Stopping the Tigers 2020

[Jez1974]

they expect all Melbourne teams to play all the interstate sides away. Which is fine BUT then the whinge will be not enough MCG games

If we play more away that equals more games at the g

 

[rmcq]

More games for interstate sides at the G in my opinion makes for a fairer comp.

Which games from last year would you switch to the 'G?

 

[Jez1974]

Which games from last year would you switch to the 'G?

I mean play all sides twice, home and away, hence getting more than 3 games at the g.

 

[Dr Tigris]

1. Win the ball.

Beating their contested mids (Cotchin, Prestia, Martin, Edwards) is not as easy as it seems, but of the tasks one needs to do to beat Richmond, it's probably the easiest. They're okay at contested ball, not exceptional, but that means next to nothing if you can't...

2. Retain the ball

This is where things get tricky. You've won the ball, now you've got to win it free. You can try a) breaking through the first line of tacklers, but doing so requires players who can keep their feet through the tackle (against tacklers who are trained to bring you to ground, even on glancing contact) or players with pinpoint disposal by hand first, by foot second.

The Dogs and/or Collingwood have established how to beat them in a contested way; beat them around the ball to the extent that sheer effort allows you to win free, winning the ball so much and so often that sheer weight of numbers allows them to win clear, but I feel this is playing their game their way. You're risking getting the panics around the ball, and that is precisely what the Tiger's defensive setup around the ball is designed to generate, and once they've got you, they've got you.

They have the fitness to be patient, and will wait until the final ten minutes of the game if they have to. They'll give Dusty plenty of time off the field, so he's good and fresh for the final term and ready to lead his team on a 6 goal burst late in games.

The key here is one of either GWS or WC. Both teams have the size of mid and the caliber of ball carrier to win the ball and to win it free without doing so by sheer effort alone. The dogs can do this too, but their game is designed to negate turnovers rather than precision, it would require a change of mindset for this to work.

And, finally...

3. Move the ball deliberately forward.

You want to know how to lose games to Richmond? You win the ball, you win it clear, you've got loads of space and plenty of time, but then you waste it all by bombing long, trying to go too quickly. Astbury, Grimes, Houli, Vlaustin, Nankervis (to a lesser extent) and previously Rance intercept, get the ball into one of their quicks hands and out the other side, and it's bit you in the arse on turnover. They do this to isolate Riewoldt/Lynch out against defenders, and both players are exceptional one on one.

You're almost better off letting them win the clearance and cluttering up the back six than you are bombing long. It gives them the space they want, and they will beat you back to their half. You're not winning that battle.

So, you do as Collingwood did, early in 2019. You remain content to wait, to go slow, to play your game. If you can go quick, do so, but always keep your eyes lowered. Trick here is that Richmond's helter-skelter game makes you want to go quick; you've got to move the ball ever faster it seems to beat the tackling ring around the stoppage, and so it becomes infectious. You can see it, halfway through third terms and late in halves of footy; teams unable to see that they're panicking.

You probably need a set of decent onfield leaders for this, so Brisbane is out. WB had the leaders, we'll see if they still do.

Either contested marking, or a forward line willing to sacrifice their games to create space in the back half; take a leaf from Jack Riewoldt, actually. Draw the ball, and the player, but ensure that even if you can't mark the ball be willing to sacrifice your game for the sake of the team and smash the thing into dangerous areas. Have your smalls situated marginally further back than you usually would, and swarm their defence, impeding the switch, and try to prevent that quick movement from the back half.

Seems to me that WC are the team best equipped to do this, but beating Richmond at the G is no small thing. More space there than almost any other ground, and Richmond thrive in space. Still, that's how I think you beat them.

Very good analysis. The Tigers are trying to improve that contested area to take your plan away. But basically what you are saying is how we lose. Get the ball from contests and get it clear then cut through our structure so that we are turned inside out. Easy conceptually, hard to do. But when it happens the Tigers look quite poor.

 

[Dusty0004]

1. Win the ball.

Beating their contested mids (Cotchin, Prestia, Martin, Edwards) is not as easy as it seems, but of the tasks one needs to do to beat Richmond, it's probably the easiest. They're okay at contested ball, not exceptional, but that means next to nothing if you can't...

2. Retain the ball

This is where things get tricky. You've won the ball, now you've got to win it free. You can try a) breaking through the first line of tacklers, but doing so requires players who can keep their feet through the tackle (against tacklers who are trained to bring you to ground, even on glancing contact) or players with pinpoint disposal by hand first, by foot second.

The Dogs and/or Collingwood have established how to beat them in a contested way; beat them around the ball to the extent that sheer effort allows you to win free, winning the ball so much and so often that sheer weight of numbers allows them to win clear, but I feel this is playing their game their way. You're risking getting the panics around the ball, and that is precisely what the Tiger's defensive setup around the ball is designed to generate, and once they've got you, they've got you.

They have the fitness to be patient, and will wait until the final ten minutes of the game if they have to. They'll give Dusty plenty of time off the field, so he's good and fresh for the final term and ready to lead his team on a 6 goal burst late in games.

The key here is one of either GWS or WC. Both teams have the size of mid and the caliber of ball carrier to win the ball and to win it free without doing so by sheer effort alone. The dogs can do this too, but their game is designed to negate turnovers rather than precision, it would require a change of mindset for this to work.

And, finally...

3. Move the ball deliberately forward.

You want to know how to lose games to Richmond? You win the ball, you win it clear, you've got loads of space and plenty of time, but then you waste it all by bombing long, trying to go too quickly. Astbury, Grimes, Houli, Vlaustin, Nankervis (to a lesser extent) and previously Rance intercept, get the ball into one of their quicks hands and out the other side, and it's bit you in the arse on turnover. They do this to isolate Riewoldt/Lynch out against defenders, and both players are exceptional one on one.

You're almost better off letting them win the clearance and cluttering up the back six than you are bombing long. It gives them the space they want, and they will beat you back to their half. You're not winning that battle.

So, you do as Collingwood did, early in 2019. You remain content to wait, to go slow, to play your game. If you can go quick, do so, but always keep your eyes lowered. Trick here is that Richmond's helter-skelter game makes you want to go quick; you've got to move the ball ever faster it seems to beat the tackling ring around the stoppage, and so it becomes infectious. You can see it, halfway through third terms and late in halves of footy; teams unable to see that they're panicking.

You probably need a set of decent onfield leaders for this, so Brisbane is out. WB had the leaders, we'll see if they still do.

Either contested marking, or a forward line willing to sacrifice their games to create space in the back half; take a leaf from Jack Riewoldt, actually. Draw the ball, and the player, but ensure that even if you can't mark the ball be willing to sacrifice your game for the sake of the team and smash the thing into dangerous areas. Have your smalls situated marginally further back than you usually would, and swarm their defence, impeding the switch, and try to prevent that quick movement from the back half.

Seems to me that WC are the team best equipped to do this, but beating Richmond at the G is no small thing. More space there than almost any other ground, and Richmond thrive in space. Still, that's how I think you beat them.

1 area people often overlook is the value of taking marks in the corridor. Richmond’s back 6 are very good at forcing the oppo wide to take marks therefore making it harder to kick goals (eg QF V Brisbane). Essentially making it a turn over.
young Naughton from the Bulldogs managed to clunk a lot of contested grabs in dangerous positions and proved to be the difference.

 

[rmcq]

I mean play all sides twice, home and away, hence getting more than 3 games at the g.

So you want a 40 week season then? Even though the players have refused to play that many games. And climate change is shortening the period of comfortable playing weather?

Be realistic.

 

[Mofra]

1 area people often overlook is the value of taking marks in the corridor. Richmond’s back 6 are very good at forcing the oppo wide to take marks therefore making it harder to kick goals (eg QF V Brisbane). Essentially making it a turn over.
young Naughton from the Bulldogs managed to clunk a lot of contested grabs in dangerous positions and proved to be the difference.

We did that against a team that had Grimes playing as a no 1 KPD. He's much better as a no 2 or 3 option where he will beat most/all mid-sizers in the competition. A fit Astbury makes a huge difference.

It will be interesting to see how we play Richmond this season as we'll now have two legitimate contested marking options (Bruce and Naughton) with Schache who isn't a contested marking threat but covers an enormous amount of ground.

 

[Dusty0004]

We did that against a team that had Grimes playing as a no 1 KPD. He's much better as a no 2 or 3 option where he will beat most/all mid-sizers in the competition. A fit Astbury makes a huge difference.

It will be interesting to see how we play Richmond this season as we'll now have two legitimate contested marking options (Bruce and Naughton) with Schache who isn't a contested marking threat but covers an enormous amount of ground.

I think from memory Broad played predominantly on Naughton but never the less contested marks in the corridor that convert to goals is hard to stop

 

[Dusty0004]

So you want a 40 week season then? Even though the players have refused to play that many games. And climate change is shortening the period of comfortable playing weather?

Be realistic.

Boxing Day test to be replaced with the AFL grand final

 

[Coach_Required]

Reading through this thread has absolutely blown my mind. The amount of sooking from WC fans is shocking! Infact it hasn't stopped for 5 months.
Honestly I thought Geelong were the biggest sooks in the land but surely Chris Scott has rubbed off on the Weagles.
They seem to take no responsibility for their own choking.
Key losses that proved their unsuccessful back to back campaign that they seem to dismiss;

Round 17 - reverse choke from the 18 GF.
Round 22 - lost to the better team in their quest to secure top 2.
Round 23...... Well and truly s**t the bed!
SF - no match for a much superior Geelong outfit.

Only have yourselves to blame.

You missed the home game they lost to Port Adelaide earlier in the year because it rained and made their concrete surface too slippery.

 

[_Mike_]

I mean play all sides twice, home and away, hence getting more than 3 games at the g.

Not a practical solution. The nature of our game would struggle to support that length of season - 34 weeks + 4 weeks of finals? Players would likely shorten their careers at an accelerated pace if they were able to keep up with it.

 

[rmcq]

Boxing Day test to be replaced with the AFL grand final

I forgot about the cricket season. The extra games couldn’t be played at the MCG anyway!

 

[Jez1974]

Not a practical solution. The nature of our game would struggle to support that length of season - 34 weeks + 4 weeks of finals? Players would likely shorten their careers at an accelerated pace if they were able to keep up with it.

Increase squad size, intra club instead of a bullshit waste of time pre season!

 

[Jez1974]

So you want a 40 week season then? Even though the players have refused to play that many games. And climate change is shortening the period of comfortable playing weather?

Be realistic.

And fair!

 

[Senor M]

Increase squad size, intra club instead of a bullshit waste of time pre season!

And fair!

Remind me what this has to do with Stopping Richmond in 2020?

Every time I open this thread it's some West Coast supporter complaining about #VICBIAS... there's other threads for you to whinge in without ruining this discussion.

 

[Jez1974]

Remind me what this has to do with Stopping Richmond in 2020?

Every time I open this thread it's some West Coast supporter complaining about #VICBIAS... there's other threads for you to whinge in without ruining this discussion.

Only responding to a question!!! Not even whinging. Salty much??

 

[Gavin Excell]

Also Tom Hawkins should wake up from nightmares for his dumb arsed suspension that saw him miss the prelim

Cats had a lot of ball that first half and you wonder what the additional power forward could have meant to the half time margin

 

[Tenny]

Used to really like the Lions until Fagan went crying to the umpires and didn’t credit us when we belted them up at the GABBA.

They’re a decent side but in the QF, they were taught a football lesson in class, composure and ruthless efficiency.

 

[rangatangtang]

It was good to see the Lions up and about, especially as it was a bit unexpected. Interesting to see if they can maintain it.

Now that it's expected try to still enjoy it.
[/QUOTE]

Used to really like the Lions until Fagan went crying to the umpires and didn’t credit us when we belted them up at the GABBA.

They’re a decent side but in the QF, they were taught a football lesson in class, composure and ruthless efficiency.

And the meek shall inherit the Earth

 

[Pistol Night]

Used to really like the Lions until Fagan went crying to the umpires and didn’t credit us when we belted them up at the GABBA.

They’re a decent side but in the QF, they were taught a football lesson in class, composure and ruthless efficiency.

Now we know youre the only person in Australia that doesn't like Chris Fagan, I guess we know what to make of your other comments

 

[A Bit Dusty]

Now we know youre the only person in Australia that doesn't like Chris Fagan, I guess we know what to make of your other comments

He does like him he gifted the Tigers a free ride to the Prelim

 

[Forward Press]

Used to really like the Lions until Fagan went crying to the umpires and didn’t credit us when we belted them up at the GABBA.

They’re a decent side but in the QF, they were taught a football lesson in class, composure and ruthless efficiency.

If you dislike coaches (and teams) based on comments about umpiring then your list of likable coaches and teams would be very, very short.

 

[Tenny]

Yet you reply? lol? Haha, isn't that an apreviation for people tha still wear a training bra?

What the f*** are you talking about? Go for a walk or have a lie down, Pistol. Ya worrying me.

 

[Forward Press]

Most coach’s criticism of umpires is warranted and justified. Fagan just has the hallmarks of a sore loser. He showed us no respect after we touched them up twice. Was awesome watching them get bundled out in straight sets

Personally I am not a fan of any umpire bashing, full stop, but let's be realistic here - all coaches whine, are philosophical, become angry, or are surprisingly calm. It's the nature of the job.

I am sure I can embarrass you with numerous direct quotes of Hardwick lashing out and I am sure you will find ways to justify them. Unless it becomes chronic like a Chris Scott then it's pointless singling out coaches for it.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

Yep. Would have pushed Richmond out of the four and made it much more challenging for them. Couple that with the last minute brain fart by the Eagles defenders in the Richmond game and they would have finished first and been favourite for back to back.

West Coast defeating Hawthorn in that last game would've pushed Collingwood out of the top 4 not Richmond.