriously his bodies too slight? What about McBean, McCarthy, S White, McStay and Gault all of them have slight bodies at this point in their career yet their played forward because talent wins out. If it ultimately is a concern then leave him at VFL level until he's built it up enough.

It's just leaving me scratching my head when the majority understand that he has the attributes and nous to be a great forward yet we're watching him get 8 possessions a game as a KPD. I'll bleed if we make the move in 2016 and swing him forward because it'll be a season of development wasted just the same as Gault in 2013. What exactly did that year in defense teach him (aside from almost costing him his career)?

The club make a lot of good calls because they have access to information that allows them to look into the future, but I'm not seeing how this current one can prove beneficial.

 

[TradeDraft]

Moores game he doesn't need physical strength as a fwd he should be playing like Tarrant 01. With long leads, repeat leads and using his 8s height, speed and athleticism to get his marks. He is not a Cloke or Rocca type so hope we dont try turn him into one.

Moore should be watching footage of Tazza 00 to 04 or Nick Reiwoldt 05 to present for what his game should become.

He has to play as a Forward 1st before he can start thinking like that

 

[jackcass]

Its not about being a battering ram or expecting him to become Luke Ball , its about not being weak/meak in the contest and going when its required.

Not sure why everyone goes for extremes, even the outside types can have a dip when required. Hitting in to contest when you have the ability to effect the play by doing so rather then watching or being meakly brushed aside should be mandatory of all players.
I know players have roles to fill and some are to be outside to recieve the feed but there are times in games they are required to get their hands dirty and I noticed he was found spectating and a bit meak with his attack.

Both can be improved but after 5 years in it may well not be in him.

Watch his work when playing on ball and he does go when he has to, just isn't as instinctive as it is with some others so yes he can spectate but I don't see it as meakness. Probably what he learned at junior footy level and was never pushed to change at the Bears and he's battled injury since being at the Pies. Fasolo had the same issues and he seems to have overcome them.

 

[MagpieBat]

It's just leaving me scratching my head when the majority understand that he has the attributes and nous to be a great forward yet we're watching him get 8 possessions a game as a KPD. I'll bleed if we make the move in 2016 and swing him forward because it'll be a season of development wasted just the same as Gault in 2013. What exactly did that year in defense teach him (aside from almost costing him his career)?

That he is not the Simon Prestigiacomo of the VFL.