Stephen Silvagni and Carlton

[Pacman Carney]

If he was allowed to pick his son, which i highly doubt he would have been involved in. Then Carlton have massive governance issues.

its been said on many occasions that he excuses himself from ALL discussions involving his son(s) im sure this is true.
paul brodie must then decide. good luck with that.

 

[Bazz_27]

Almost every expert has a glowing endorsement of our list.. Which is why only having 1 win is unacceptable and Bolton had to go.. The list is fine, and every available coach will be lining up to take on the list. What SOS has done has been very good, sure there are some misses but overwhelmingly over the past 3 years we have got them right.

Missing an experienced free agent target like Dylan Shiel is probably SOS only real failure.

SOS is that you?

 

[Xtreme]

Almost every expert has a glowing endorsement of our list.. Which is why only having 1 win is unacceptable and Bolton had to go.. The list is fine, and every available coach will be lining up to take on the list. What SOS has done has been very good, sure there are some misses but overwhelmingly over the past 3 years we have got them right.

Missing an experienced free agent target like Dylan Shiel is probably SOS only real failure.

I'll be flabbergasted if Carlton finish higher than 18th over the next 10 years.

 

[The Final Word]

If he was allowed to pick his son, which i highly doubt he would have been involved in. Then Carlton have massive governance issues.

I think they wrote the book on this.

 

[wagstaff]

No way they trade that pick if they thought it was going to be pick 1. It’s about not knowing where their club was still at while everyone else still had them in the bottom couple of teams. You don’t trade pick 1 for pick 19 and pick 8-12.

This is perhaps part of the reason they removed Bolton now, so they can blame the cost of that trade on the coach not having his team perform to expectations than the trade itself being misjudged by Silvagni.

 

[SickQwon]

Almost every expert has a glowing endorsement of our list.. Which is why only having 1 win is unacceptable and Bolton had to go.. The list is fine, and every available coach will be lining up to take on the list. What SOS has done has been very good, sure there are some misses but overwhelmingly over the past 3 years we have got them right.

Missing an experienced free agent target like Dylan Shiel is probably SOS only real failure.

I think the refusal to deviate from the rebuild plan hasn't worked in his favour. Obviously Carlton are building for the long term but the idea that mature bodies wont be looked at seriously until year 4 has inadvertently thrown Bolton under the bus. It makes sense to bring in youth first so by the time mature foot soldiers come in the draftees have become established players. However, it hasn't worked in reality because the player development looks stunted.

 

[Harlequin Dream]

Since 2015 I don't think there has been a player drafted after pick 30 that looks like they would play 150 games. Massive problems with identifying speculative talent and developing that talent.

If the same players were drafted to Hawthorn or Geelong I suspect there might have been more success stories. Therefore, the picks are only half the equation but it is hard to imagine that the selection process is satisfactory.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Re-writing history there. Sure you don't become a premiership threat over night, but wouldn't there be an obvious progression if Carlton's recruiting was following in Richmond's footsteps.

Hardwick's first four seasons
2010 - 6 wins
2011 - 8.5 wins
2012 - 10.5 wins
2013 - 15 wins

Ideally yes. But it doesn’t have to be linear.

Realistically I’d want to be coming from more than 2 wins but it doesn’t mean we can’t. Our core if it develops how we’d hope is still years away from being in their prime.

 

[Socrates2]

The bottom line is that SOS recruited young players when there was gaping hole in the list of 23 to 28 years old.
He then overated the list, thinking the Blues could make the finals. He also gave away pick 1 in the draft for about pick 11 and Liam Stocker.Stocker might become a regular AFL player still, but he's not going to be a superstar like pick one might be.

 

[Socrates2]

This comment from SOS after the draft sums up how badly he read the situation, **But Blues list manager Stephen Silvagni was confident about the deal when quizzed about it after the draft, asking reporters "What happens if we finish higher than them?" after discussion about the possible gap between the picks. ***

 

[OniAu]

Its like he is playing one of those Soccer management games. Just doing the cheats way of drafting youth and getting rid of all the aged players.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

70,000 crow supporters Luv SoS.

 

[mcgarnacle]

The bottom line is that SOS recruited young players when there was gaping hole in the list of 23 to 28 years old.
He then overated the list, thinking the Blues could make the finals. He also gave away pick 1 in the draft for about pick 11 and Liam Stocker.Stocker might become a regular AFL player still, but he's not going to be a superstar like pick one might be.

he's basically approached it the same way as he did at Giants........but without the 30 first round draft picks to play with.

maybe he doesn't know any other way

 

[OniAu]

Yikes. I wonder if there's an equivalent video of the Adelaide booth falling over themselves to take the deal.

The damning part for me is the way that they keep reassuring themselves, "We rate this kid at pick 6." That's an alarmingly dumb view of market dynamics (or else desperation). Because even if they're geniuses and correctly value Stocker at Pick 6 while no-one else does, while also correctly predicting that the Blues will rise up the ladder and make their 2019 first-rounder less valuable, that still doesn't justify overpaying the market rate.

It's like I have a diamond and I want to swap it for a tomato because I really like tomatoes and don't rate diamonds. I can make that trade and feel like I came out ahead, but the correct move is first to swap my diamond for what other people think it's worth ($$$), then pay what other people think the tomato is worth ($), giving me the tomato + $$ left over.

I think you need to have a discussion with SOS about tomatoes and diamonds. He doesn't have a clue

He was so cringey in the video, so eagerly wanting it no matter what. Didn't logically think through the worst case scenario of the 2019 season. Incredibly amateur for such a high power position at a football club

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Since 2015 I don't think there has been a player drafted after pick 30 that looks like they would play 150 games. Massive problems with identifying speculative talent and developing that talent.

If the same players were drafted to Hawthorn or Geelong I suspect there might have been more success stories. Therefore, the picks are only half the equation but it is hard to imagine that the selection process is satisfactory.

This has nothing to do with identifying talent.. A player like Tim Kelly for example, came into the draft as a risk.. In Carltons position we could not afford that risk but a club like Geelong can have the gamble knowing that if it doesnt work its no big deal.. With such a young list you can not throw a player with that sort of baggage into the group. Additionally the reason the late picks works at Hawks, Geelong is because of the senior players around them... Those same players put into the Carlton side would end up completely different if put into the Carlton side.


However since 2015 we have taken Michael Gibbons as a rookie and he looks okay, Tom De Konig a ruckmen that has shown a bit, Tom Williamson who could be anything but be crueled by a back injury, Zac Fisher at pick 27 who will def play 150 games and Jack Silvagni who is a good foot soldier and if it wasnt for his name would not receive anywhere near the criticism he cops.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

The bottom line is that SOS recruited young players when there was gaping hole in the list of 23 to 28 years old.
He then overated the list, thinking the Blues could make the finals. He also gave away pick 1 in the draft for about pick 11 and Liam Stocker.Stocker might become a regular AFL player still, but he's not going to be a superstar like pick one might be.

Giving up our first is more about the list age profile and understanding an 18 yo kid in 2020 is not going to help us.. We will almost certainly trade that pick and i would be surprised if the target is not already lined up and a deal for a first round pick agreed..

 

[Bazz_27]

This has nothing to do with identifying talent.. A player like Tim Kelly for example, came into the draft as a risk.. In Carltons position we could not afford that risk but a club like Geelong can have the gamble knowing that if it doesnt work its no big deal.. With such a young list you can not throw a player with that sort of baggage into the group. Additionally the reason the late picks works at Hawks, Geelong is because of the senior players around them... Those same players put into the Carlton side would end up completely different if put into the Carlton side.


However since 2015 we have taken Michael Gibbons as a rookie and he looks okay, Tom De Konig a ruckmen that has shown a bit, Tom Williamson who could be anything but be crueled by a back injury, Zac Fisher at pick 27 who will def play 150 games and Jack Silvagni who is a good foot soldier and if it wasnt for his name would not receive anywhere near the criticism he cops.

Just have a look at the players you are using to defend your argument... wow. Fisher can go a bit I'll give you that, jury is out on the rest.

 

[Socrates2]

The way SOS ranked Liam Stocker as pick 6 is also damning. In reality he was probably only a top 20 pick.
I put the following players in the draft ahead of him,Rozee, Rankine, Duursma, Butters, Max King, Stack, Bailey Smith, Hately, Lukosius, Tarryn Thomas, Jack Ross, Mathew Parker, Mardy Hore, Ben King and Jye Caldwell.

 

[chunkylover53]

Richmond place no value on list spots. Look at the spuds they’ve bought in since Hardwick was hired.


Farmer
Dea
Morris
Maric
Morton
Chaplin
Knights
Graham
Edwards
White
Hampson
Lloyd
Miles
Thomas
Banfield
Hunt
Townsend
Yarran

Let’s not forget their botched first rounders too
Conca
B Ellis
Lennon

Horrible recruitment.

Great you picked D Martin. So did the Herald Sun draft expert.

How many good trades, diamonds in the rough do they find?

The whole picking up delisted/unrestricted FA for cheap is laughable

EFA.

Honestly such truly pathetic analysis going on here.

Every club picks up crap players to fill a list spot, let alone one completely cutting its list like Carlton have.

It’s funny – everyone says we went too young and didn’t bring in any mature players, the same sentence they say we bought in too many mature players and don’t value list spots.

**** me dead, there are what - 44 players on a list? Of the list of players you put, 15 of them were completely useless. Considering there’s been 54 changes to the list in 4 years and 15 of them haven’t served a purpose in the senior side, that’s a 73% hit rate for SOS. Yeah what an absolute ****ing failure, much spuds, gws rejects herp de derp.

Do people research before they form an opinion or just read shit like the Herald Sun?

 

[The Final Word]

This has nothing to do with identifying talent.. A player like Tim Kelly for example, came into the draft as a risk.. In Carltons position we could not afford that risk but a club like Geelong can have the gamble knowing that if it doesnt work its no big deal.. With such a young list you can not throw a player with that sort of baggage into the group. Additionally the reason the late picks works at Hawks, Geelong is because of the senior players around them... Those same players put into the Carlton side would end up completely different if put into the Carlton side.


However since 2015 we have taken Michael Gibbons as a rookie and he looks okay, Tom De Konig a ruckmen that has shown a bit, Tom Williamson who could be anything but be crueled by a back injury, Zac Fisher at pick 27 who will def play 150 games and Jack Silvagni who is a good foot soldier and if it wasnt for his name would not receive anywhere near the criticism he cops.

Care to expand on what you mean by baggage?

 

[Bazz_27]

The way SOS ranked Liam Stocker as pick 6 is also damning. In reality he was probably only a top 20 pick.
I put the following players in the draft ahead of him,Rozee, Rankine, Duursma, Butters, Max King, Stack, Bailey Smith, Hately, Lukosius, Tarryn Thomas, Jack Ross, Mathew Parker, Mardy Hore, Ben King and Jye Caldwell.

I am with you for sure on this. The only thing that saves him is he probably meant in this years (or a non "super draft") I guess.

 

[Bazz_27]

Care to expand on what you mean by baggage?

all the possessions he gets?

it's a flawed argument.

If they had a good structure in place they could take any player and try to make it work. They couldn't have made the side much worse so they would have had more to gain then lose.

 

[living_in_syd]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2019-06-04/indicative-draft-order-after-round-11

is this right? According to the article adelaide get 1 and 19. Carlton 11. Is this right? I dont recall this (regarding 19)

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

The way SOS ranked Liam Stocker as pick 6 is also damning. In reality he was probably only a top 20 pick.
I put the following players in the draft ahead of him,Rozee, Rankine, Duursma, Butters, Max King, Stack, Bailey Smith, Hately, Lukosius, Tarryn Thomas, Jack Ross, Mathew Parker, Mardy Hore, Ben King and Jye Caldwell.

You put those players ahead of him.... but who are you?? Please declare your experience and what gives you a right to have an opinion on 18yo kids... or are you just a typical bigfooty draft guru who watches highlights tapes on youtubes and copies what Jay Clark and Buckenara tell them in the paper.

 

[Bazz_27]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2019-06-04/indicative-draft-order-after-round-11

is this right? According to the article adelaide get 1 and 19. Carlton 11. Is this right? I dont recall this (regarding 19)

We have the 2nd (19) through a separate GWS trade (who previously held the Carlton 2nd)

edit: that picture is gold. SOS where are we on the ladder now?