Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[mcgrath_truther]

So, like Essendon lol? Birds of a feather.

still doesn't answer my question mate, what went wrong today.

no injuries to key players, no jake leaver to dismantle your forward line, all these stars like... paddy dow, coming in to tear the game apart.

i'm curious - i only saw the last quarter and the dead time goals made an embarrassing result less so

 

[Freomaniac]

Spot on.

It’s so predictable the “Ross doesn’t have the cattle” bleating that has started recently.

It’s pure deflection.

And, I make no bones about this, if Ross is allowed to convince people we need a full re-build, our club is at serious risk of folding.

Ross Lyon and his prehistoric methods simply can’t develop players for the modern game where skill execution is paramount.

You simply couldn’t choose a worse coach to develop modern footy players.

Sadly though, there are many Saints fans who are in lock step with the president in thinking Ross is some sort of messiah and guru.

It’s not much better than a cult at this stage.

I disagree with that.

Dockers 2022 side that won an elim final was built on from drafting kids from the 2016, 2017 and 2018 drafts. Some of THose blokes in those years were developed under Ross Lyon

 

[littlecreatures]

still doesn't answer my question mate, what went wrong today.

no injuries to key players, no jake leaver to dismantle your forward line, all these stars like... paddy dow, coming in to tear the game apart.

i'm curious - i only saw the last quarter and the dead time goals made an embarrassing result less so

Your comment didn’t have a question. Here it is below. So back to the point, bit rich coming from an Essendon supporter:

“it's like watching a car crash video - entertaining and you can't look away.

that's st kilda, every year”

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Entire game plan is trying to stop the opposition score. Cannot score themselves. Average less than 2 goals a quarter for the last month.

The ball movement is VFL standard.

Im here live and there are very few saints fans. About ten sad depressed folk in the cheer squad.

Lyon is a disaster

What's worse, is that they can't actually stop the opposition from scoring either now.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Saints rapidly starting to smell like North. Both clubs have zero attractiveness. No player of note will up stumps and move to either club.

Henry like Taranto and Hopper suddenly realises he's made a wrong move

I've been harsh on St Kilda, but your point is a big problem for the AFL.

Equalisation doesn't work.

The Draft takes years to have an effect and doesn't come with any guarantees. And 1 gun kid isn't enough to turn you from a bottom 2 team into a top 4 team. And like Horne-Francis and a bunch of GWS' and Suns' kids - they can just leave after a year or two anyway.

Putting a gun kid in a decent team can make a significant difference quickly to both the player and the team - but putting a gun kid in a rubbish team with no good senior leaders generally does f**k all for the team in terms of their performance, and can be detrimental to the kid's development.

In theory the Draft is great, but in reality it isn't a fix.


But that's not the biggest issue. The biggest issue is that the AFL have created a carrot more important than money. And that is the 'blockbuster' game.

Aside from going home to Geelong or an 'interstate' team - every decent player that hits the market selects either Essendon, Richmond or Collingwood as their club of choice.

The reason they give, every time, and all they can talk about once they join, is playing in big games in front of big crowds. ANZAC Day, Dreamtime at the G, etc.

Melbourne and Carlton can also use this as a carrot.

North, Bulldogs and St. Kilda don't get this.

The 'war chest' is a myth. We've seen that. It doesn't work. The Draft doesn't work.

Until gun players start choosing to go and play for St Kilda or North or the Bulldogs, they're going to continue to suck. Meanwhile, the big clubs that get the blockbuster games get stronger and stronger.

As a general sports fan with no skin in the game, I couldn't really give a shit if the small clubs suck - but for the AFL it's going to be hard to have a 19 team comp if 4-5 teams are perennial losers.

 

[RAPPA]

Lyon and Clarkson should not be allowed near football clubs

 

[WillHayward]

Take Heeney Mills and Blakey pretty handy

Are you dumb?

We spent high picks on them.

 

[Pistol Night]

Lyon and Clarkson should not be allowed near football clubs

I was disappointed when Clarkson turned us down and we appointed McRae. Just shows the saviour coach theory is false

 

[Rich01]

I've been harsh on St Kilda, but your point is a big problem for the AFL.

Equalisation doesn't work.

The Draft takes years to have an effect and doesn't come with any guarantees. And 1 gun kid isn't enough to turn you from a bottom 2 team into a top 4 team. And like Horne-Francis and a bunch of GWS' and Suns' kids - they can just leave after a year or two anyway.

Putting a gun kid in a decent team can make a significant difference quickly to both the player and the team - but putting a gun kid in a rubbish team with no good senior leaders generally does f**k all for the team in terms of their performance, and can be detrimental to the kid's development.

In theory the Draft is great, but in reality it isn't a fix.


But that's not the biggest issue. The biggest issue is that the AFL have created a carrot more important than money. And that is the 'blockbuster' game.

Aside from going home to Geelong or an 'interstate' team - every decent player that hits the market selects either Essendon, Richmond or Collingwood as their club of choice.

The reason they give, every time, and all they can talk about once they join, is playing in big games in front of big crowds. ANZAC Day, Dreamtime at the G, etc.

Melbourne and Carlton can also use this as a carrot.

North, Bulldogs and St. Kilda don't get this.

The 'war chest' is a myth. We've seen that. It doesn't work. The Draft doesn't work.

Until gun players start choosing to go and play for St Kilda or North or the Bulldogs, they're going to continue to suck. Meanwhile, the big clubs that get the blockbuster games get stronger and stronger.

As a general sports fan with no skin in the game, I couldn't really give a shit if the small clubs suck - but for the AFL it's going to be hard to have a 19 team comp if 4-5 teams are perennial losers.

Disagree.
These clubs suck because the off field leadership has been extremely poor.

And reality is we are only really talking about a couple of clubs.

North have been a basket case off field for the good part of ten years, and this can be traced back to the Brayshaw administration. After fighting off relocation, they were happy just to be, rather than focus on building long term success through financial stability off the field. Their inability to bring free agents to the club was purely because those in charge couldn’t create a place to work that was appealing compared to others in the market. And the state of their list is due to their poor development and recruiting - I don’t think one North supporter would disagree that they haven’t had the right support in this area for a long time.


Same deal with the Saints. They were a glorious side in the late 2010s but because Ross Lyon built a dictatorship, once he left, the structures around him failed. This is the risk with RTB coming back. Any success for the club right now he will bring. But the club needs to be bigger than one person.

The Prez is trying to build the club to stand for and appeal to Batside Melbourne players. If they can do this, it will become a club of choice for many footballers in the area. But they have to lay true roots down in the community to do so, not just pay it lip service.

As for other clubs that haven’t been successful in the last 20 odd years, it’s easy to trace this back to poor management and lack of vision. And likewise when looking at the ones that have had success.

And just a comment on Tom Morris last night stating that the saints should be open to trading all but two players, what a clown.

 

[Pusswah]

Restump, rewire, replumb.

 

[WillHayward]

Ross is actually a really dumb guy

Having an ego and being confident is one thing. Which he has.

Being a thick, stupid, dumb ,thug, social climber is who he really is.

He's a snake oil guy.

I dare you to believe

 

[Holden Megroin]

Are you dumb?

We spent high picks on them.

You didn't have high picks to get them though. Thats the point.

 

[RAPPA]

I was disappointed when Clarkson turned us down and we appointed McRae. Just shows the saviour coach theory is false

Carlton was the most recent and best example of it being a sham.

 

[Pistol Night]

yeah, but i posed it already and all the aints supporters are yet to answer!

Probably because they are frustrated and disillusioned with another wasted year. No need to flog them with a piece of bong hose because you guys are less shit for once

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Disagree.
These clubs suck because the off field leadership has been extremely poor.

And reality is we are only really talking about a couple of clubs.

North have been a basket case off field for the good part of ten years, and this can be traced back to the Brayshaw administration. After fighting off relocation, they were happy just to be, rather than focus on building long term success through financial stability off the field. Their inability to bring free agents to the club was purely because those in charge couldn’t create a place to work that was appealing compared to others in the market. And the state of their list is due to their poor development and recruiting - I don’t think one North supporter would disagree that they haven’t had the right support in this area for a long time.


Same deal with the Saints. They were a glorious side in the late 2010s but because Ross Lyon built a dictatorship, once he left, the structures around him failed. This is the risk with RTB coming back. Any success for the club right now he will bring. But the club needs to be bigger than one person.

The Prez is trying to build the club to stand for and appeal to Batside Melbourne players. If they can do this, it will become a club of choice for many footballers in the area. But they have to lay true roots down in the community to do so, not just pay it lip service.

As for other clubs that haven’t been successful in the last 20 odd years, it’s easy to trace this back to poor management and lack of vision. And likewise when looking at the ones that have had success.

And just a comment on Tom Morris last night stating that the saints should be open to trading all but two players, what a clown.

Question though...how can a club like Essendon that hasn't been remotely close to being successful for a decade still get blockbuster fixtures? And how have they still been able to lure the best free agents?

 

[Rich01]

Question though...how can a club like Essendon that hasn't been remotely close to being successful for a decade still get blockbuster fixtures? And how have they still been able to lure the best free agents?

Who comprises of this plethora of free agents you speak of?

 

[mcgrath_truther]

Probably because they are frustrated and disillusioned with another wasted year. No need to flog them with a piece of bong hose because you guys are less shit for once

i still think essendon is bad, we're in form, sure, but we can't put away the dumpster fire sides like everyone else does.

i'm just curious!

 

[Great8]

Who comprises of this plethora of free agents you speak of?

Yes, who are all these top end FA’s you speak of?
McKay obviously but North couldn’t push him out the door fast enough. Our other acquisitions have come via trading

 

[Rich01]

Ross is actually a really dumb guy

Having an ego and being confident is one thing. Which he has.

Being a thick, stupid, dumb ,thug, social climber is who he really is.

He's a snake oil guy.

I dare you to believe

Whether he brings success or failure, he carries massive risk to the club. With him bringing in his own yes men, if he leaves the club needs to rebuild everything from the bottom up, leaving them in a hole for 5-10 years.

His appointment was the easy and lazy approach to building the club, and there is a lot of work for the club to do again when he eventually departs. Work that should have been done prior or during his appointment.

 

[Rob R]

They’re our only chance to lose the record for longest premiership drought.

Just need them to stay in no mans land for another 15 years or so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pretty well guaranteed - they won't win while RTB is in charge and clubs take a long time to recover from his coaching.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Who comprises of this plethora of free agents you speak of?

McKay left North.
Goldstein left North.
Shiel chose Essendon over St Kilda and North.
Devon Smith chose Essendon over St Kilda.
Caldwell chose Essendon over St Kilda.
Laverde turned down at Kilda to stay at Essendon.
Draper turned down St Kilda to stay at Essendon.
Hill chose Essendon (but Dodoro couldn't close the deal with GWS)


I'm sure there's more.

 

[Pistol Night]

McKay left North.
Goldstein left North.
Shiel chose Essendon over St Kilda and North.
Devon Smith chose Essendon over St Kilda.
Caldwell chose Essendon over St Kilda.
Laverde turned down at Kilda to stay at Essendon.
Draper turned down St Kilda to stay at Essendon.
Hill chose Essendon (but Dodoro couldn't close the deal with GWS)


I'm sure there's more.

Not really much different to a lot off clubs. Essendon are a big club regardless of recent history

 

[Pistol Night]

Pretty well guaranteed - they won't win while RTB is in charge and clubs take a long time to recover from his coaching.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

If only they knew this before..

 

[MisterMarcus]

I was actually at the game yesterday. I really struggled to understand what the Saints' game plan actually was - there seemed to be almost no cohesion between the defence, mids, and forwards.

I've seen other 'bad' teams where the skill and decision making was poor, but I could at least see what they were TRYING to do. "Okay so they're going to run and carry and play fast on the break...oh God they've turned it over again and the opposition gets an easy goal....well at least they were taking the game on...", kind of thing.

I just found it hard to do that with the Saints. You've got forwards one-out screaming for it, and your first instinct is to turn sideways and do dinky little 15m passes and let your opponents all flood back. Then blindly bomb it inside 50 and expect King to outmark 5 guys at once? What's the plan here, guys?

 

[Rich01]

McKay left North.
Goldstein left North.
Shiel chose Essendon over St Kilda and North.
Devon Smith chose Essendon over St Kilda.
Caldwell chose Essendon over St Kilda.
Laverde turned down at Kilda to stay at Essendon.
Draper turned down St Kilda to stay at Essendon.
Hill chose Essendon (but Dodoro couldn't close the deal with GWS)


I'm sure there's more.

Wait so you are talking about trades now?
I thought you were only mentioning free agents.

Hmm let me think.

For St Kilda…Higgins, Jones, Crouch, Steele, Hill, Stocker, Dow, Butler, Bonner, Membrey, Wood.

For North… Greenwood, Stephenson, Corr, Tucker, Shiels, Fisher, Logue, Stephens, CCJ, Nyuon.

And you are really clutching at straws now to look at who chose to stay.

Let’s add Sheezel and Larkeys long term commitment to the club to show what’s all good there eh?