Tex - is it time for an SANFL spell?

[Southerntakeover]

Cant wait when Walker kicks a bag and all these fickle supporters jump back on the bangwagon.

Who exactly is off the bandwagon?

Why do some people act like you cant recognize areas of potential improvement in a young players game without calling him the worlds biggest dud?

 

[Crow-mo]

Yep that makes sense.

So at what point to you change from being successfully bold and revert to being conservative?

usually at the point when you realise the House money is still your money.

 

[Crow-mo]

Its makes it very hard for any forward let alone Walker when they are on and off the ground like a yo-yo. In the third quarter last week he came on at the 10 minute mark and was taken off at the 18 minute mark. That gave him plenty of chance didnt it?

I'm sorry but you have totally missed the point.

 

[Crowman32]

Who exactly is off the bandwagon?

Why do some people act like you cant recognize areas of potential improvement in a young players game without calling him the worlds biggest dud?

People on here might of recognised improvement in some aspects of Walkers game but if hes improved so much why would you drop him. I think Walker has improved his defensive game very well and given TIME he will become the player we all hope he becomes. Unlike a lot of people like you i expected inconsistent form from Walker but didnt expect the fickle supporters like you.

 

[Crowman32]

I'm sorry but you have totally missed the point.

Just out of interest why havent we heard people make comments about Dangerfield being dropped back to the SANFL. He is only getting 10-12 possessions a games. Plays 15 minutes good and then disappears for most of the game. Going on the theory you guys talk about Walker then same should apply to Danger.

Just like Walker, Dangerfield shouldnt be dropped back to the sanfl as these kids need all the experience in the AFL they can get. Of course they are going to be in and out of the game but that is what happens with young players. Walker plays in a harder position than Dangerfield and spends most probably more time on the bench than Danger yet all you fickle supporter want Walker dumped.

 

[cmndstab]

There is nothing fickle about expecting players who are underperforming to be dropped. Yes, he's had a pretty good year for a young KPP, and yes he needs to be given a bit more leeway than a mature key forward, but he doesn't have a gold pass. His last three weeks haven't been spectacular and last week was the worst of his career. I don't think he'll be gone this week but if he doesn't have a good game I reckon he'll be out for a while.

Forget about Walker's development for a moment, what message does it send someone like McKernan is he's there busting his gut in the SANFL and Walker is in the AFL doing very little and getting selected each week.

Hopefully Walker will stay in the side against Richmond and blitz them and it won't be an issue.

 

[cmndstab]

Just out of interest why havent we heard people make comments about Dangerfield being dropped back to the SANFL. He is only getting 10-12 possessions a games. Plays 15 minutes good and then disappears for most of the game. Going on the theory you guys talk about Walker then same should apply to Danger.

Just like Walker, Dangerfield shouldnt be dropped back to the sanfl as these kids need all the experience in the AFL they can get. Of course they are going to be in and out of the game but that is what happens with young players. Walker plays in a harder position than Dangerfield and spends most probably more time on the bench than Danger yet all you fickle supporter want Walker dumped.

I'm not sure where the start with this post. Firstly, I'm not talking about whether I want Walker dropped or not, I'm talking about whether I think he will be dropped. I'm a Walker obsessee, I'd love to see him in the side every week, but I can understand that it might not be the best thing for the Crows if he's not performing.

Dangerfield has had a couple of quieter games earlier on in the season but his past month has been pretty good. Saying that Walker is playing a more difficult role is a bit of a misnomer, Dangerfield has been rotating between playing as an undersized leading forward and a 19 year old inside mid that seems to be our primary clearance player when he's in there. Nothing simple about that.

I agree the kids need AFL experience but they can't keep getting it if they are not performing. Walker's worse is a long way below Danger's worse, and if it starts to show itself more often than his best he will find himself back in the SANFL, which is exactly what should happen if he's not contributing. He'll then get back into form and force his way back into the side.

Also, I'm not sure Danger only contributing a decent 15 minutes a week is quite accurate.

 

[Crow-mo]

Just out of interest why havent we heard people make comments about Dangerfield being dropped back to the SANFL. He is only getting 10-12 possessions a games. Plays 15 minutes good and then disappears for most of the game. Going on the theory you guys talk about Walker then same should apply to Danger.

I haven't mentioned walker, and you're not addressing the post you replied to.

Just like Walker, Dangerfield shouldnt be dropped back to the sanfl as these kids need all the experience in the AFL they can get. Of course they are going to be in and out of the game but that is what happens with young players. Walker plays in a harder position than Dangerfield and spends most probably more time on the bench than Danger yet all you fickle supporter want Walker dumped.

and what does that tell you grasshopper?

 

[Southerntakeover]

Unlike a lot of people like you i expected inconsistent form from Walker but didnt expect the fickle supporters like you.

Where have i even criticized walkers game lately?

Put up or shut up.

 

[Alex99]

People on here might of recognised improvement in some aspects of Walkers game but if hes improved so much why would you drop him. I think Walker has improved his defensive game very well and given TIME he will become the player we all hope he becomes. Unlike a lot of people like you i expected inconsistent form from Walker but didnt expect the fickle supporters like you.

Because mental fatigue can influence someone match day preparation and match day performance as much trying to overcome a physical injury would. Just because he isn’t showing any physically affect from the season so far doesn’t mean his mental facilities aren’t taking affect.

This is his second season on the list and first in the AFL. To the average supporter he would have gone from being basically an unknown player who has the freedom to walk around the stadium on match day with obscurity to having mega attention thrust upon him. I don’t know how many people either stopping him for a chat or an autograph now or just say – play well and kick a few goals or generally wish him well but that pressure would have intensified. In the last 3 to 6 months his life would have changed enormously, even more than last year and this will be taking a mental affect on him. Does he know how to handle it?

Jumping off the bandwagon? Hell no. However sending him back to Norwood for a few weeks would allow him to recharge his battery to get ready for a tilt at the finals. It’s a LONG season. He must play AFL football in the last 3 weeks of the season and then any finals we participate in but at this stage of the season, he could do with a rest.

 

[sbenno]

usually at the point when you realise the House money is still your money.

what a shame AFL isn't a casino then...

(your analogy makes no sense to me)

 

[Crow-mo]

what a shame AFL isn't a casino then...

(your analogy makes no sense to me)

really? that surprises me (seriously).

you don't think risk taking is inversely correlated to the stakes?

and that's without talking about short and long term benefits.

you play the young guys, there is nothing at risk. you'll reap the benefits in the years to come. suddenly things open up, you can make a real run this year. there are better players today, who could come in and do the job for you now... bugger tomorrow. the young guys, they've had their experience they'll be better for it. might be time to give them a rest, they've had a taste.

i'd think it would take a very steady hand to avoid doing just that.

 

[Cap]

leave him in.

 

[Witty Remark]

I'm not sure where the start with this post. Firstly, I'm not talking about whether I want Walker dropped or not, I'm talking about whether I think he will be dropped. I'm a Walker obsessee, I'd love to see him in the side every week, but I can understand that it might not be the best thing for the Crows if he's not performing.

Dangerfield has had a couple of quieter games earlier on in the season but his past month has been pretty good. Saying that Walker is playing a more difficult role is a bit of a misnomer, Dangerfield has been rotating between playing as an undersized leading forward and a 19 year old inside mid that seems to be our primary clearance player when he's in there. Nothing simple about that.

I agree the kids need AFL experience but they can't keep getting it if they are not performing. Walker's worse is a long way below Danger's worse, and if it starts to show itself more often than his best he will find himself back in the SANFL, which is exactly what should happen if he's not contributing. He'll then get back into form and force his way back into the side.

Also, I'm not sure Danger only contributing a decent 15 minutes a week is quite accurate.

Did you just read my thoughts ! Spot on stabby !

 

[Mismatched]

one thing that annoys me, is people who use limited TOG as a mitigation for poor performance. its not an excuse for lower performance, its an indicator of dissatisfaction.

players doing everything asked of them, don't have their TOG severely restricted.

Exactly Whilst it can be a bit of a chicken and egg scenario, if a player is playing well enough, he'll get the game time and I think what you'll find is in both the Bulldogs and Hawks games(his 2 best games so far) Walker has looked good right from the get go and as a result has received a decent amount of gametime. However, kicking those 5 against the Hawks opened the eyes of the competition to the talent that is Taylor Walker and they are paying far more attention to him now and considering he has such a slight, young and immature body for a KPF, he's struggling with this type of attention, as can be expected.

I also think some here need to stop acting like it'll be the end of the world(aka the end of Taylor Walker's career) if Walker gets dropped to the SANFL, it won't be, he'll still be likely be a star in years to come and at the moment is learning the game. Did it hurt Tippet or Mackay last year to have a spell in the SANFL? Both managed to make it back into the side later in the year and are now playing some amazing football for players of their age/experience.

 

[betterthanu]

If for nothing else it would be good to get his confidence back up after a few lean weeks. Still, me being the selfish person i am i hope he stays in (if norwood are the ABC game i might be more accepting )

 

[Campbell's Chunky]

If for nothing else it would be good to get his confidence back up after a few lean weeks. Still, me being the selfish person i am i hope he stays in (if norwood are the ABC game i might be more accepting )

Yep.

Centrals v Norwood aka Walker v Henderson (if Walker was to be dropped).

But atleast Hendo will be on tv.

 

[cmndstab]

I wonder if Young or Kite will line up on Hendo?

 

[NTRabbit]

Unless the match committee think he's in dire need of it, the injury to Moran has probably put paid to any discussion of dropping Walker this week anyway; there are just too many injuries in our tall section. Griffin, Moran, Hentschel, Gill all injured, and the faux-tall Burton still needing a few weeks at WWT. Our squad depth in that area is now right down to the greenhorns.

 

[relapse]

one thing that annoys me, is people who use limited TOG as a mitigation for poor performance. its not an excuse for lower performance, its an indicator of dissatisfaction.

players doing everything asked of them, don't have their TOG severely restricted.

So when he starts the game on the bench and misses half the first quarter obviously his performance in the warm up is not up to par

Coming on and off the field as a forward is ridiculously hard to get a feel for the game. This is where the problem is, as a forward coming on and off the field for 10 minute spells does not make it easy for you to get a feel for the game. When he has more game time he has been able to establish a far bigger presence in those games over the games where he is on and off the bench continuously.

 

[relapse]

really? that surprises me (seriously).

you don't think risk taking is inversely correlated to the stakes?

and that's without talking about short and long term benefits.

you play the young guys, there is nothing at risk. you'll reap the benefits in the years to come. suddenly things open up, you can make a real run this year. there are better players today, who could come in and do the job for you now... bugger tomorrow. the young guys, they've had their experience they'll be better for it. might be time to give them a rest, they've had a taste.

i'd think it would take a very steady hand to avoid doing just that.

So this is where we are supposed to "stack" our side so we can finish 5th or 6th again ???

That is the kind of thinking that started the whole destination disease where we try to consolidate a position in the 8 and then get exposed at finals time for not being good enough. I would rather see us continue our current path and maybe make the finals rather than trying to stack the side at their expense just so we can finish in the bottom half of the 8 again and achieve nothing besides rob our youngsters crucial game time. The path to success is in those players we are trying to develop, there is no chance for us to have short term success especially if we go down the path of dropping youngsters to ensure that Shirley, Burton, Goody and Reilly all come into the 22.

 

[sbenno]

really? that surprises me (seriously).

you don't think risk taking is inversely correlated to the stakes?

and that's without talking about short and long term benefits.

you play the young guys, there is nothing at risk. you'll reap the benefits in the years to come. suddenly things open up, you can make a real run this year. there are better players today, who could come in and do the job for you now... bugger tomorrow. the young guys, they've had their experience they'll be better for it. might be time to give them a rest, they've had a taste.

i'd think it would take a very steady hand to avoid doing just that.

Perhaps, I see your point, but reckon there is more risk in trying something "new" (i.e significantly changing your team halfway through the season) when the new thing you tried at the start of the season is still working for you. I don't the "house money" analogy really works, it's not like we can put up those won games and lose the lot. They're still there.

I disagree with the insinuation that the younger players have just been there for the ride, carried by the older, more experienced players. Craigy is on record saying that he always puts his best 22 on the park, so I'm not sure there are "better" players waiting in the rooms just hanging out for the time when craigy says "ok these young kids have had enough of a taste, time to put the real crows out there..."

As for risk vs reward, it's not that simple. Sure under normal circumstances they're not gonna debut a kid on the grand final, cos the calculated risk would be ridiculous. I don't think you can really say that there is an inverse correllation though, only that when the stakes are higher, you put more thought into the calculated risks you take.

 

[Witty Remark]

What's with the obsession some people have in dropping Walker. He is not going to get dropped and nor should he. He has had limited game time in recent week but is not performing that badly. Stop talking about it as its not going to happen, he is actually having a very good year for a young forward.

Ahem.... what was that you were saying?

With Moran out i thought he would have got another week in the AFL, particularly against Richmond.

Be interested to see Smack and Sellar though.

 

[Crow-mo]

So when he starts the game on the bench and misses half the first quarter obviously his performance in the warm up is not up to par

Coming on and off the field as a forward is ridiculously hard to get a feel for the game. This is where the problem is, as a forward coming on and off the field for 10 minute spells does not make it easy for you to get a feel for the game. When he has more game time he has been able to establish a far bigger presence in those games over the games where he is on and off the bench continuously.

yes, well spotted. you've correctly identified that all players exist in a vacuum with an etch-a-sketch erase function so that they all start at ground zero every quarter.

 

[Crow-mo]

So this is where we are supposed to "stack" our side so we can finish 5th or 6th again ???

That is the kind of thinking that started the whole destination disease where we try to consolidate a position in the 8 and then get exposed at finals time for not being good enough. I would rather see us continue our current path and maybe make the finals rather than trying to stack the side at their expense just so we can finish in the bottom half of the 8 again and achieve nothing besides rob our youngsters crucial game time. The path to success is in those players we are trying to develop, there is no chance for us to have short term success especially if we go down the path of dropping youngsters to ensure that Shirley, Burton, Goody and Reilly all come into the 22.

not surprisingly, you've completely missed the train of thought, and line of argument. go start at the beginning, and read through.