Roast So, when does Burgess start getting some scrutiny?

[Jack Foster]

See I would disagree with that. I'd say our ball movement offensively was the worst i've seen it since 2011.

You are right in that we don't push back hard enough, but the question is, is it because we can't or because we won't.

Is it possible this is similar to the overtraining we had mid 2014 and came good just before finals or is it 3 years of overtraining that will ruin us for the year?

So many players got pbs for 3km time trials. Are they good steady runners but not repeat hardcore sprinters? Did burgess change training because of the new rotation rules but got it wrong?

 

[OneGreatClub]

Is it possible this is similar to the overtraining we had mid 2014 and came good just before finals or is it 3 years of overtraining that will ruin us for the year?

So many players got pbs for 3km time trials. Are they good steady runners but not repeat hardcore sprinters? Did burgess change training because of the new rotation rules but got it wrong?

I guess by the end of this season we might have some idea.

 

[Port01]

So many players got pbs for 3km time trials. Are they good steady runners but not repeat hardcore sprinters? Did burgess change training because of the new rotation rules but got it wrong?

I watched a bit of Collingwood Melbourne after our game and Collingwood, who were getting spanked, still looked like they had spark and agression, could make contests, could get separation on leads.

Whether it is fitness or desperation or a combination of both, I don't know. You look lazy when you have confidence in your teammates to win a contest and they don't. You look lazy when you can't chase or get near an opponent. But even with the ball we have no explosiveness, so we end up long bombing to contests.

Don't remember once this year us hitting a leading forward who had a yard or two on a defender. Even lazy players light up when there is a chance of a goal and a bit of glory.

We have won 5 quarters out of 16 this year. 3 were against Essendon.

 

[johnnysix]

How do you measure if a player is giving their all? Do the guys wear heart rate monitors? I know they have GPS data. Are they covering as much ground? If they are covering the same ground as when we were firing then you'd have to question the game plan.

 

[johnnysix]

I watched a bit of Collingwood Melbourne after our game and Collingwood, who were getting spanked, still looked like they had spark and agression, could make contests, could get separation on leads.

Whether it is fitness or desperation or a combination of both, I don't know. You look lazy when you have confidence in your teammates to win a contest and they don't. You look lazy when you can't chase or get near an opponent. But even with the ball we have no explosiveness, so we end up long bombing to contests.

Don't remember once this year us hitting a leading forward who had a yard or two on a defender. Even lazy players light up when there is a chance of a goal and a bit of glory.

We have won 5 quarters out of 16 this year. 3 were against Essendon.

This. Exactly this. I watch other teams loose and they still make a contest. They still look like they're trying. Whether that's intent or game plan I'm not sure. I have a feeling the game plan we are playing makes us look worse because how we are zoning off. I dont like it. Go back to one on one and just beat your opponent.

 

[Macca19]

How do you measure if a player is giving their all? Do the guys wear heart rate monitors? I know they have GPS data. Are they covering as much ground? If they are covering the same ground as when we were firing then you'd have to question the game plan.

The GPS data is able to differentiate between different levels of movement - stationery, jogging, running, sprinting, so they would certainly have an idea physically of whats going on.

The club would also know what each players limit is in terms of km per game.

 

[johnnysix]

The GPS data is able to differentiate between different levels of movement - stationery, jogging, running, sprinting, so they would certainly have an idea physically of whats going on.

Yeah. I'd love to know. The fitness side of things also relates to injuries. You look at Boak this season and you have to say if he's not injured then something is seriously wrong. Even when Boak isn't great, he's usually still getting to the ball a bit, it's just his reckless disposal that can hurt. This year I haven't even seen him around the ball. There has to be something up. If it's not fitness related it has to be mental. Maybe the scuttlebutt about disharmony is true?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Yeah. I'd love to know. The fitness side of things also relates to injuries. You look at Boak this season and you have to say if he's not injured then something is seriously wrong. Even when Boak isn't great, he's usually still getting to the ball a bit, it's just his reckless disposal that can hurt. This year I haven't even seen him around the ball. There has to be something up. If it's not fitness related it has to be mental. Maybe the scuttlebutt about disharmony is true?

They have started putting the info up on the screen at AO late in the third quarter or early in the last and put up the 3 players who have run the most and the 3 players who have the highest velocity ie speed recorded by the GPS system.

 

[Steve Dore]

..... sleep pods/flotation pods aren't some miraculous cure. ......

I float (in a sensory deprivation pod) most Saturday mornings and I still have trouble running out of sight on a dark night.

 

[Macca19]

To see someone like Ebert struggling to raise a gallop, someone who is noted league wide as one of the fittest and hardest runners in the whole league says to me that something is up physically with this group. Even when Brad has played poorly the last couple of years, he's still run like a mad man. Now he can't even do that.

It's like the entire midfield group is suffering from OP and can't run.

 

[Jonts]

To see someone like Ebert struggling to raise a gallop, someone who is noted league wide as one of the fittest and hardest runners in the whole league says to me that something is up physically with this group. Even when Brad has played poorly the last couple of years, he's still run like a mad man. Now he can't even do that.

It's like the entire midfield group is suffering from OP and can't run.

Surprise

The whole midfield is actually suffering from a rare form of contagious OP

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

To see someone like Ebert struggling to raise a gallop, someone who is noted league wide as one of the fittest and hardest runners in the whole league says to me that something is up physically with this group. Even when Brad has played poorly the last couple of years, he's still run like a mad man. Now he can't even do that.

It's like the entire midfield group is suffering from OP and can't run.

Might have to give Ebo and Burgess a pass on his effort on Sunday. From the Vale Trevor Bubbles Obst thread he lost grandma before the game.

I have just read that Lorraine, the wife of "Bubbles" passed away yesterday. I wonder if this was the reason for the black armbands.

 

[rubberman]

A lot of useless running has been caused by turnovers.

 

[I Dont Care]

To see someone like Ebert struggling to raise a gallop, someone who is noted league wide as one of the fittest and hardest runners in the whole league says to me that something is up physically with this group. Even when Brad has played poorly the last couple of years, he's still run like a mad man. Now he can't even do that.

It's like the entire midfield group is suffering from OP and can't run.

It's the brain that tells you to run. We know they are fit, the will is not there. As I wrote in another thread somewhere, players were receiving the ball, and for a split second were motionless as if deciding what to do. This I witnessed several times by several players and have done since round 1. Of course by then they would be set upon/tackled. In 2014, players would already be in motion before they received the ball, because they knew what they were doing, they were drilled. It doesn't take rocket science to work out this is between the ears. And to affect the whole group, means the problem lies at the top

 

[finbarr]

The GPS data is able to differentiate between different levels of movement - stationery, jogging, running, sprinting, so they would certainly have an idea physically of whats going on.

The club would also know what each players limit is in terms of km per game.

Cycling has been using power meters that use strain gauges to precisely measure a rider's power output or torque appled for years. There wouldn't be a rider in the pro peloton who doesn't use one when training or in competition. I understand there's been a runners version of a power meter on the market for a year or so. I'd be interested to know if we or any other club is using them.

 

[Jonts]

GPS Data is able to tell how fast you're going at every single moment, we wouldn't need a power meter

 

[SgtSchulz]

God I hope we are in the heavy training period during the soft part of our draw...

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Start winning some ball in the middle and see how gassed we looked.

Chase ****ing gurnseys all day with shit turnovers and losing clearances all day and what do we expect!

Without real data it's hard to know, looks can be deceiving.

 

[Robbie4PM]

We did run our round 1 very well but yes we do look awfully slow this year. I think people forget though people like wines, robbie gray and Sam gray have never been quick. Chuck in toump he looks like he'd struggle to break 15 over 100m. Pittard is the only one wit genuine speed in our back line. Yes we look slower but I don't think the current 22 have ever been fast either.

I think it's nice to have a scapegoat but we have so many issues. Attitude, disposal, tactics. About everything that could be wrong is wrong at the moment, wouldn't blame burgess

 

[Robbie4PM]

Last year I had a lecture done by the guy who does the analysis of the running data of the port players. They have basically just got a speed tracker and something they do look at a fair bit is number of maximal efforts in a game. They obviously get top speed too etc. If someone isn't working as hard as last year or if they are slower this year they'd know.

I've also never really understood the obsession with a 3k or 2k time trial as a measure of fitness for football. Most positions on the.park require multiple maximal efforts then maybe a jog and being able to do that over anD over. A 3km time trial is a completely different type of fitness.

 

[Jonts]

A 3k time trial is just an easy measuring stick to see if someone kinda stayed with their off season program

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Ken on 5AA last night
"We are not strong enough, be that physical, mental or based on talent. We are not delivering to what is expected in the AFL."

Burgo why after 3.5 years back at the club are we not physically strong enough to be delivering what is expected in the AFL? What is Mladen, Mackers, You and others doing to not make them physically strong enough?? Sure we had 6 of our best 22 out (inc Ryder and Monfries) but why does a side that has 15 or 16 players with less than 5 years AFL experience physically bigger and stronger than us?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Ken again on 5AA.
"We are not strong enough inside the contest - that is way below AFL standard. In the midfield we have enough to get it done, but we don't have enough doing it hard enough."

 

[I Dont Care]

Ken again on 5AA.
"We are not strong enough inside the contest - that is way below AFL standard. In the midfield we have enough to get it done, but we don't have enough doing it hard enough."

Mind boggling

 

[bringbackbucky]

Ken on 5AA last night
"We are not strong enough, be that physical, mental or based on talent. We are not delivering to what is expected in the AFL."

Burgo why after 3.5 years back at the club are we not physically strong enough to be delivering what is expected in the AFL? What is Mladen, Mackers, You and others doing to not make them physically strong enough?? Sure we had 6 of our best 22 out (inc Ryder and Monfries) but why does a side that has 15 or 16 players with less than 5 years AFL experience physically bigger and stronger than us?

But he's got a PHD...