List Mgmt. The midfield - past, present and future.

[Jeffcrowe]

Does anyone think Atkins is capable of more than pure wing? Could it be that we are easing him in to the midfield via his current role?

Despite being a fanbois of his, I'm not certain whether he has that capability or not. Just putting it out there

Definitely !!!!

Although there is nothing wrong with being a good winger - it's a highly specialised and important position

Will depend on where we need him most going forward - eg hypothetical we recruit Neale and atkins stays on wing

Hypothetical 2 like a Sam Mayes type then atkins could shift into central midfield and become inside/ outside mid we need

He definitely has the capability

Ditto Milera but will take a couple of years to see him regularly in there

 

[ThreeLeggedCrow]

Stick a broom through the lot.. and bring in "CEY, Betts, Cameron, Hampton and Milera" to be known as "The Deadly Magic" .

 

[Jeffcrowe]

We need to roll more players through midfield

Cameron, smith , Menzel ( if he plays), Atkins , laird, Milera should all spend some time in the centre square during every game they play - some more than others

But it will 1. Keep us fresh and more able to apply defensive pressure in there through higher energy bursts
2. Help us develop more mids internally so we don't just rely on getting more in through trade/draft ( which we should do as well)
3. Find out who can play there long term
4 and most of all- what is the point in having versatile players which pykey seems to love if we are not going to use them in versatile ways ??!!

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Exactly, we could fix 75% of our issues in the middle right now with better structure and better balanced mix with increased rotations instead of parking the same geriatrics and turtles in the same spots every bounce.

If we do not give all our potential midfield options for 2017 a decent crack at some mid time this year but instead play the same old guys in there then we are downright stupid.

The Cameron run upfield should be the norm not the exception.

The other 25% will come with experience plus recruiting.

 

[HarryCrow]

You are correct, there are no excuses. Just valid reasons.

Came off a 4 goal SANFL game. His form was fine. He choked at the step up. There's no excuse for 2 kicks for a player of his quality

He also came in as an emergency replacement.

 

[Anzacpaul]

Wondering if The Don is all about seeing how far he can get in his first year (obviously). Just thinking if he was realistic and said ok lets get a good look at our young team this year and see where we are at come end of season might help to decide our midfield going forward over the trade/delisting period.

In my opinion there's no point playing douglas, thommo, VB and Mackay all year unless you want to try and push as far as you can this year. I'd argue even doing that isn't net beneficial, but you could see why they're sticking with the seniors as opposed to younger players who likely with a season under their belt would be comparable to douglas, VB and mackay at least. Thommo will take care of Thommo.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

I would love to see Menzel build up his fitness throughout the year , then use him in the midfield next season..

 

[mattymac]

Do you understand how difficult AFL football is?

You just can not come in and dominate from day 1 and then add a limited pre season.

This season the match committee needs to take responsabity for both Crouch and Knights form for picking them too early.

Drugs Are Bad Mackay? makes a very good point with CEY, he was the player who should have been picked as he was in form.

No one asked him to dominate. Just to perform.

That's what gets 6 figures for

 

[Sam_Malone]

No one asked him to dominate. Just to perform.

That's what gets 6 figures for

I love it how it always comes back to money.

 

[mattymac]

He also came in as an emergency replacement.

Just to be clear, that's just another excuse not a valid reason.

That's the whole point of traveling emergencies. So we have someone on the scene who is ready to step in and perform

It's a performance industry.

 

[mattymac]

I love it how it always comes back to money.

It's a performance industry.

Riley Knight is not your friend.

 

[Rear Admiral]

We have been discussing this predicament across a number of different threads, so, let's discuss the elephant in the room.

How can we get better productivity out of out current midfield?

In the past, we would have left the midfield clearances to an aging Scott Thompson who's body is breaking down and much, muc closer towards the end than it is toi the start of his career and the Geelong Cat's new guy in Patrick Dangerfield. Now, unless you have just come back from the moon - we no longer have Dangerfield to rely on and the past 2 weeks, Thompson has had 2 shocker against 2 quality teams.

Therefore we can not rely on those 2 players anymore and now the pressure and enormously high expectations gets dumped onto Rory Sloane, Richard Douglas and the 2 Crouch brothers shoulders to march us through another season.

IMO, this isn't sustainable as the Crouch brothers are still young and Douyglas doesn't have the ablity to be the number 1 man in a top 4 midfield. That leaves Sloane and the longer we place that pressure and workload on him, the shorter his career will be. We need to recuit, develop or draft some help. But who?

This weekend, out starting midfield will look like this

C: Cameron ~ Thompson ~ Atkins
R: Jacobs ~ Sloane ~ Douglas

IMO - that isn't very inspirational. That midfield doesn't scream, look at me and watch out we are coming to get you. It doesn't scream, we are a top 4 midfield. It screams, apply a small bit of pressure as we will roll over.

C: Smith ~ Thompson ~ Seedsman
R: Jacobs ~ Sloane ~ B. Crouch

This still isn't very inspirational but it does give you a glimmer of hope it can become a top 4 midfield in 2 or 3 years time. Then you add Milera, Atkins, Cameron and M. Crouch playing their roles on the half forward and midfield we are slowly adding depth.

This is not a "let's tank" for a high draft pick thread as we have enough jigsaw pieces already to build for a top 8 die, now we just need to put them into the right place to allow that combination to grow. Then if we can add 1 or 2 mature bodies with 1 or 2 quality draft picks, we then have the depth to grow fior the future and look beyond the next 24 hours.

Premierships are won 36 months before the game, not 22 games before hand. It's about getting all the right pieces in the right place. We don't have that anymore.

So, I guess my question is -

1) how can the midfield get better?
2) What player characteristics do you want to see in a midfilder to help our midfield improve?
3) what sort of player do we need to recuit or draft?
4) Are any free agent midfielder available and would they automatically help for the now?
5) who should we build a midfield around?

Absolutely no personal disrespect to anyone here or at the Crows.


Sam,

First and foremost, you should be given a medal for starting this Thread .
Secondly, this is not the White Elephant in the room, no. This is the fluorescent elephant with big, bright, flashing neon lights...and sirens.
To make some improvement, the absolute #1 thing we must do is drop absolutely each and every longterm veteran from our list. i.e.:

• Scott Thompson
• Richard Douglas
• Nathan van Berlo
• David MacKay

Not rest them, not drop them gradually, not have a gradual transition, no. We need to step down each and every one of them....right f*cking now. Are they still in contract? Fine. Either:

• Play them in the Magoos.
• Don't play them at all.
• Offer to pay them out.

It's that simple. These guys have been on our list for f*ckin yeeeeeeeeeeeeeears, but their time is up.

For those readers who disagree with these comments - your opinions are duly and respectfully noted, but we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Whatever statements you wish to make - feel free. However they are falling on deaf ears. In absolutely no way, shape, or form is this about "tanking" - not one bit. In past seasons we may have had lean pickings, in terms of ready talent available to the selection committee, but now that is absolutely not the case. We have a smorgasbord of talent to pick from now, and we just aren't doing it. I've recently listened to a few of our Podcasts, and in particular:

https://www.spreaker.com/user/aflcrowcast/tnl-episode-9-smacked-by-the-cats

If you listen to around 41:25 - 42:00, we've had numerous proven ball-winners on our list for years....YEARS. But we just aren't giving them a regular gig. We need to either play them now, or have gotten rid of them previously. I am absolutely convinced beyond words....set into granite....that what's happening now at the selection table is not about good or bad players, no. This is about some private, backroom politics, and special favours for some names over others, and that's all there is to it. I don't know who's pulling the strings, but these are anything but honest, impartial selection decisions. This is an absolute travesty of justice, and it has to change now.
Sure, we need to snare a talented Mid from another club, no question about it. But we've got heaps of blokes that we can rotate through the Middle right now to help The Sloane Ranger:

• Cam Ellis-Yoleman
• Jarryd Lyons
• Charlie Cameron
• Eddie Betts
• Brodie Smith
• Wayne Milera
• Dean Gore
• Paul Seedsman
• Brucey Laird
  
• Both Crouch's - Brad has just come back from a long layoff - give him some chance to get up to pace.

If we can't mix and match our clearance Mids from that list, then whoever disagrees is on a planet other than Earth. If we have to move Defenders into the Midfield-mix, fine. We've got schittloads of players to choose from to shuffle the deck chairs. What we need is serious pace and agility in the middle, and our veteran Mids just do not offer this....at all.
And this habit of dropping Rookies after just one or two bad games is ridiculous. Rookies need to be given time to improve. But at the Crows, we wait until our veterans go into a retirement village before our next generation get a crack.

I have said it in previous posts, and I will continue to say it again and again - if you haven't sent emails/letters/faxes to the Crows about this List Management ass-hattery, then you need to start now. And get every Crows supporter you know to do likewise.

 

[Rear Admiral]

the same geriatrics and turtles in the same spots every bounce.

 

[Sam_Malone]

Rear Admiral - great post. Agree with everything and yes, the e mail has been spent.

 

[morris086]

So, I guess my question is -

1) how can the midfield get better?
2) What player characteristics do you want to see in a midfilder to help our midfield improve?
3) what sort of player do we need to recuit or draft?
4) Are any free agent midfielder available and would they automatically help for the now?
5) who should we build a midfield around?

1) Smith in the middle, Cameron on the wing, Knight in the middle. Stop relying on Sauce to Thompson. If Lyons is in the afl side
play him in the bloody middle! Have a plan b for when our outside players get shut down that doesn't consist of just bombing it forward.

2) Good sized ball winners with above average skills who can spread from the contest. The type of player that Sydney seem
to pick up.

3) As above. Players to target from other clubs would be 23 and under proven performers (Neale, Prestia etc. I know they are short but
their results speak for them self) or my preferred option, under 21 year olds who cant crack into a strong midfield (Steele, Hewett, Dumont maybe).
I think we are good for Outside-ish players now so no to Mayes, Broomhead etc. I'm not sure who in the draft I'd want just yet.
Also a better midfield coach, if Lyons, Grigg and Cey haven't progressed to the point that they are challenging under performing senior players
for midfield minutes, then questions need to be asked of their coach.

4) Nope.

5) The Crouch brothers, Knight and Cameron for now. Maybe Milera and Menzel.

I think the club has been caught flat footed when it comes to our midfield. They should have targeted outside types a year earlier
than they did and the lack of planning for Danger leaving and Thommo retiring is poor. Last year the games we lost were mostly due
to coming up against superior midfields and this year the pattern has continued. A ready to go midfielder should have been brought in
last year regardless if Danger stayed or left. Poor list managing imo.

 

[Sam_Malone]

Tom Mitchell would be a very nice get if we could pry him out him out of the Habour City.

A contested ball winning beast is exactly what we were looking for.

And Eli Templeton? Any interest.

 

[Hell Boy6669]

Tom Mitchell would be a very nice get if we could pry him out him out of the Habour City.

A contested ball winning beast is exactly what we were looking for.

And Eli Templeton? Any interest.

I dont rate Mitchell, Matt Crouch could be a better footballer.

 

[Sam_Malone]

I hope we are talking to Caleb Marchbank from GWS.

He is listed as a 190 cm defender but I think he will turn into a tall running wing/midfielder like Patrick Cripps from Carlton.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Does anyone think Atkins is capable of more than pure wing? Could it be that we are easing him in to the midfield via his current role?

Despite being a fanbois of his, I'm not certain whether he has that capability or not. Just putting it out there

Stevie j took centre square bounces in his prime as was smart around clearances... So I wouldn't rule out the rat.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

We need to roll more players through midfield

Cameron, smith , Menzel ( if he plays), Atkins , laird, Milera should all spend some time in the centre square during every game they play - some more than others

But it will 1. Keep us fresh and more able to apply defensive pressure in there through higher energy bursts
2. Help us develop more mids internally so we don't just rely on getting more in through trade/draft ( which we should do as well)
3. Find out who can play there long term
4 and most of all- what is the point in having versatile players which pykey seems to love if we are not going to use them in versatile ways ??!!

Absolutely.

Was just about to post the midfield isn't about the starting 6 - it's about them + 2 mids on the bench + 2+ up forward or down back who can rotate through different roles.

 

[Rear Admiral]

Rear Admiral - great post. Agree with everything and yes, the e mail has been spent.

spent?

 

[Rear Admiral]

Exactly, we could fix 75% of our issues in the middle right now with better structure and better balanced mix with increased rotations instead of parking the same geriatrics and turtles in the same spots every bounce.

The other 25% will come with experience plus recruiting.

Was just about to post the midfield isn't about the starting 6 - it's about them + 2 mids on the bench + 2+ up forward or down back who can rotate through different roles.

Now these posts that have nailed it - thanks guys .

Yes, we do need to get an established Mid from another side, but for goodness sake, we've got a ton of ground-level players that we can rotate through the midfield-centre square. But we're just not f*cking doing it. Any changes to our current clearance-Mids would mean dropping our Veterans....where some/all are obviously a protected species.

And again....we need those emails overwhelming the AFC mail servers, and not stop.

 

[Thetrader15]

It's a performance industry.

Riley Knight is not your friend.

We need to realize its a 'performance industry' and start to play players in form not based on whatvthey have done in the last 5 years (VB, Smith v CEY, Grigg, Gore

 

[Golumless]

We need to realize its a 'performance industry' and start to play players in form not based on whatvthey have done in the last 5 years (VB, Smith v CEY, Grigg, Gore

Smith is a harsh call here, probably only had a 1-2 down games, and both since Laird was out.

That said, he hasn't been hitting the rolled gold standards he did when he got the AA gig.

 

[Rear Admiral]

Also a better midfield coach, if Lyons, Grigg and Cey haven't progressed to the point that they are challenging under performing senior players for midfield minutes, then questions need to be asked of their coach.

A change in midfield coach may or may not improve these players, but I doubt it. I'm also willing to bet that our midfield coach has absolutely nothing to do with these guys not getting a regular Guernsey in the senior side - not one single iota to do with it.
It's the fact that someone in the Hierarchy just won't allow some/all our veterans to get dropped. At the AFC, their priority is emotional, tear-filled, back-slapping send-offs for our beloved veterans....not winning a Premiership. Fix that problem, and the other issues will all start to fall like dominoes.

Again....start sending those emails to AFC peoples.