The next righteous LNP mission: Let's gut the NDIS

[Chief]

or people who have lost their vision being asked to prove they are still blind

How would you do it? Slide a note in front of them "If you can read this, I owe you a million dollars!" and see what they do?

Throw bricks in front of them as they walk?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

How would you do it? Slide a note in front of them "If you can read this, I owe you a million dollars!" and see what they do?

Throw bricks in front of them as they walk?

its just odd. a culture similar to DESE has snuck in, where its assumed everyone is a scammer and they have to prove they are genuine

 

[Maggie5]

Labor replacing Liberal stooges with Labor stooges. Should see things turn around !

Think maybe one was a stooge - and now gone. The other at least has some background and qualifications in the area.

Martin Holman led the Services Australia Taskforce for Minister Stuart Robert. He was Secretary of the NSW Department of Finance, Services and Innovation for four years from August 2015. He was previously Deputy Secretary at the Commonwealth Department of Industry & Science from July 2010, after joining the APS in March 2009 in the Department of the Prime Minister & Cabinet.

Dr Lisa Studdert joined the Agency on 3 August 2020. Prior to this, Dr Studdert was Deputy Secretary of the Population Health, Sport, Cancer and Health Workforce Group at the Department of Health. She has worked previously in the office of Minister Greg Hunt and was Chief of Staff to former Health Minister, Sussan Ley. From 2011– 13, Dr Studdert was a member of the senior leadership team at the Australian National Preventive Health Agency. She also has a background working in population health policy and programs in Australia and internationally. Dr Studdert is a PhD graduate of Cornell University.

 

[HairyO]

you think a paralyzed person being told they have to prove they are still paralyzed to maintain funding supports is a sign of a well run NDIA?

if so, you're burying the lead. who would bother scamming the NDIA when they have found a cure of being paralyzed?

Did they say that everyone had to undergo independent assessments? I thought the idea was raised and then cancelled?

Plus, I suspect it would be a pretty quick assessment for many (permanently deaf, blind, paralysed, and so on) while there are many who may well not have life-long disabilities which should be reviewed.

The main issue would be whether the independent assessment follows different requirements to the NDIS assessment.

 

[yodellinhank]

Did they say that everyone had to undergo independent assessments? I thought the idea was raised and then cancelled?

Plus, I suspect it would be a pretty quick assessment for many (permanently deaf, blind, paralysed, and so on) while there are many who may well not have life-long disabilities which should be reviewed.

The main issue would be whether the independent assessment follows different requirements to the NDIS assessment.

Exactly.

Independent assessment brings in an added layer of cost. It was thought up as a cost cutting mechanism. By my math, to save money they'd have to be cutting back at least more than that extra cost.

 

[HairyO]

Exactly.

Independent assessment brings in an added layer of cost. It was thought up as a cost cutting mechanism. By my math, to save money they'd have to be cutting back at least more than that extra cost.

Depends. Sometimes government institutions take forever and cost a bundle, sometimes they are efficient. If the contract to oversee the independent assessments went to a Liberal friendly massive consulting firm then you would assume it was not really about costs at all.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Did they say that everyone had to undergo independent assessments? I thought the idea was raised and then cancelled?

Plus, I suspect it would be a pretty quick assessment for many (permanently deaf, blind, paralysed, and so on) while there are many who may well not have life-long disabilities which should be reviewed.

The main issue would be whether the independent assessment follows different requirements to the NDIS assessment.

It's all over the shop from what I've been hearing. It's not everyone, but the people being dragged in is baffling.

Also one big problem is erosion. They are chipping away at supports when plans are being renewed. Hearing it's happening a lot with kids with autism. The therapy classes are expensive, and it's an easy target for cost savings

 

[HairyO]

It's all over the shop from what I've been hearing. It's not everyone, but the people being dragged in is baffling.

Also one big problem is erosion. They are chipping away at supports when plans are being renewed. Hearing it's happening a lot with kids with autism. The therapy classes are expensive, and it's an easy target for cost savings

There are also big increases in costs coming. At the moment for home care you can have 1 hour shifts per person but its changing to 2 hours. Even if only 1 hour is needed.

So rather than increasing the hourly wage for staff (which is needed) there will be many who do 1 hour work but get paid for 2.

And it also may see people getting less help than they need because their funding plans wont have been adjusted in time.

NDIS is going to get bigger and uglier and more expensive every single year until a future govt is forced to do something to reduce the costs.

 

[Number37]

NDIS is going to get bigger and uglier and more expensive every single year until a future govt is forced to do something to reduce the costs.

You reckon they never planned for any of that?

Ever heard of the NDIS Savings Fund?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

There are also big increases in costs coming. At the moment for home care you can have 1 hour shifts per person but its changing to 2 hours. Even if only 1 hour is needed.

So rather than increasing the hourly wage for staff (which is needed) there will be many who do 1 hour work but get paid for 2.

And it also may see people getting less help than they need because their funding plans wont have been adjusted in time.

NDIS is going to get bigger and uglier and more expensive every single year until a future govt is forced to do something to reduce the costs.

SIL isn't where the issues are. It's the areas where people supports have not been traditionally subsidized like autism, or wear and tear (people seem surprised that wheelchairs and other aids break down quite often)

 

[HairyO]

You reckon they never planned for any of that?

Ever heard of the NDIS Savings Fund?

So you think NDIS costs have been increasing in line with estimates? From $4b to $25b in 6 years. It wasnt meant to get to that rate for a couple of years, and wasnt meant to hit 1.3% of GDP for over a decade but is now predicted to be 1.7% of GDP within a decade.

Costs per person are increasing at 12% a year. I know someone who gets over $300k of support and it is going to increase significantly from 1 July.

Its not sustainable so someone is going to need to do something. Labor and the States opposed the LNP making changes because they werent paying for it. Lets see what Labor does now that they are paying for it.

SIL isn't where the issues are. It's the areas where people supports have not been traditionally subsidized like autism, or wear and tear (people seem surprised that wheelchairs and other aids break down quite often)

I thought Level 2 and 3 autism were on the list from the beginning. ADHD isnt, meaning the expensive medication isnt covered unless you have another disability.

And its not just wheelchairs, its pulleys/hoists, special beds, and transport.

 

[Gough]

So you think NDIS costs have been increasing in line with estimates? From $4b to $25b in 6 years. It wasnt meant to get to that rate for a couple of years, and wasnt meant to hit 1.3% of GDP for over a decade but is now predicted to be 1.7% of GDP within a decade.

Costs per person are increasing at 12% a year. I know someone who gets over $300k of support and it is going to increase significantly from 1 July.

Its not sustainable so someone is going to need to do something. Labor and the States opposed the LNP making changes because they werent paying for it. Lets see what Labor does now that they are paying for it.

So people with disabilities should do what? This isn't a how can we afford it issue.

 

[HairyO]

So people with disabilities should do what? This isn't a how can we afford it issue.

Im not saying the ones with disabilities should miss out. It would be interesting to know what the cost of the scheme would be if they slashed the admin overhead and reduced the requirements and just accepted more of the cases. I would think many are blatantly obvious and shouldnt have to go through the many levels of oversight.

Also the 3rd party operators are raking in the cash. The management of the scheme and the management of the people is where a huge amount of the money goes. Not to the ones who actually need support.

 

[Gough]

Im not saying the ones with disabilities should miss out. It would be interesting to know what the cost of the scheme would be if they slashed the admin overhead and reduced the requirements and just accepted more of the cases. I would think many are blatantly obvious and shouldnt have to go through the many levels of oversight.

Also the 3rd party operators are raking in the cash. The management of the scheme and the management of the people is where a huge amount of the money goes. Not to the ones who actually need support.

I reckon if we stopped hiring top tier law firms to try and prevent parents getting care packages for their kids we might save a quid or two.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So you think NDIS costs have been increasing in line with estimates? From $4b to $25b in 6 years. It wasnt meant to get to that rate for a couple of years, and wasnt meant to hit 1.3% of GDP for over a decade but is now predicted to be 1.7% of GDP within a decade.

Costs per person are increasing at 12% a year. I know someone who gets over $300k of support and it is going to increase significantly from 1 July.

Its not sustainable so someone is going to need to do something. Labor and the States opposed the LNP making changes because they werent paying for it. Lets see what Labor does now that they are paying for it.



I thought Level 2 and 3 autism were on the list from the beginning. ADHD isnt, meaning the expensive medication isnt covered unless you have another disability.

And its not just wheelchairs, its pulleys/hoists, special beds, and transport.

its not 100% exclusions

it can be things like "well you've had 3 years of speech therapy, thats enough we will cut it from your plan"

the core stuff you need to survive, thats not being questioned. Its the stuff that allows you to live a life that is

when the NDIS was created it was supposed to be about equity - that those with a disability have the same rights to live a life and make stupid mistakes like everyone else does. The shift seems to be that some thought it should only be about keeping your head above water.

 

[Taylor]

Sounds like it's heading for nationalisation then where significant money is spent up front replicating the third party services, then all people are pushed into the public providers and the quality of the service comes down, but the price stays stable.

Then those with private health insurance pay gaps to access the same professionals they do now.

I don't think we can take a step backwards on services.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Sounds like it's heading for nationalisation then where significant money is spent up front replicating the third party services, then all people are pushed into the public providers and the quality of the service comes down, but the price stays stable.

Then those with private health insurance pay gaps to access the same professionals they do now.

I don't think we can take a step backwards on services.

nationalization isnt possible

while there are a few large national providers (in SIL and supported employment), the majority of NDIS providers are small businesses. Off memory its around 10000 firms delivering services currently for NDIS participants

 

[Taylor]

nationalization isnt possible

while there are a few large national providers (in SIL and supported employment), the majority of NDIS providers are small businesses. Off memory its around 10000 firms delivering services currently for NDIS participants

Single payer systems always allow for restructuring via regulation, they just mandate that in order to access ndis benefits an approved provider has to be used and they only grant approval to their own NDIS department staff.

Offer the business staff employment and security with those juicy government benefits and seize the industry

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Single payer systems always allow for restructuring via regulation, they just mandate that in order to access ndis benefits an approved provider has to be used and they only grant approval to their own NDIS department staff.

Offer the business staff employment and security with those juicy government benefits and seize the industry

Thats what the NDIS already does.

Under the NDIS you can get payment in one of two ways:

First have a managed plan with the NDIA (managed on your behalf either by the NDIA or a third party plan manager), where they pay funds for the plan approved services direct to the provider

Second can choose any provider you want, registered or not with the NDIS, for the services your plan has approved. You make the initial payment, and then claim the funds back from the NDIA

 

[Taylor]

Thats what the NDIS already does.

Under the NDIS you can get payment in one of two ways:

First have a managed plan with the NDIA (managed on your behalf either by the NDIA or a third party plan manager), where they pay funds for the plan approved services direct to the provider

Second can choose any provider you want, registered or not with the NDIS, for the services your plan has approved. You make the initial payment, and then claim the funds back from the NDIA

I know but they only need to tweak that slightly and they can seize control and dictate prices

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I know but they only need to tweak that slightly and they can seize control and dictate prices

again, that already happens. The NDIA agrees to pay only certain rates for services. This has actually been one of the complaints from providers (that the approved rate price list is too low)

 

[Taylor]

again, that already happens. The NDIA agrees to pay only certain rates for services. This has actually been one of the complaints from providers (that the approved rate price list is too low)

I was offering a means by which the administration costs could be moved to a single government bill with staff directly working for them.

I don't actually think the quality of delivered services would improve, as I said earlier, but if the issue is that it will be expensive then that's a way to hide the cost

 

[Chief]

Second can choose any provider you want, registered or not with the NDIS, for the services your plan has approved. You make the initial payment, and then claim the funds back from the NDIA

This sounds like the American style health system. Kill it with fire.

 

[Taylor]

This sounds like the American style health system. Kill it with fire.

I don't see why it can't be rolled into Medicare along with basic dental.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I was offering a means by which the administration costs could be moved to a single government bill with staff directly working for them.

I don't actually think the quality of delivered services would improve, as I said earlier, but if the issue is that it will be expensive then that's a way to hide the cost

thats not possible in this sector. Most of the work for some providers (ie a physio) is non-NDIS. Also for the primarily NDIS facilities, there is a big difference in administration between a SIL provider, a SDA provider, and a supported employment provider (for example)