The 2017 Rolling All-Australian Thread

[Scotland]

Nick Riewoldt was good for DT in his day

200 marks in a season will do that.

Dean Cox was the ultimate DTer before David King decreed 30 touches per game or GTFO. Heaps of uncontested possies, plus 25 hitouts a game which at the time was competition leading but wouldn't have him top 15 now.

Footy really has gone stat crazy the last 5 or so years. It used to be annoying when someone like Hodge or Gibbs was made mid only because you'd be scratching to find a defender who'd average more than 80, now guys like Docherty and Laird rack up 30 touches for fun.

 

[Fonzeno1]

Not surprised you think that given you support the team that is #1 in Dream Team points for the season but has won 5 games.



Watch more football.

Yeah the thing with this post is you havn't really made an arguement. It's easy to say stats are only stats but i watch nearly every game and the guys you mentioned have to this point been better than mcgovern. Yeah stats aren't everything but those guys have impacted games while also having the stats to back that up. Name an area you think mcgovern has been better. The claim that a backline with hurley, rance, howe, yeo, laird and docherty would get smashed is borderline crazy.

 

[Fonzeno1]

It was crude and the remark about Collingwood is unnecessary but the point stands - fantasy football points shouldn't be used as a guide as to who to put in defence.

A cheap mark and switch kick under no pressure is worth more than a tackle that stops a forward running into an open goal, for example, in Dream Team terms.

McGovern's worth is measure on the amount of intercept marks and intercept possessions and his ability to negate the opponent's second/third tall forward very well. He should be considered for the AA squad of 40 - in fact he made the AA team last year despite not exactly accumulating the fantasy football points.

I totally agree dream team points should have no bearing. But i wasn't doing that. One of the blokes he was putting under mcgovern was howe who has more intercept marks (no1 afl) and contested marks (no1 defender). I watch almost every game and i would honestly have others above him at the present time.

 

[Fonzeno1]

AA by DT:

B: Lloyd Docherty Laird
HB: Adams Roberton Simpson
C: Merrett Gibbs Zorko
HF: Yeo MaCrae B Hill
F: Billings Franklin Cameron
Foll: Grundy Mitchell Dangerfield

IC: Duncan Martin Pendlebury Murphy

That's what people want!

You keep pushing this scotland but i havn't seen anyone put up that side as their all australian. The fact of the matter is some of those guys deserve though. Should they be left out because they have high dream team points or stats?

 

[Scotland]

Yeah the thing with this post is you havn't really made an arguement. It's easy to say stats are only stats but i watch nearly every game and the guys you mentioned have to this point been better than mcgovern. Yeah stats aren't everything but those guys have impacted games while also having the stats to back that up. Name an area you think mcgovern has been better. The claim that a backline with hurley, rance, howe, yeo, laird and docherty would get smashed is borderline crazy.

McGovern is a key defender, Howe, Docherty, Laird and Yeo are not. Does Howe deserve a spot over Dangerfield or Betts? He doesn't win clearances and kick goals... If you want to play the stats game then Alex 'GOAT' Rance gets smashed in every category except 1%ers. Would you pick Howe over Rance because he gets more kicks?

That back 6 I listed would get smashed because there would be 3 or 4 players scrambling to be loose. I've already said that Howe is the most defensive of the smalls/mediums and I'd have him in my side but I don't want a back 6 full of guys whose primary function is to accumulate possessions. If you do then great, but like I said - Collingwood lead the league in DT points and have only won 5 games. Stats only mean so much if they don't translate to meaningful results.

Docherty is having a great season but if you think there aren't a heap of midfielders who could play his role you're kidding yourself. Cameron and Daniher are the only players in the top 10 for marks who don't play in defence. Uncontested ball in the back half is the new black.

 

[Scotland]

McGovern's worth is measure on the amount of intercept marks and intercept possessions and his ability to negate the opponent's second/third tall forward very well. He should be considered for the AA squad of 40 - in fact he made the AA team last year despite not exactly accumulating the fantasy football points.

McGovern's worth is the quality intercept marks and intercept possessions he gets. 4th in the comp for marks and 3rd for contested marks while also being 14th in 1%ers. Dropped off a bit in defensive acts since playing forward a bit the last few weeks, but it's not like he's a one trick pony who marks it when he can. He'll halve a contest if he can't mark the ball himself.

He reads the play incredibly, has sticky hands and is physically strong. He doesn't just outmark opponents, he outmarks key forwards like Jon Patton. He leaves his man to be 3rd, 4th or 5th man up to a pack, but he's also great 1 on 1. If there was a stat for 'marking a ball you expect a defender to spoil' he'd be right up there. He's also a good kick too, and covers the ground pretty well for a fat ****.

 

[TooBlue14]

FB: J. Lever, A. Rance, R. Laird
HB: Z. Williams, M. Hurley, E. Yeo
C: J. Kelly, P. Dangerfield, Z. Merrett
HF: L. Franklin, J. Daniher, T. Greene
FF: E. Betts, J. Cameron, R. Gray
R: M. Kruezer, D. Martin, S. Pendlebury
IC: J. Kennedy (Syd), J. Selwood, G. Ablett, D. Zorko

Docherty has been better than yeo, laird and Williams this year.

 

[Fonzeno1]

McGovern is a key defender, Howe, Docherty, Laird and Yeo are not. Does Howe deserve a spot over Dangerfield or Betts? He doesn't win clearances and kick goals... If you want to play the stats game then Alex 'GOAT' Rance gets smashed in every category except 1%ers. Would you pick Howe over Rance because he gets more kicks?

That back 6 I listed would get smashed because there would be 3 or 4 players scrambling to be loose. I've already said that Howe is the most defensive of the smalls/mediums and I'd have him in my side but I don't want a back 6 full of guys whose primary function is to accumulate possessions. If you do then great, but like I said - Collingwood lead the league in DT points and have only won 5 games. Stats only mean so much if they don't translate to meaningful results.

Docherty is having a great season but if you think there aren't a heap of midfielders who could play his role you're kidding yourself. Cameron and Daniher are the only players in the top 10 for marks who don't play in defence. Uncontested ball in the back half is the new black.

But what im saying is im not playing the stats game. Im saying these are who i think are the better players for the year at this point in time. Some of them have higher stats and dream team points so youre automatically saying oh stats dont mean everything and assuming thats why i think these guys should get the nod. That isn't the case. I do believe that some stats matter to a certain degree anyone that doesn't is kidding themselfs. Do you think a forward with low goals will be picked? Fact is i named who i think is the best performed back 6 at this stage of the season. Sorry you don't like it and that they seem to have high dream team points but hey that's my opinion and alot of people are naming those guys first not beacause of high dream team points but because they've all had excellent years.

 

[Donakebab]

Docherty has been better than yeo, laird and Williams this year.

Take the goggles off, no way has he been better than Yeo.

 

[AFLOnline]

Take the goggles off, no way has he been better than Yeo.

Yes he has lol

 

[Juddernaut08]

B: Rory Laird, Alex Rance, Michael Hibberd

HB: Jeremy Howe, Michael Hurley, Sam Docherty

C: Bradley Hill, Joel Selwood, Josh Kelly

HF: Dustin Martin, Lance Franklin, Toby Greene

F: Eddie Betts, Jeremy Cameron, Jeff Garlett

R: Sam Jacobs, Patrick Dangerfield, Clayton Oliver

INT: Tom Mitchell, Dayne Zorko, Zach Merrett, Josh Kennedy (Sydney)

Brad hill??? Perplexing

 

[Juddernaut08]

Woo 4 Carlton players. We must be top of the ladder

dont think simpson will make it

 

[Forward Press]

Take the goggles off, no way has he been better than Yeo.

Yes he has lol

Well we've clearly reached an impasse. From two neutral fans no less.

My biased opinion says he is a lock at the moment (3rd in coaches votes says it all) but he is far from secure in his position.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

Yes he has lol

3rd in the coaches votes suggests no, he hasn't

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

3rd in the coaches votes suggests no, he hasn't

Shouldn't matter... They should both be in the team if the season ended now.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

Shouldn't matter... They should both be in the team if the season ended now.

100% agree

 

[Topkent]

As of the completion of Round 14 - my updated AA team:

DEF: S.DOCHERTY A.RANCE J.LEVER

H/BK: J.HOWE M.HURLEY R.LAIRD

C/Line: S.PENDLES T.MITCHELL A.GAFF

H/FWD: T.GREENE A.DANIHER R.GRAY

FWD: E.BETTS J.CAMERON L.FRANKLIN

F/WERS: B.GRUNDY P.DANGERFIELD Z.MERRETT

I/CHNG: D.MARTIN, G.ABLETT, , A.TRELOAR, E. YEO

I believe Kreuzer is having a purple patch, and is the best performing ruckman over the last 6-7 weeks, but over the course of the season (14 matches played) - i still would have Grundy/Martin ahead of Kreuzer.

Is this the first time ever a supporter hasnt crowbarred one of their own into the side?

 

[Donakebab]

Is this the first time ever a supporter hasnt crowbarred one of their own into the side?

Pity it's ruined with selections like Gaff.

 

[Scotland]

I didn't even notice that, how did Gaff sneak in?

By my count he's on fewer than 20 votes in the coaches award (just one metric) and hasn't really had any standout games.

 

[Damon_3388]

McGovern is a key defender, Howe, Docherty, Laird and Yeo are not. Does Howe deserve a spot over Dangerfield or Betts? He doesn't win clearances and kick goals... If you want to play the stats game then Alex 'GOAT' Rance gets smashed in every category except 1%ers. Would you pick Howe over Rance because he gets more kicks?

That back 6 I listed would get smashed because there would be 3 or 4 players scrambling to be loose. I've already said that Howe is the most defensive of the smalls/mediums and I'd have him in my side but I don't want a back 6 full of guys whose primary function is to accumulate possessions. If you do then great, but like I said - Collingwood lead the league in DT points and have only won 5 games. Stats only mean so much if they don't translate to meaningful results.

Docherty is having a great season but if you think there aren't a heap of midfielders who could play his role you're kidding yourself. Cameron and Daniher are the only players in the top 10 for marks who don't play in defence. Uncontested ball in the back half is the new black.

You realise that both Rance and Hurley average more intercept possessions than the supposed "intercept king" McGovern, right? Rance is also #2 (behind Michael Hartley) in 1%ers per game, and Hurley is #1 in rebound 50s per game. What is McGovern doing better than them to earn a spot as a key defender at the moment?

 

[eth-dog]

You realise that both Rance and Hurley average more intercept possessions than the supposed "intercept king" McGovern, right? Rance is also #2 (behind Michael Hartley) in 1%ers per game, and Hurley is #1 in rebound 50s per game. What is McGovern doing better than them to earn a spot as a key defender at the moment?

By being arguably the 3rd best key defender in the game

 

[Scotland]

You realise that both Rance and Hurley average more intercept possessions than the supposed "intercept king" McGovern, right? Rance is also #2 (behind Michael Hartley) in 1%ers per game, and Hurley is #1 in rebound 50s per game. What is McGovern doing better than them to earn a spot as a key defender at the moment?

My AA side has Rance, Hurley and McGovern in it so I'm not going to defend picking McGovern over Hurley or Rance. FWIW McGovern isn't the 'intercept king', he's the contested intercept king. He has more contested marks than Rance, Hurley and Hartley put together. It's only McGovern and Howe that are renowned contested markers, and they are different styles of player.

My argument is that a side with 3 key defenders is better than a side with 2 + Howe/Yeo/Laird/Docherty. You could drop McGovern and pick Talia or Tarrant or Tom McDonald or whoever and it would still be better. McGovern, Rance and Hurley are all genuine two-way key defenders.

 

[Deep Blue]

FB: J. Lever, A. Rance, R. Laird
HB: Z. Williams, M. Hurley, E. Yeo
C: J. Kelly, P. Dangerfield, Z. Merrett
HF: L. Franklin, J. Daniher, T. Greene
FF: E. Betts, J. Cameron, R. Gray
R: M. Kruezer, D. Martin, S. Pendlebury
IC: J. Kennedy (Syd), J. Selwood, G. Ablett, D. Zorko

Docherty is a clear lock in the AA team at this stage - having said that, you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[citizen-erased]

FB: J. Lever, A. Rance, R. Laird
HB: Z. Williams, M. Hurley, E. Yeo
C: J. Kelly, P. Dangerfield, Z. Merrett
HF: L. Franklin, J. Daniher, T. Greene
FF: E. Betts, J. Cameron, R. Gray
R: M. Kruezer, D. Martin, S. Pendlebury
IC: J. Kennedy (Syd), J. Selwood, G. Ablett, D. Zorko

can't argue with this

 

[cryptor]

can't argue with this

By the looks of the post above yours, you can.