Mega Thread The new Bucks mega-thread. It's Official. 2 Year Deal for Bucks.

[Carringbush2010]

There are two main pieces of evidence:
1. The players' support for the coach.
2. The coachs' desire to succeed.

Obviously so far - not enough

 

[HeathySure]

They looked at the list, decided that despite W/L column, there are enough signs (close losses etc) to show the team is improving under Buckley and stuck with the formula.

They looked at the other available coaching candidates and decided that Buckley was best man to handle the job for now.

Other CFC employees are intrinsically tied to Buckley and therefore want him to keep the job for their own interests.


These are the reasons that have been discussed to death by all posters. Pick the one that best suits your argument and we can all move on.

lol
is that what you believe?
thats the question i am asking of the Buckley supporters, not asking why the club reappointed him, I know why.
Anyway i am not going to go on with this . as everyone has said its been done to death
but i still dont get answers to my question

 

[Carringbush2010]

We have buy in. System and structure are improving. This is more than just hope.

System? You could argue that's the reason we are where we are and the existence of this thread - needs a world of improvement if we are to see anything optimistic

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Development Saintly; turns spuds into good players sometimes very good players - development

Oh I see, good point

 

[Carringbush2010]

Time and again we see posts saying "flogging a dead horse" or "ad nauseum" - 3 points

1 The reason we are flogging a dead horse and repeating ad nauseum is that there are opposing views as to why and the validity that Nathan has been re appointed

2 We are on what's called a forum where you can vent your disapproval or defend the decision - it was designed for that

3 If you do not like the constant repeating of all the reasons / opinions there is actually a way to avoid it. No one is obliged to keep reading or posting - that's hard I know as we are all human (I hope)

FWIW I like popcorn and enjoy the many valid arguments as much as the hard to believe / not answering etc. as well throwing in my 2 cents.

Enjoy or leave!

 

[jackcass]

Time and again we see posts saying "flogging a dead horse" or "ad nauseum" - 3 points

1 The reason we are flogging a dead horse and repeating ad nauseum is that there are opposing views as to why and the validity that Nathan has been re appointed

2 We are on what's called a forum where you can vent your disapproval or defend the decision - it was designed for that

3 If you do not like the constant repeating of all the reasons / opinions there is actually a way to avoid it. No one is obliged to keep reading or posting - that's hard I know as we are all human (I hope)

FWIW I like popcorn and enjoy the many valid arguments as much as the hard to believe / not answering etc. as well throwing in my 2 cents.

Enjoy or leave!

Go on, trot out the same mindless crap...

• x years of decline balh blah blah blah
• nothing but excuses blah blah blah
• dismantled a premiership side blah blah blah
• the youngest GF side blah blah blah

And as usual, don't bother putting any meat on any of those bones. We know you can't, because any in depth analysis of the evidence shows different.

And then accuse those with opposing views of being sycophants or blindly loyal supporters....

Yawn!

 

[Carringbush2010]

Go on, trot out the same mindless crap...

• x years of decline balh blah blah blah
• nothing but excuses blah blah blah
• dismantled a premiership side blah blah blah
• the youngest GF side blah blah blah

And as usual, don't bother putting any meat on any of those bones. We know you can't, because any in depth analysis of the evidence shows different.

And then accuse those with opposing views of being sycophants or blindly loyal supporters....

Yawn!

Yep, seems it won't stop either - we just added 2 posts ourselves Jack. And those bullet points you pointed out is to some valid points and then there are those who oppose them and then groundhog day.............. I love it!

 

[Jasper84]

Time and again we see posts saying "flogging a dead horse" or "ad nauseum" - 3 points

1 The reason we are flogging a dead horse and repeating ad nauseum is that there are opposing views as to why and the validity that Nathan has been re appointed

2 We are on what's called a forum where you can vent your disapproval or defend the decision - it was designed for that

3 If you do not like the constant repeating of all the reasons / opinions there is actually a way to avoid it. No one is obliged to keep reading or posting - that's hard I know as we are all human (I hope)

FWIW I like popcorn and enjoy the many valid arguments as much as the hard to believe / not answering etc. as well throwing in my 2 cents.

Enjoy or leave!

1. The reason that you are flogging a dead horse and repeating ad nauseum is because you choose not to read all of the previous posts that covered your point over and over again. One of the reasons that the "like" button exists is so that you don't end up with 50 people replying with "I agree with your point"

2. Yes, it is a forum where you can vent your approval/disproval. The issue is that if posters keep effectively posting the same thing, other posters get bored and stop reading the thread. Eventually you end up with the 3 most vocal people left and the thread becomes a wasteland.

3. Due to the above, a lot of the knowledgeable and insightful posters who don't comment as often choose your ultimatum and bypass the thread, depriving us all of a richer discussion.

If you enjoy the arguments and interesting discussions, you have to make an effort to keep the conversation moving forward, otherwise you will get your soapbox but no audience to hear you.

 

[Maggie5]

Time and again we see posts saying "flogging a dead horse" or "ad nauseum" - 3 points

1 The reason we are flogging a dead horse and repeating ad nauseum is that there are opposing views as to why and the validity that Nathan has been re appointed

2 We are on what's called a forum where you can vent your disapproval or defend the decision - it was designed for that

3 If you do not like the constant repeating of all the reasons / opinions there is actually a way to avoid it. No one is obliged to keep reading or posting - that's hard I know as we are all human (I hope)

FWIW I like popcorn and enjoy the many valid arguments as much as the hard to believe / not answering etc. as well throwing in my 2 cents.

Enjoy or leave!

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

there is no correlation because they both took over in completely different circumstances. Hardwick improved his team from the start. Buckley did not. Hardwick may have had a bad year but took the criticism on board and look what happened. Buckley has had 6 years to change his ways.. he has not so far. Will he? why would we reappoint him when 6 years of evidence shows he hasn't done it in the past.
you never answered my question

No correlation due to taking over in different circumstances? I'm sure you understand that as long as some variables are similar that there can be a correlation. Now the strength of that relationship is in question rather than the mere existence of a relationship.
This year was his first good run without major injuries and we fell short. In that case, when it was done and dusted, I thought that it was time to move on for a number of reasons but game style wasn't one of them.
What you won't see me doing is arguing that he can't turn it around purely because I thought he should be gone.
Now what some of Buckley's biggest critics need to do is look at the list from my original post, tick off the characteristics that they attached to Buckley and then admit that there is a relationship between the two cases. If people think Hardwick only displayed those behaviours in a s**t year, they're kidding themselves.
I get it that you're pissed off that he was re-appointed and looking to find ways to counter those who have found some hope in the Hardwick case.....but the no correlation line doesn't work.

 

[HeathySure]

No correlation due to taking over in different circumstances? I'm sure you understand that as long as some variables are similar that there can be a correlation. Now the strength of that relationship is in question rather than the mere existence of a relationship.
This year was his first good run without major injuries and we fell short. In that case, when it was done and dusted, I thought that it was time to move on for a number of reasons but game style wasn't one of them.
What you won't see me doing is arguing that he can't turn it around purely because I thought he should be gone.
Now what some of Buckley's biggest critics need to do is look at the list from my original post, tick off the characteristics that they attached to Buckley and then admit that there is a relationship between the two cases. If people think Hardwick only displayed those behaviours in a s**t year, they're kidding themselves.
I get it that you're pissed off that he was re-appointed and looking to find ways to counter those who have found some hope in the Hardwick case.....but the no correlation line doesn't work.

could write a soliloquy but lets agree to disagree

I

 

[HeathySure]

1. The reason that you are flogging a dead horse and repeating ad nauseum is because you choose not to read all of the previous posts that covered your point over and over again. One of the reasons that the "like" button exists is so that you don't end up with 50 people replying with "I agree with your point"

2. Yes, it is a forum where you can vent your approval/disproval. The issue is that if posters keep effectively posting the same thing, other posters get bored and stop reading the thread. Eventually you end up with the 3 most vocal people left and the thread becomes a wasteland.

3. Due to the above, a lot of the knowledgeable and insightful posters who don't comment as often choose your ultimatum and bypass the thread, depriving us all of a richer discussion.

If you enjoy the arguments and interesting discussions, you have to make an effort to keep the conversation moving forward, otherwise you will get your soapbox but no audience to hear you.

I have a problem with this argument.
Of course we all have different opinions and most want to state it. Why we get the same things going over and over is that new people join and new people want to voice their opinions and they have not read the previous discussions and they want to voice their opinions. If you want to have a healthy vibrant board you need these new people to discuss old topics, and they might bring in new topics to discuss that might be insightful and enjoyable. So we have to go over old ground. You want to see a thread that goes over the same things over and over go to the trade thread. But that's great. i like that people want to have their opinion on what they want and do want for Collingwood (for the love of god no Stringer!) but who has the paitence to read everything.
It annoys me when new guys do post they get attacked saying "what was your old name" etc. Guys like Help My Club, Tkil and Westozpie are newish, have brought differnet sides to the argument and have not attacked anyone yet guys attack HMC and Tkil. So what you get is a big clique because newbies dont want to post.
This has always been a problem in all internet forums, you cannot control what all people like and most people like conversing with the same people.
so i see no problem in this subject regurgitating every few months. let the people have their say, and if the old people dont like it dont read it , and Dont attack the person making the comment cos we all were newbies once too.

 

[Help My Club]

This connection/correlation argument regarding Hardwick and Buckley is very interesting.

Whose to know whether these 2 characters/personalities are closely correlated. I don't know both men personally so one can only have an opinion based on observation, be that right or wrong. I guess if they are highly correlated personalities, then it could be argued with some conviction that the Pies could replicate the Tigers 2017 success in 2018.

So on that note, I found it interesting listening to Riewoldt after the Tigers PF win over the weekend. If I recall, and I am happy to stand corrected, he stated that at the end of 2016, Hardwick effectively stripped himself back/open and was subject to a high level of scrutiny which he genuinely took on board and apportioned appropriate blame/fault upon himself. He the took action to change. If this is true, this may have been a major catalyst for change and subsequently has contributed to their considerable turn around in 2017.

So going back to the correlation argument, is our senior coach capable of the same genuine change behaviours ? If so, then McGuire's argument of following the Richmond model may have merit. Time will tell.

 

[Carringbush2010]

View attachment 421286

Hi to you too Maggie

 

[Carringbush2010]

1. The reason that you are flogging a dead horse and repeating ad nauseum is because you choose not to read all of the previous posts that covered your point over and over again. One of the reasons that the "like" button exists is so that you don't end up with 50 people replying with "I agree with your point"

2. Yes, it is a forum where you can vent your approval/disproval. The issue is that if posters keep effectively posting the same thing, other posters get bored and stop reading the thread. Eventually you end up with the 3 most vocal people left and the thread becomes a wasteland.

3. Due to the above, a lot of the knowledgeable and insightful posters who don't comment as often choose your ultimatum and bypass the thread, depriving us all of a richer discussion.

If you enjoy the arguments and interesting discussions, you have to make an effort to keep the conversation moving forward, otherwise you will get your soapbox but no audience to hear you.

Actually I'm pretty sure I have read every post, and I'll add my opinion - again; in reply and won't be the last. I don't think Nathan should've been re appointed and hazard a guess you'll reply - again

Ground hog day

Ground hog day

Ground hog day

Ground hog day

 

[Maggie5]

Okay, just to change the subject slightly...

My 2018 prediction is that Buckley will have us in the eight and maybe finishing in the top four (hopefully playing off in GF).

I will review again after the trade/draft period.

 

[dansa]

Okay, just to change the subject slightly...

My 2018 prediction is that Buckley will have us in the eight and maybe finishing in the top four (hopefully playing off in GF).

I will review again after the trade/draft period.

If we have luck with injuries similar to Richmond this year it's a monty.

 

[Help My Club]

I have a problem with this argument.
Of course we all have different opinions and most want to state it. Why we get the same things going over and over is that new people join and new people want to voice their opinions and they have not read the previous discussions and they want to voice their opinions. If you want to have a healthy vibrant board you need these new people to discuss old topics, and they might bring in new topics to discuss that might be insightful and enjoyable. So we have to go over old ground. You want to see a thread that goes over the same things over and over go to the trade thread. But that's great. i like that people want to have their opinion on what they want and do want for Collingwood (for the love of god no Stringer!) but who has the paitence to read everything.
It annoys me when new guys do post they get attacked saying "what was your old name" etc. Guys like Help My Club, Tkil and Westozpie are newish, have brought differnet sides to the argument and have not attacked anyone yet guys attack HMC and Tkil. So what you get is a big clique because newbies dont want to post.
This has always been a problem in all internet forums, you cannot control what all people like and most people like conversing with the same people.
so i see no problem in this subject regurgitating every few months. let the people have their say, and if the old people dont like it dont read it , and Dont attack the person making the comment cos we all were newbies once too.

I fully support your comments Heath. Well done.

Now we are all big boys and can handle ourselves. But there is no doubt that whilst these internet forums claim to be balanced, they are just not. Regarding the Buckley thread in particular, and then by extension McGuire, the majority of participants on this forum are pro which is completely their right. However, those of us who have a converse position are tolerated for a period of time before being subject to regular vitriolic attack by a number of parties (not you Saintly - you are the consummate gentleman). The argument being that we are going over old ground time and time again. Well maybe that's because we are truly passionate about our stance.

Further, when it comes to a numbers game, I would argue that those who are "pro" collectively comment/reaffirm their position far more often that those on the other side. And yet, I don't see too many in the opposing camp aggressively attacking those in the "pro" camp.

So let's cut to the chase and at least call it for what it is. Whilst the intent is to have a healthy vibrant board, ultimately it doesn't end up this way.

 

[Anzacday]

I fully support your comments Heath. Well done.
However, those of us who have a converse position are tolerated for a period of time before being subject to regular vitriolic attack by a number of parties (not you Saintly - you are the consummate gentleman).

1If us mods have missed that, I apologise on our behalf and ask you to please use the report button in future.

The argument being that we are going over old ground time and time again. Well maybe that's because we are truly passionate about our stance.

From a personal perspective, I am more than happy for healthy debate to occur.
2The point, (in case it was missed) I made with my earlier post is it's all been said before and continuing to post about it won't change his coaching tenure.

Further, when it comes to a numbers game, I would argue that those who are "pro" collectively comment/reaffirm their position far more often that those on the other side.

You may be mistaking regularity with the volume of different posters.

And yet, I don't see too many in the opposing camp aggressively attacking those in the "pro" camp.

1See above

So let's cut to the chase and at least call it for what it is. Whilst the intent is to have a healthy vibrant board, ultimately it doesn't end up this way.

2See above

I know you are relatively new to the board however, your dialogue is not, nor is what you're saying the first time you've said it.
Given your passion and desire for change and bearing in mind that change won't occur by posting on here, maybe an email or a good old-fashioned hand written letter to Ed and the CEO might be in order, what do you think?

 

[Help My Club]

1If us mods have missed that, I apologise on our behalf and ask you to please use the report button in future.

From a personal perspective, I am more than happy for healthy debate to occur.
2The point, (in case it was missed) I made with my earlier post is it's all been said before and continuing to post about it won't change his coaching tenure.

You may be mistaking regularity with the volume of different posters.

1See above

2See above

I know you are relatively new to the board however, your dialogue is not, nor is what you're saying the first time you've said it.
Given your passion and desire for change and bearing in mind that change won't occur by posting on here, maybe an email or a good old-fashioned hand written letter to Ed and the CEO might be in order, what do you think?

Naturally Anzac, my comments above were in no way directed at the moderators, who I think in the short time I have been on board, have been first class and sensitive to these often difficult and highly charged topics. In particular, you have been very accommodating. Kudos!

No apologies are required nor sought. Far from it and it was never my intention in any event. And I certainly have no desire to use the report button (had no idea it existed actually). On second thoughts, I might use it to report my old mate Saintly for being too nice and reasoned a bloke.

The suggestion to contact McGuire and/or the Club directly, whilst an option, I think deep down even you know would be a wasted exercise. Any contact would likely be viewed as just another disgruntled supporter and dealt with accordingly ie summarily dismissed.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

This connection/correlation argument regarding Hardwick and Buckley is very interesting.

Whose to know whether these 2 characters/personalities are closely correlated. I don't know both men personally so one can only have an opinion based on observation, be that right or wrong. I guess if they are highly correlated personalities, then it could be argued with some conviction that the Pies could replicate the Tigers 2017 success in 2018.

So on that note, I found it interesting listening to Riewoldt after the Tigers PF win over the weekend. If I recall, and I am happy to stand corrected, he stated that at the end of 2016, Hardwick effectively stripped himself back/open and was subject to a high level of scrutiny which he genuinely took on board and apportioned appropriate blame/fault upon himself. He the took action to change. If this is true, this may have been a major catalyst for change and subsequently has contributed to their considerable turn around in 2017.

So going back to the correlation argument, is our senior coach capable of the same genuine change behaviours ? If so, then McGuire's argument of following the Richmond model may have merit. Time will tell.

Hence why I argued that saying there was absolutely no correlation between the two cases is flawed. We can't be sure either way. I just found it interesting that some posters attributed Hardwick's characterisitics to Buckley and yet will most likely argue vehemently that the two cases aren't related at all.

 

[Maggie5]

1If us mods have missed that, I apologise on our behalf and ask you to please use the report button in future.

From a personal perspective, I am more than happy for healthy debate to occur.
2The point, (in case it was missed) I made with my earlier post is it's all been said before and continuing to post about it won't change his coaching tenure.

You may be mistaking regularity with the volume of different posters.

1See above

2See above

I know you are relatively new to the board however, your dialogue is not, nor is what you're saying the first time you've said it.
Given your passion and desire for change and bearing in mind that change won't occur by posting on here, maybe an email or a good old-fashioned hand written letter to Ed and the CEO might be in order, what do you think?

You forgot to mention the 'ignore option', that is also a very useful too if comments aren't reportable but just annoying. I find it very useful.

 

[left at home]

I fully support your comments Heath. Well done.

Now we are all big boys and can handle ourselves. But there is no doubt that whilst these internet forums claim to be balanced, they are just not. Regarding the Buckley thread in particular, and then by extension McGuire, the majority of participants on this forum are pro which is completely their right. However, those of us who have a converse position are tolerated for a period of time before being subject to regular vitriolic attack by a number of parties (not you Saintly - you are the consummate gentleman). The argument being that we are going over old ground time and time again. Well maybe that's because we are truly passionate about our stance.

Further, when it comes to a numbers game, I would argue that those who are "pro" collectively comment/reaffirm their position far more often that those on the other side. And yet, I don't see too many in the opposing camp aggressively attacking those in the "pro" camp.

So let's cut to the chase and at least call it for what it is. Whilst the intent is to have a healthy vibrant board, ultimately it doesn't end up this way.

I think that the board was 60-70% in favour of bucks being replaced. But once the decision was made, it was accepted by most on here even if some were not happy about it. We have moved on.
If next season starts badly then you will be in the thick of it, till then you few are on your own. There have been thousands of pages on this with nearly every one having their say, so l am sorry if you find us not interested, we are worn out by it. Most are trying to look forward and hoping it will be brighter.
But keep posting on here, and keep up the rage if that is what you want to do

 

[left at home]

You forgot to mention the 'ignore option', that is also a very useful too if comments aren't reportable but just annoying. I find it very useful.

Gee you could half the board missing, where's the fun in that.

 

[Maggie5]

Gee you could half the board missing, where's the fun in that.

I have had to do it as it makes reading threads that much more enjoyable.

The temptation is not to click on 'show ignored'.