Review Semi final vs Hawthorn - Ugly, Historically Embarrassing and Pathetic

[thebirdman 24]

Something that stood out to me was Thithorpe pulling a face when they were lined up for the National Anthem.

I think he is a great player but I feel like that said alot about our mindset and how seriously we took things.

I remember this and thinking we could be off here. He had a good game though so probably nothing to it.

 

[Cromulant]

I remember this and thinking we could be off here. He had a good game though so probably nothing to it.

Worrell was laughing at times, it didnt bother him either.

Different things work for different players

 

[AFC979810]

Oh cmon, you don’t think their start had anything to do with ROB and clearances?

Goal 1 - Berry is a hack and held on giving away a free kick at the centre bounce. His opponent kicks inside 50 for a hawks goal.

Goal 2 - Berry is a hack and his opponent pushes him off and hunts the ball and kicks forward for a goal.

Goal 3 - Woz handballs out of bounds and its paid deliberate. Hawks up 3 goals to 0.

ROB not to blame.

Speaking of turnover scores, what did you think of his kick?

It was a shit kick. Brutal kick and cost us big time.

If you’re happy with blokes with the skill of 7 year olds in your team and who we are now stuck with for 3 years, can’t help you

Tell me more about clearances. Clearances don't bloody matter for us.

Don't you remember bitching and crying about clearances and how ROB had cost us in the 2 games we won against Collingwood/North. Then we won the clearances against Collingwood and still lost. There have been some bad takes on here - but you sit with Dr John on this take.

Our ball movement is our barometer- not clearances.

 

[KingCrom]

What did you think of Rob?

I know you didn't ask me, but I think he should be convicted of fraud. He takes 100s of thousands of dollars a year and he can't execute the simplest of kicks.

Nevermind being entirely uncompetitive in ruck contests and around the ground.

He might get a lot of hitouts, but they are of poor quality.

 

[jenny61_99]

I'm glad you find losing 2 home finals after being premier so funny and acceptable.

WTF? What gave you that impression?

 

[jenny61_99]

And if he recommends Nicks be sacked?

100% all for it.

 

[Trigger13]

He didnt get picked at 4 because of his disposal, plenty of Brownlow medallists havent got great disposal.

You saying hes not gonna make it is dumb

I said he’s not going to be a player of note. Is my guess based on what I’ve seen. How is that so far fetched. Or dumb?

Also, plenty of pick 4s haven’t made it.

Surely you can admit his lack of awareness is a concern? At least give me that

 

[Cromulant]

I said he’s not going to be a player of note. Is my guess based on what I’ve seen. How is that so far fetched. Or dumb?

Also, plenty of pick 4s haven’t made it.

Surely you can admit his lack of awareness is a concern? At least give me that

Nope I wont. Seen more than enough of him to know awareness hasnt been an issue for him before this season.

I'll absolutely give you the disposal, its not a strong suit. But im still picking him over Langford every day

 

[jenny61_99]

IF reputations are made in finals…
THEN only two players enhanced theirs: Worrell and Laird.
2 outta 24 players…can’t pin this on Nicks, despite his faults, this is a playing group failure

Playing group didn't choose to leave Keane on Gunston all night, or Berry on Newcombe for half a game.

 

[n4sir]

Hate to sink the boots in....

2016 crows could of got Sam Powell Pepper over Jordan Galluci.

2018 , Zak Butters or even Xavier Duursma was available.

2019, crows used that cursed pick 6 on Caleb Serong or Hayden Young. Crows chose Fisher Mcasey

Tell us something we don't know.

 

[Cromulant]

IF reputations are made in finals…
THEN only two players enhanced theirs: Worrell and Laird.
2 outta 24 players…can’t pin this on Nicks, despite his faults, this is a playing group failure

Thought Filthy was good last night, Curtin certainly didnt do much wrong either.

But yeah the rest weren't pretty

 

[Trigger13]

Nope I wont. Seen more than enough of him to know awareness hasnt been an issue for him before this season.

I'll absolutely give you the disposal, its not a strong suit. But im still picking him over Langford every day

Ok we’ll agree to disagree. I read somewhere Langford had the highest rated first season of any player in years. I can’t give you specifics, but Hoyne was banging on about it.

I will happily welcome the criticism from you if/when Draper makes me look silly.

 

[Moonwatcher]

I’ll get smashed for this. And I’m going very early…

Draper won’t be a player of any real note. What was the common denominator last night with Hawthorn: skill and good decisions.

Draper is an absolute panic merchant. Always has been. I’m broken record. And I know we can’t turn back time but we missed a trick by not grabbing Langford instead.

The signs are there.

 

[Scorpus]

It's concerning that after players experienced finals for the first time and learned what the standard is like, they immediately played even worse in the second final.

That's why I'm not convinced we actually gained much from this supposed "finals experience".

I think what we actually gained is a hit to our belief and mental demons that will appear next time

 

[George CantStandYa]

Goal 1 - Berry is a hack and held on giving away a free kick at the centre bounce. His opponent kicks inside 50 for a hawks goal.

Goal 2 - Berry is a hack and his opponent pushes him off and hunts the ball and kicks forward for a goal.

Goal 3 - Woz handballs out of bounds and its paid deliberate. Hawks up 3 goals to 0.

ROB not to blame.



It was a shit kick. Brutal kick and cost us big time.



Tell me more about clearances. Clearances don't bloody matter for us.

Don't you remember bitching and crying about clearances and how ROB had cost us in the 2 games we won against Collingwood/North. Then we won the clearances against Collingwood and still lost. There have been some bad takes on here - but you sit with Dr John on this take.

Our ball movement is our barometer- not clearances.

We have more than one issue, ball movement, clearances, it’s a long list. If we win clearances and move the ball well, are we giving our forwards a better chance of scoring, yes or no? If we lose clearances where does the ball end up if the other side moves it well?

Of course clearances are important. Had we not won clearances against Collingwood they would have smashed us.

It’s also important that your ruck can a) assist with your clearance work b) contribute around the ground and not be a liability with ball in hand. There was a piece of play last night when we were kicking to the hill end, can’t remember the player but ROB had metres on his opponent and we should have passed it to him, he was in clear site of the player who looked at him and went over his head, why? Because no one wants him to kick the ball, an AFL footballer has to have a level of skill and he has zero.

In terms of bad take, you’re in the minority with your defence of ROB.

 

[daniel_4tw]

It's concerning that after players experienced finals for the first time and learned what the standard is like, they immediately played even worse in the second final.

That's why I'm not convinced we actually gained much from this supposed "finals experience".

I think what we actually gained is a hit to our belief and mental demons that will appear next time

Agree.

I didn’t buy into the ‘finals experience’ originally, but after the Collingwood game thought maybe there was something to it. But after Hawks, the only thing we learnt was we’re not good enough.

If we beat Hawks then went down in a competitive bout in the prelim I think that would have been good experience. Getting smashed at home in 2 games? Don’t see how that helps us next year.

 

[The Karma Bus]

It's concerning that after players experienced finals for the first time and learned what the standard is like, they immediately played even worse in the second final.

That's why I'm not convinced we actually gained much from this supposed "finals experience".

I think what we actually gained is a hit to our belief and mental demons that will appear next time

It's also all that supporters, opposition supporters and players, media are going to go on about during the season.. and even more if we are in finals again. That Vic media will love making it a huge thing to try get in our heads.

We won't be able to just go into finals in a normal way with some clear air due to the size of this capitulation. If we were competitive and still lost both, not such a big deal would be made.
And our early signs of mental strength in this situation.. not good.

 

[Interloperer]

That's why I'm not convinced we actually gained much from this supposed "finals experience".

I definitely don't see how "Team with no/little finals experience" is worse than "Team full of proven failures in finals"

 

[CrowBloke]

I’m in favour of moving Nicks on. He’s taken us as far as he can, we need a different energy

Yeah, me too.

The players seem to have found a "comfort" level. The Senior players know that they'll be picked, regardless of game impact. The Juniors only get in on a pecking order basis, perforce by an incumbent's injury and if they have one bad game, outyago!

They lairise a bit against weaker sides, you know, fancy-shmancy kicks, lookaway and over-the-head handballs that are 50-50 at best.
If only we could bottle their energy and intent from the second Showdown and make them drink it pre-game.

That Crows side, playing 4 quarters, week after week, won't lose many games and could go top.
Not the mob we saw last 2 games.

 

[The Karma Bus]

That Luke Breust

22

Luke Breust

Age

35

Ht

182cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

4.8

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

1.8

5star

injury playing in the VFL.. wow.
About to retire and you get that to deal with now.

 

[AFC979810]

We have more than one issue, ball movement, clearances, it’s a long list. If we win clearances and move the ball well, are we giving our forwards a better chance of scoring, yes or no? If we lose clearances where does the ball end up if the other side moves it well?

Of course clearances are important. Had we not won clearances against Collingwood they would have smashed us.

Firstly those are stupid and loaded questions.

"If we win the clearances and then move the ball well."

"If we lose the clearances and the other team moves the ball well."

The 2nd part is important - the first part is irrelevant.

Our whole system was not built on dominating clearances. Blind Freddy who watches a few games could see this, but not old George.

We won the clearances in half of our losses. We lost the clearances in a bunch of important wins in the 2nd half of the season. (Coll, Hawks, Bulldogs) to finish the season.

There is zero correlation between our team winning the clearances and winning.

It’s also important that your ruck can a) assist with your clearance work b) contribute around the ground and not be a liability with ball in hand. There was a piece of play last night when we were kicking to the hill end, can’t remember the player but ROB had metres on his opponent and we should have passed it to him, he was in clear site of the player who looked at him and went over his head, why? Because no one wants him to kick the ball, an AFL footballer has to have a level of skill and he has zero.

In terms of bad take, you’re in the minority with your defence of ROB.

I dont think I am defending ROB as much as I am saying his importance is minimal.

You are like a dog at a bone with your bad takes. ROB is not a barometer of this side. We win when he plays shit, when he plays great, when we win clearances, when we lose clearances.

Of all the issues this club has - ROB is at the bottom.

I think you are just trying to double down because you were critical of the clubs list management position of ruckman which was proven to be 100% wrong.

 

[CrowBloke]

Not sure if inspiration explains everything, but I do know that listening to Nicks puts me in a coma.

Yeah; he's pleasant and affable (even if his selections and Game-play are often laffable ) but dull.

I don't think inspiration explains "everything".
There are too many factors/variables as well, but if I look at some of the Premiers since 2000, many had forceful and charismatic Coaches (often brilliant ex-players) and played inspired footy to win their Flag/s.
Brisbane's three-peat under genius Matthews; Hawthorn, too (Clarko, hard-nut and mentored other Premiership winning Coaches).
Fagan's Brisbane were hot.
McRae's Mugpies. Malthouse, too.
Geelong (Scott)
Richmond (Hardwick-the-grub)
Beveridge's Bulldogs streaked home on a tsunami of energy.

 

[AFC979810]

We have more than one issue, ball movement, clearances, it’s a long list. If we win clearances and move the ball well, are we giving our forwards a better chance of scoring, yes or no? If we lose clearances where does the ball end up if the other side moves it well?

Of course clearances are important. Had we not won clearances against Collingwood they would have smashed us.

It’s also important that your ruck can a) assist with your clearance work b) contribute around the ground and not be a liability with ball in hand. There was a piece of play last night when we were kicking to the hill end, can’t remember the player but ROB had metres on his opponent and we should have passed it to him, he was in clear site of the player who looked at him and went over his head, why? Because no one wants him to kick the ball, an AFL footballer has to have a level of skill and he has zero.

In terms of bad take, you’re in the minority with your defence of ROB.

And hang on. I showed how ROB had zero to do with our bad start. It was Berry and Woz that caused the hawks first 3 goals. Yet you completely ignore it - despite previously stating ROB was to blame for our poor start?!?!?

So poor.

 

[George CantStandYa]

Firstly those are stupid and loaded questions.

"If we win the clearances and then move the ball well."

"If we lose the clearances and the other team moves the ball well."

The 2nd part is important - the first part is irrelevant.

Our whole system was not built on dominating clearances. Blind Freddy who watches a few games could see this, but not old George.

We won the clearances in half of our losses. We lost the clearances in a bunch of important wins in the 2nd half of the season. (Coll, Hawks, Bulldogs) to finish the season.

There is zero correlation between our team winning the clearances and winning.



I dont think I am defending ROB as much as I am saying his importance is minimal.

You are like a dog at a bone with your bad takes. ROB is not a barometer of this side. We win when he plays shit, when he plays great, when we win clearances, when we lose clearances.

Of all the issues this club has - ROB is at the bottom.

I think you are just trying to double down because you were critical of the clubs list management position of ruckman which was proven to be 100% wrong.

So this system we have that doesn’t rely on clearances, how did it go in the finals? Maybe we should rely on clearances more. Now you skipped over it, had we not won clearances against Collingwood would they have smashed us?

As for ROB we are effectively playing one short, of course he’s a big issue. We’ve given him 3 years because we’ve ignored an area of our list and you’re the one who is doubling down on it because you’ve defended this shit list management, you have no choice but to downplay his role in our team.

 

[George CantStandYa]

And hang on. I showed how ROB had zero to do with our bad start. It was Berry and Woz that caused the hawks first 3 goals. Yet you completely ignore it - despite previously stating ROB was to blame for our poor start?!?!?

So poor.

I ignored it because we got smashed in clearances in the first quarter and he was our ruckman, it was such a stupid defence I felt embarrassed for you.