Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread

[Doro]

Biggest concern for mine if SOS moves on is who his replacement is. I'm not sure Agresta is ready for the head honcho role and getting one out of a successful club with a proven record might be a challenge.

 

[Nori]

Caroline Wilson is probably just hearing the same rumours that we have been hearing and putting her own spin on it.

The more I see of Liddle the more I see a CEO that is hyper sensitive to the mood of the membership and also one that is obsessive about the implementation of plans. It would not surprise me if Liddle has been asking SOS difficult questions about why the list management team has failed to bring in establish talent. After all, recruiting established talent was widely spruiked as the next big phase of the rebuild strategy.

Clearly there are good reasons why SOS has missed out on Shiel and Papley, but in choosing to target the elite talent comes the risk of ending up empty handed. His other option was to pick less established stars that were ready to shine, but of course there's always the risk of those players not performing up to expectations.

If SOS does decide to focus on his business interests then I'm pretty sure that Liddle will bring in someone else who's up to the task. I also suspect Liddle would enjoy having someone who is under his control rather than operating with the direct authority of the board and also a large slab of the supporter base.

For me, SOS's greatest strength has been his ability to create draft picks and bring in young talent with very little at his disposal. This has probably cut a good 1-2 years off the rebuild time and for this he'll always have my admiration.

 

[BIGGUS 64]

I think there's definitely a strong undercurrent of fear among the anti-Carlton people out there of whom Caro is just one with a high profile. Fear of what is building at Carlton and a recognition that SOS is a major architect. Hence the desperation on all levels by our enemies to undermine and discredit SOS.
On FC, we saw Caro make a very public attempt to damage SOS's credibility. SOS wasn't having it and we all loved watching him put her in her place, but of course she's not just going to leave it there, is she?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I think there's definitely a strong undercurrent of fear among the anti-Carlton people out there of whom Caro is just one with a high profile. Fear of what is building at Carlton and a recognition that SOS is a major architect. Hence the desperation on all levels by our enemies to undermine and discredit SOS.
On FC, we saw Caro make a very public attempt to damage SOS's credibility. SOS wasn't having it and we all loved watching him put her in her place, but of course she's not just going to leave it there, is she?

Not a fan of Caro but that's not what is happening here, look at Barass' comment. Caro has some insight in this instance.

 

[windows1]

SOS has done a great job under difficult circumstances - would definately hate to see him go.
He and the CLub have to work through the sons at Carlton situation - not an easy conundrum.

I think it’s an insurmountable conflict now. It’s not just whether they get picked/stay. It’s how much they get paid. We can convince ourselves that he ‘steps aside’ from the decision making. BUT I find it almost impossible to reconcile how that happens with no animosity from some parts.

He’s done an amazing job. If he wants to go a different path it’s ok. It’s a critical job. I hope we select his successor carefully.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

The only positive if SOS leaves is that the best list managers in the game will be climbing over each other to get the job and take the credit.

 

[rampar]

Definitely not pushed, but form what I read into it Liddle is ruthless in regards to accountability, performance and KPI's. SOS is fully dedicated to the cause but doesn't need a statistician putting unwanted pressure on him.

id prefer to lose Liddle.

 

[Ockhams razor]

SOS is in an invidious position with his sons at the club, being a legend of the club, and an an alpha male with 2 new strong bosses each with something to prove.

North have made a big play for him and will now likely land the big fish they’ve been chasing for years.

 

[Gavstar]

For where we are right now I think Liddle is the most important person at the club , more so than the list manager and even the coach.

Disappointed that SOS may be on the way out and disgraceful that this has been leaked beforehand if the case. If that is Liddle's doing he should be the one on the way out of the club.

Didn't a senior AFL coach say the List manager was the most important person player at a club? Liddle isn't going to help build our success on field (He's a marketing guy). Concerned that we are believing the hype and getting ahead of ourselves with the rose coloured glass. Look at Adelaide, how dominant they were and the consequences of falling just short in the big dance.

In my view have some serious holes to fill before we are going to be up and about Simpson, Murphy, Kruezer and maybe Ed and a still need a long term small forward.

I do think SOS had to bring in a small forward in addition to Eddie and from the outside its seemed to be Papley or bust in that department.

Perhaps SOS was more vigourous in not wanting Eddie Betts than has been reported. I have found the Deluca recruiting perplexing, constant injury prone player recruitment and salary dumps like Lobbe. Why is Polson still on the list etc etc?

GWS was setup by SOS list management, I don't think we are there yet.

 

[HBF]

SOS is in an invidious position with his sons at the club, being a legend of the club, and an an alpha male with 2 new strong bosses each with something to prove.

North have made a big play for him and will now likely land the big fish they’ve been chasing for years.

Thanks for the update OR. Will be a shame to see SOS go (particularly to another club) but he has done so much of the heavy lifting for us now. We just need someone to come in and finish off the work that has been done.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Tell you what, if I was SOS, I'd be really looking forward to the tipping point where it becomes about list maintenance, not list building, so I could pass the reins to Agresta, sit back, and enjoy watching my sons win a few flags with the club my father and I played for.

I think we're pretty close to that point. There aren't many gaping holes in our list now - another small forward or two, and a prime-age midfielder, and the list is in a really good spot. Could see a succession plan being put into place over the course of the next 12 months that sees Agresta take over the list management portfolio in its entirety by the end of the next trade/draft period.

 

[Monkey King]

It’s too soon to leave, SOS old mate. Next year will be wheel and deal time. I remember when you and Braddles put your hands up to go around another year if needed. Club went with Mick Martyn instead.

Let’s do the extra year this time round, waddya say?.

 

[Jeremias]

SOS is in an invidious position with his sons at the club, being a legend of the club, and an an alpha male with 2 new strong bosses each with something to prove.

North have made a big play for him and will now likely land the big fish they’ve been chasing for years.

Please say it ain’t so OR...

 

[RoyalParade]

SOS is in an invidious position with his sons at the club, being a legend of the club, and an an alpha male with 2 new strong bosses each with something to prove.

North have made a big play for him and will now likely land the big fish they’ve been chasing for years.

If it's an amicable parting, then I don't see a problem with it.

It always appeared that agresta and SOS were fulfilling essentially the same role, and seemed to step on each other's toes from time to time

It also looked liked he didn't have much time for Lloyd.

It would now give him and the club clean air in regards to his boys, especially with tom being draft eligible next year.

He will always be considered a club legend that won't change.

He has nothing left to prove, everyone can see the list he has put together.

And the new list manager can now get on with the business of completing the rebuild so to speak.

 

[ctwenty1]

Please say it ain’t so OR...

well this news is all rather shitty, just before the draft as well

 

[Magruder]

Couldn't rate this more highly. I think of all the kids you listed the only one that concerns me is Dow. I'd have said O'Brien until I saw him thrive under Teague in the last half of the year. The rest of them have shown plenty (except Stocker but that's way too early to make a call there) that you have to call it a pass mark. You can't rate SOS's strike rate on trading based on all players as many were GWS packaged players that he took to get a key player on the cheap (eg. Plowman, Marchbank). If Phillips is the only one off that pile who turned out its probably a win and he's effectively been on traded as a back up 28 year old ruckman for a 23 year old from a very, very good football club. It's hard to make a call on Pickett whether SOS can be held with any sort of accountability for that not working out and Bugg was probably one you can say was a poor call. As for getting a big name player that's where the assessment lies. Shiel, Coniglio and now Papley. You expect Martin to go through still. Coniglio certainly seems like AFL intervention and no CEO of a league should be making comment about where he wants a player to play and probably pulling strings accordingly to ensure he is remunerated and stays where is best for the league. You can't fight city hall and you can't win that battle. Similarly I think Martin was also mismanaged by the AFL telling them to "play hard ball, stand up for yourself at the trade table" but not actually telling them they still need to get a trade done. That's sounds a little conspiratorial but it's how it feels to me. It was just incompetence on the behalf of GCS. Papley, well, that hinged on the Bombers so again out of SOS's hands really the Swans werent going to go into 2020 unless they had either Daniher or Papley. You're losing a top 6 player. So really you can only look at SOS in terms of Shiel, but now players are wanting to come. Whether that's SOS or Teague or a cohesion of both and finally getting all the right off field elements correct that players want to come that's the question. I for one rate SOS but he will need to land a big fish next year there's no question.

Lots of talking points but paragraphs are your friend

 

[ODNBlue]

I think all dog owners need one of these...



It just proves that everything looks better in navy blue.







https://www.house.com.au/product/afl-dog-small-37cm-jumper-carlton-blues

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Not sure why people getting so upset about this.

SOS came in to do the heavy lifting and has done a sterling job but I imagine, with his sons there, even he may think it's now time to move on.

There's no winner or loser here. He's a Carlton great, always will be and Agresta seems a worthy successor.

And people calling for Liddle over SOS have got it all wrong. Liddle is the key to our ongoing success as a club.

 

[Treesloth]

Caro might be on the money this time..

Gee he’s extremely stiff if true. Takes two clubs to trade and any other year and both Sydney and GC would probably have been reasonable enough to deal.

On top of that, the move to Teague clearly should have been made sooner, as he’s going to get far more out of the list than Bolton did.

It would be a mistake to get rid of SOS IMO. What he’s done in the last 3/4 years has positioned our club to be competitive for the next decade...

 

[Matty411]

I truly hope this is not the last trade period and draft SOS has at the Blues.

 

[juzz88]

I think all dog owners need one of these...



It just proves that everything looks better in navy blue.







https://www.house.com.au/product/afl-dog-small-37cm-jumper-carlton-blues

Would buy if they had them in L/XL.

 

[gbatman]

This is a big year for SOS, this is where we find out whether his recruits are any good or not. I think if we see a good few young players step up this season that will be a big tick for his recruitment.

I think the list has been managed well. Unfortunately we have people in the media and on here expecting that we hit all our marks and don't carry a few ordinary players and think we shouldn't have holes. That's dreadfully unrealistic. The list is in good shape from where it has come from, well it will be if the young players really step up. Rebuild is well and truly on track. Land Coniglio, Papley and Martin and the rebuild is ahead of schedule. That turned out to be a pipe dream which was foiled by unusual circumstances out of our control.

People looking at this trade period as a bust are kidding themselves. It wasn't perfect but have a look at the other clubs.

Adelaide - Did nothing, lost players.
Lions - Ah Chee, might be alright for them.
Carlton - Betts (short term fix and leadership), Pittonett (Filled a hole, improves list), will probably get Martin for nothing.
Collingwood - Desperate for a key forward, did stuff all.
Essendon - Mediocre side with holes, did stuff all.
Freo - Aish, ok get.
Geelong - Stevens, Jenkins. Pretty good gets, filled holes.
Gold Coast - Got a couple of ok senior players.
GWS - Old ruckman to go with their old ruckman.
Hawthorn - Going down the path of taking risks with injury prone players again. Not that exciting. Desperate for height.
Melbourne - Langdon, does he improve them much?
North - Nothing again.
Port - Nothing.
Richmond - Nothing.
St Kilda - Got in a lot of mature age players, probably do alright out of it, probably overpaid and that will later be what holds them back from taking the next step.
Sydney - Lost more than they gained.
West Coast - Kelly was a steal.
WBD - Bruce, Keith. Good fit for their needs.

You can judge for yourself where we sit in that. Not hitting all our targets doesn't make it a disastrous trade period. Overpaying or losing players would make it that. I only think there is a handful of clubs who had a better trade period than us really and if you add Martin as I think we will we sit pretty high on the trade period ladder.

I think we have a lot of players wanting to come to Carlton and that's a massive tick.

We have managed the salary cap in a way where we can take in a lot of elite talent if the opportunity arises. We aren't overpaying our long term prospects. Huge tick, a lot of clubs sitting doing nothing waiting to fall and rebuild because they haven't.

Current listed players want to be here. Huge tick.

The next box to tick is whether our draftees are any good and that's what 2020 is going to be about. We've seen our talls come on the last year or so and some signs shown by some of our smaller players but we need to see more stepping up and this is where recruiters need to be judged on.

It is genuinely rotten luck that we didn't get Papley (Swans made him unavailable) and Coniglio (AFL). Shiel in the end we were beaten by the better club, nothing we could have done there apart from win more games and appear to be going as well or better than Essendon. Our time will come.

Not that easy to just recruit top players from other clubs for the sake of it to tick that box because our needs are shrinking. It's narrowed down to elite small forwards and an elite quick prolific full package centerman. We haven't got a heap to choose from. We don't need b graders or fringe player, we have them already. Our time is coming when we do land some really top level required players. Some this year and some the next will be about right. It's as much about those players becoming available to us as it is to us being able to get them and so far them becoming available to us has been the problem.

 

[smashbox gill]

I think it would be a bad decision to get rid of SOS now. We are still not there yet, we still need 1-2 more years to solidify our position. Getting rid of him now would be disastrous and could undo everything.

I hate that there are to many egos with the senior executives if true - Liddle & Lloyd

 

[smashbox gill]

And please dont go to bloody North

 

[jooce8891]

if sos leaves, hopefully liddle targets richmonds head of list management, need to target the best not the best available....