The Defence thread

[stEdy]

Unfortunately May coming in won't fix much/everything- not immediately anyway

As we saw with Lever last year, it took a while for him to settle and for the defensive group to find a rhythm/understanding of each other. The reason Richmond's defence is so good is they played SO much football together, they had barely any injuries to the core of their back 6 and their players matured together and became guns (Vlastuin, Astbury and Grimes weren't always deadset guns...). This is what we need with our defence and unfortunately plonking May at CHB will win us a few more 1v1s in the short term, it's the understanding and fluency in the medium/long term that we need to become a contender. WCE as well had Hurn/Sheppard (Until he did his hammy against us)/Barass/Mcgovern play most of the year together too from memory.

The way our defence sets up and is able to function is due to pressure anyway. It was pretty much the same back 6 as the two finals we won on the G and yet the result was completely different. Real and inferred pressure slows a team down, makes them second guess, makes them miss their kicks. Pretty much any team in the AFL can make the other team they're playing look like witches hats if they're allowed to move the ball how they want. On the weekend we barely laid a finger on Port and got sucked into the contest time and time again trying to right that wrong, but if you're reactive and flat footed - that dreaded "5-10% off" then it can be very difficult to turn around, especially when you're carrying unfit players. What Topkent was saying about the start of the year being quicker is probably a good bet too, Geelong last year murdered us on transition R1 last year from memory.

So what I'm saying is don't go grabbing your pitchforks and torches when May gets a bag kicked on him early days, because it will probably happen, especially if our pressure is down whilst we're still catching up fitness wise. It will be interesting to see what adaptions we can make with the 6/6/6 rule, maybe playing Preuss and dropping Gawn back consistently? Not sure

The correct answer is to complain that we should never have traded Hogan, convinced him to stay, and to have played him at CHB

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Unfortunately May coming in won't fix much/everything- not immediately anyway

As we saw with Lever last year, it took a while for him to settle and for the defensive group to find a rhythm/understanding of each other. The reason Richmond's defence is so good is they played SO much football together, they had barely any injuries to the core of their back 6 and their players matured together and became guns (Vlastuin, Astbury and Grimes weren't always deadset guns...). This is what we need with our defence and unfortunately plonking May at CHB will win us a few more 1v1s in the short term, it's the understanding and fluency in the medium/long term that we need to become a contender. WCE as well had Hurn/Sheppard (Until he did his hammy against us)/Barass/Mcgovern play most of the year together too from memory.

The way our defence sets up and is able to function is due to pressure anyway. It was pretty much the same back 6 as the two finals we won on the G and yet the result was completely different. Real and inferred pressure slows a team down, makes them second guess, makes them miss their kicks. Pretty much any team in the AFL can make the other team they're playing look like witches hats if they're allowed to move the ball how they want. On the weekend we barely laid a finger on Port and got sucked into the contest time and time again trying to right that wrong, but if you're reactive and flat footed - that dreaded "5-10% off" then it can be very difficult to turn around, especially when you're carrying unfit players. What Topkent was saying about the start of the year being quicker is probably a good bet too, Geelong last year murdered us on transition R1 last year from memory.

So what I'm saying is don't go grabbing your pitchforks and torches when May gets a bag kicked on him early days, because it will probably happen, especially if our pressure is down whilst we're still catching up fitness wise. It will be interesting to see what adaptions we can make with the 6/6/6 rule, maybe playing Preuss and dropping Gawn back consistently? Not sure

The correct answer is to complain that we should never have traded Hogan, convinced him to stay, and to have played him at CHB

Yep. The defence looked fine when we won four games in a row at the end of last year.

 

[stEdy]

It was actually mind boggling how well we defended the G those last three games at the G, I thought Crazy Goody was foxing the rest of season and his horrible home record was all apart of his plan

Maybe he's doing the same thing this year?

 

[blitznu]

I’ve read your post a couple of times and am pretty sure I agree

Haha sorry man not gifted with knowing how to write shit.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

It was actually mind boggling how well we defended the G those last three games at the G, I thought Crazy Goody was foxing the rest of season and his horrible home record was all apart of his plan

Maybe he's doing the same thing this year?

Mmm and Gawn's deliberately allowing himself to be bullied before he starts razing everyone in the elimination final

 

[Proper Gander]

Mmm and Gawn's deliberately allowing himself to be bullied before he starts razing everyone in the elimination final

Nice. I choose to believe this.

 

[Andy_Mac]

Frost is a proven liability. Again on the weekend he attempted a bat shit crazy run that resulted in a HTB and a port goal.

OMAC whilst conservative has a base you can work with. With Lever and May as the more creative types you need to have somebody that will stick to his task.

Keilty and/or Petty will both get their chance down back.

 

[Andy_Mac]

Unfortunately May coming in won't fix much/everything- not immediately anyway

As we saw with Lever last year, it took a while for him to settle and for the defensive group to find a rhythm/understanding of each other. The reason Richmond's defence is so good is they played SO much football together, they had barely any injuries to the core of their back 6 and their players matured together and became guns (Vlastuin, Astbury and Grimes weren't always deadset guns...). This is what we need with our defence and unfortunately plonking May at CHB will win us a few more 1v1s in the short term, it's the understanding and fluency in the medium/long term that we need to become a contender. WCE as well had Hurn/Sheppard (Until he did his hammy against us)/Barass/Mcgovern play most of the year together too from memory.

The way our defence sets up and is able to function is due to pressure anyway. It was pretty much the same back 6 as the two finals we won on the G and yet the result was completely different. Real and inferred pressure slows a team down, makes them second guess, makes them miss their kicks. Pretty much any team in the AFL can make the other team they're playing look like witches hats if they're allowed to move the ball how they want. On the weekend we barely laid a finger on Port and got sucked into the contest time and time again trying to right that wrong, but if you're reactive and flat footed - that dreaded "5-10% off" then it can be very difficult to turn around, especially when you're carrying unfit players. What Topkent was saying about the start of the year being quicker is probably a good bet too, Geelong last year murdered us on transition R1 last year from memory.

So what I'm saying is don't go grabbing your pitchforks and torches when May gets a bag kicked on him early days, because it will probably happen, especially if our pressure is down whilst we're still catching up fitness wise. It will be interesting to see what adaptions we can make with the 6/6/6 rule, maybe playing Preuss and dropping Gawn back consistently? Not sure

The correct answer is to complain that we should never have traded Hogan, convinced him to stay, and to have played him at CHB

Great post.

So much in the backline relies on instinctively knowing when each other is going to fly.

In my local career early days I remember me and another guy who were both lean 6’2 intercept defenders who would consistently spoil each other. It rooms 12 months but we built an understanding where we just both knew when the other was going to fly so other could stay down and guard the space.

Cohesion as a back 6 is way more important than as a forward group. We’ll spend all year getting Lever and May bedded down. But by finals when the whips crack we’ll be ok.

 

[schmuttt]

Frost is a proven liability. Again on the weekend he attempted a bat shit crazy run that resulted in a HTB and a port goal.

OMAC whilst conservative has a base you can work with. With Lever and May as the more creative types you need to have somebody that will stick to his task.

Keilty and/or Petty will both get their chance down back.

What is Omacs base? You could pluck any mature age VFL key defender and they'd do as good a job as OMac does.

 

[Andy_Mac]

What is Omacs base? You could pluck any mature age VFL key defender and they'd do as good a job as OMac does.

Bullshit. Keilty was a good VFL footballer when he got drafted and 2 years in to being a pro and he’s still only an outside chance at playing regular senior footy, directly completing with OMAC.

OMAC has been a little exposed 1v1, but otherwise beats frost in all other defensive facets.

 

[Topkent]

Bullshit. Keilty was a good VFL footballer when he got drafted and 2 years in to being a pro and he’s still only an outside chance at playing regular senior footy, directly completing with OMAC.

OMAC has been a little exposed 1v1, but otherwise beats frost in all other defensive facets.

That's not true.
Frost is better at tackling
Ground ball gets
Smothering
Rebounding

Omac has one job which is to shut down a key forward an he can't do that

Not to say Frost is much better, they both rubbish

 

[Andy_Mac]

That's not true.
Frost is better at tackling
Ground ball gets
Smothering
Rebounding

Omac has one job which is to shut down a key forward an he can't do that

Not to say Frost is much better, they both rubbish

Rebounding is attacking, i’d give you defence pressure but that’s not the primary skill set of 6’6 defender. You don’t have to agree with me, but I know it’s the view of our coaching group.

With Lever and May in the side OMAC offers a more complimentary skill set.

 

[Topkent]

Rebounding is attacking, i’d give you defence pressure but that’s not the primary skill set of 6’6 defender. You don’t have to agree with me, but I know it’s the view of our coaching group.

With Lever and May in the side OMAC offers a more complimentary skill set.

At the moment all I see Omac offering is barely better than the rest of the dross on our list. I'd rather more away from both Frost an Omac an look at Petty.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

At the moment all I see Omac offering is barely better than the rest of the dross on our list. I'd rather more away from both Frost an Omac an look at Petty.

Petty really is the only remaining long term option of the three. Frost is a dumb footballer and Oscar is as reliable in defence when the going gets tough as his brother was. HP won't be 20 until November though, and those under agers can take a year or two to hold their own.

 

[Topkent]

Petty really is the only remaining long term option of the three. Frost is a dumb footballer and Oscar is as reliable in defence when the going gets tough as his brother was. HP won't be 20 until November though, and those under agers can take a year or two to hold their own.

Oh I'm under no illusion that Petty is ready at all to go but I'd rather a new face disappointing supporters than the same old ones.

Thing is I never rated Omac an yet people were saying I was wrong last year, I'm not trying to gloat because he's still young but I reckon we have ****ed his confidence completely playing him so under developed. I just don't think having key forwards belting you every week teaches you anything.

I'd rather May take the Big forward, someone mind the 2nd tall an then one of Lever or someone else go for the intercept.

In the perfect world Omac would have been the shut down so that May an Lever could exploit their forwards but we just can't afford that

 

[DeesFanTheMan]

Oh I'm under no illusion that Petty is ready at all to go but I'd rather a new face disappointing supporters than the same old ones.

Thing is I never rated Omac an yet people were saying I was wrong last year, I'm not trying to gloat because he's still young but I reckon we have ****** his confidence completely playing him so under developed. I just don't think having key forwards belting you every week teaches you anything.

I'd rather May take the Big forward, someone mind the 2nd tall an then one of Lever or someone else go for the intercept.

In the perfect world Omac would have been the shut down so that May an Lever could exploit their forwards but we just can't afford that

Omac was genuinely great for a long periods last year.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Oh I'm under no illusion that Petty is ready at all to go but I'd rather a new face disappointing supporters than the same old ones.

Thing is I never rated Omac an yet people were saying I was wrong last year, I'm not trying to gloat because he's still young but I reckon we have ****** his confidence completely playing him so under developed. I just don't think having key forwards belting you every week teaches you anything.

I'd rather May take the Big forward, someone mind the 2nd tall an then one of Lever or someone else go for the intercept.

In the perfect world Omac would have been the shut down so that May an Lever could exploit their forwards but we just can't afford that

I think Oscar has shown enough in the last two years to not embarrass those (like me) that had faith, but I tend to agree that his inconsistency is largely a matter of being spooked by a few bad experiences. Maybe he'll thrive when played behind May and Lever, but it's difficult to have confidence that he could ever step up if we didn't have those two.

 

[Andy_Mac]

We are so harsh on some of our players....

OMAC has just turned 23 and has been our no. 1 KPD since he was 21.

With May and Lever in the side he’ll be a bloody good player.

 

[Topkent]

Omac was genuinely great for a long periods last year.

Great?
He was a passable key defender, as was Frost.

I think Oscar has shown enough in the last two years to not embarrass those (like me) that had faith, but I tend to agree that his inconsistency is largely a matter of being spooked by a few bad experiences. Maybe he'll thrive when played behind May and Lever, but it's difficult to have confidence that he could ever step up if we didn't have those two.

I don't think he's athletic enough to be the size that he is. To me he looks like when young Colin Garland was gonna be the better key defender than young Frawley, except chip got stronger an was unbeatable on the lead whilst Garlo never exceeded in any area

 

[Topkent]

We are so harsh on some of our players....

OMAC has just turned 23 and has been our no. 1 KPD since he was 21.

With May and Lever in the side he’ll be a bloody good player.

Daniel Talia was an AA @ 22
Rance started his run as an AA @ 24
McGovern @ 24

Etc.

He was only our number 1 key back because we had no other options an we had such little faith in him we spent 3 first rounders trying to improve our defence.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, I still don't see any skills that make him better than an average KPD at best.

 

[Topkent]

Rebounding is attacking, i’d give you defence pressure but that’s not the primary skill set of 6’6 defender. You don’t have to agree with me, but I know it’s the view of our coaching group.

With Lever and May in the side OMAC offers a more complimentary skill set.

Also I just saw this, so I presume you think Fritsch didn't deserve a game in the prelim an that picking Viney an Jones for round 1 were definently great choices.

 

[Andy_Mac]

Also I just saw this, so I presume you think Fritsch didn't deserve a game in the prelim an that picking Viney an Jones for round 1 were definently great choices.

They picked Smith purely for match ups. If Lever was available he takes the spot.

Viney and Jones has lots of friends.

 

[Topkent]

They picked Smith purely for match ups. If Lever was available he takes the spot.

Viney and Jones has lots of friends.

No they didn't have alot of friends who had played 1 half of VFL football before the start of the season

 

[rhaz]

If we are fully fit, on paper our backline would be one of the best in the league.

May - Top 5~ KPD
Lever -Top 3 intercept defender
Jetta - Top 2 small defender
Salem - One of the better emerging half back distributors going around

Around that you have Oscar (solid but needs to get better) and Hibberd (former star, could be starting to decline).

The challenge is to get those guys working as a unit when fit, and then keeping them fit.

 

[Topkent]

If we are fully fit, on paper our backline would be one of the best in the league.

May - Top 5~ KPD
Lever -Top 3 intercept defender
Jetta - Top 2 small defender
Salem - One of the better emerging half back distributors going around

Around that you have Oscar (solid but needs to get better) and Hibberd (former star, could be starting to decline).

The challenge is to get those guys working as a unit when fit, and then keeping them fit.

I'll give you Jetta, the rest are more hope than certainty.

I rate May but I'm not sure he's a top 5 key defender, he has to play well to earn that.

Grimes
Talia
Andrews
Hurley
Tarrant
Barass

I wouldn't have may infront of any of those until he proves himself with us

As for Lever he's coming back from his 2nd knee, I love what he does but same with him. Still got to prove he's top 3.

Rance
Sicily
McGovern
Howe
Stewart
Vlastuin

All infront now

Salem is emerging as you said, still not in the top few yet until he does more often.

Outside of Jetta we have a poor defence until proven differently and 3 huge scores we have conceded so far along with last year's is proof of that.