The next righteous LNP mission: Let's gut the NDIS

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Pie eyed

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Drumroll....................................
And right on key Scomo announces 1.7 billion to prop up private childcare centres.

Who will profit from these thousands of millions of tax payer dollars?

Start with Dutton and work your way down.
 

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Heisenberg_

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I genuinely don't know what to say to that

Of all the horrible things the Morrison government have done this is right near the top.
Timeline looks like unsurprisingly that incompetent useless piece of sh*t “brother Stuey” was in charge and responsible for that young mans death to try and save a few grand off the budget
 

Gough

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We could look at mining subsidies, franking credits and tax cuts in order to fund this. Why is funding only ever a problem for this government when the money goes down, not up?
 

Gough

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Bro, if you do everything for them they will never get up out of that wheel chair and get ahead in life. It's tough love.

Maybe a stint in some sort of Army Cadets scheme will get them moving.
They aren't pure of heart like Scott Morrison is, that's why they're disabled. It's their own fault.
 

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Caesar

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It’s a worthy program but in its current form it’s bloated and unsustainable

Need a hike to the Medicare levy and some serious cost cutting to get it back on track
 

Caesar

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What disability supports should not be funded on your world?
That is hard to say at present given the paucity of data and effective governance structures at present, as the PC noted in their last review

But there needs to be more scrutiny and control around what constitutes ‘reasonable and necessary supports’. Doctors are more than happy to write cheques with other people’s money, and they are not really interested in what constitutes reasonable and necessary spending.

The proposed independent assessments were not ideal but moving in the direction of more data and independent oversight is a good thing.

Of course it would be nice to have unlimited spending on disability support but unfortunately that is not practical - it is better to have a modest, effectively cost controlled scheme than none at all.

It is a shame that Gillard left us in this mess by kicking the funding can down the road
 
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Gough

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This woe is the NDIS rhetoric might have worked better if the government wasn't spending like drunken sailors elsewhere. Might have to add disabled people to Jen's list of things to have a word to hubby about.
 

Ned_Flanders

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That is hard to say at present given the paucity of data and effective governance structures at present, as the PC noted in their last review

But there needs to be more scrutiny and control around what constitutes ‘reasonable and necessary supports’. Doctors are more than happy to write cheques with other people’s money, and they are not really interested in what constitutes reasonable and necessary spending.

The proposed independent assessments were not ideal but moving in the direction of more data and independent oversight is a good thing.

Of course it would be nice to have unlimited spending on disability support but unfortunately that is not practical - it is better to have a modest, effectively cost controlled scheme than none at all.

It is a shame that Gillard left us in this mess by kicking the funding can down the road
a few things.

firstly it is very common to take three years to get your NDIS plan approved, and this isnt bogans wanting a mobility scooter to go to the pokies. This is kids who are high on the autism spectrum getting speech therapy (so they can actually communicate).

secondly, where do you think the money is being spent? 56% is going to "core - daily activities". Core means a core support for someone to be able to complete their daily life tasks. Daily activities is stuff like managing the household for a shared accommodation complex, provide basic personal hygiene and domestic support, and food services.

Your alternate arrangement is one of two options:

1) force these people to live with their parents until the parents die, and then they essentially become homeless

2) return to the good old days of Kew Cottages and Chelmsford (and remember after Vic closed Kew Cottages where did the residents go, many went to live on the streets because they were deemed as not needing 24/7 care, but they lacked the means to generate income and/or the ability to manage their own care)

the next biggest category is "core - community activities" (17%), and this was the stuff states used to do. Its essentially community groups and classes that help with socialisation and development (ie camps and basic education classes). Your alternative is to get all participants used to staying in their homes 24/7.

and the next group after that at 11% is "capacity building - community activities". Again, this is essentially stuff states used to provide, and is the classes and activities that assist people with disabilities learn the skills to manage their lives (or at least some aspects of it) independently. Cutting this is insanity, because this is the stuff that helps participants be less dependent upon the first two.

So with just three funding areas, we have 84% of the NDIS spend being for household management, and the basics for the participants to socialise and develop the skills needed to live with their disabilities more independently. This is not gravy boat stuff, but the basics.


This is expensive, but the answer isnt sell your soul for another 4K TV. Its to up the tax on this. We are not talking about a rolls royce package here, we are talking about a program that is already incredibly hard to get funding approval from, and which provides supports to essentially sustain a life.

if you want to slash costs, there is a price and you have to decide whos lives will pay. I suggest you speak to any parent who has spent 40 years raising someone with a severe intellectual or physical disability. They are nearly always broke, exhausted, and terrified of what happens to their dependant when they die. This is not something that should happen in Australia.

As I posted previously, you value a society by how they treat their most vulnerable. We can be better.
 
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Caesar

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So with just three funding areas, we have 84% of the NDIS spend being for household management, and the basics for the participants to socialise and develop the skills needed to live with their disabilities more independently. This is not gravy boat stuff, but the basics.
Perhaps. On the other hand, doctors are masters of playing the system and with the current levels of oversight and data we are not really sure how much the categories are being finessed.

This is expensive, but the answer isnt sell your soul for another 4K TV. Its to up the tax on this.
I agree this is the other side of the coin and that is why I have consistently advocated for a rise in the Medicare levy.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Perhaps. On the other hand, doctors are masters of playing the system and with the current levels of oversight and data we are not really sure how much the categories are being finessed.


I agree this is the other side of the coin and that is why I have consistently advocated for a rise in the Medicare levy.
underline this - doctors cannot accelerate getting your NDIS plan approved.

you seem to think this is like getting a docs cert and you get money. Its not.

1) you have to get the NDIS to agree to fund your plan. This requires numerous submissions, and normally takes years.

2) Once your plan is approved, your supports are paid one of two ways:

a) by the NDIA directly

b) by the participant, who then has to claim for each individual receipt (similar to medicare). This is only for pre-approved supports at a certain cost, and just like medicare, you wont be compensated for things you dont have approval for.



With many people too poor to pay for the supports up front, this means getting a plan with the NDIA making the direct payments.



Like all programs, some parasites have entered it, but a combination of NDIS Commission surveillance, media attention, and participants moving their moving away from them is keeping them at bay.
 

Caesar

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underline this - doctors cannot accelerate getting your NDIS plan approved.
I did not say that they do

Nonetheless much of the plan comes down to the treating doctor’s ‘professional judgement’, which covers a wide manner of sins… a clearer and more restrictive framework for doctors to work within with more independent oversight will help moderate costs

Naturally increased funding via taxation and better price controls also need to form part of the solution
 

Ned_Flanders

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I did not say that they do

Nonetheless much of the plan comes down to the treating doctor’s ‘professional judgement’, which covers a wide manner of sins… a clearer and more restrictive framework for doctors to work within with more independent oversight will help moderate costs

Naturally increased funding and better price controls also need to form part of the solution
bullshit - if this was the case plans would be being approved a lot quicker.

if the doctors endorsement is all that is needed, why do you think it takes years for a plan to be approved?

The doc is only good for saying you have a disability. all of the rest is outside their control.

Just because you have CP doesnt mean you get 24/7 home care if you want it. It comes down to many factors, outside the doctors diagnosis.
 

Chief

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Talking to someone in the taxi industry - transport is gobbling up a lot of money. Some people spending thousands a week on taxis.

I don't know if that is perfectly reasonable for them in their circumstances, but it is one of those numbers that alarms you when you first hear it.
 

Ned_Flanders

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getting pretty tired of all these straw men
its not a strawman

just because you have x disability, it doesnt mean you a guaranteed y support

cp is a good example, because cp effects many people in many different ways. some need only physiotherapy, supports around maintaining their physical health, and some specific home mods for their house. Others may need daily nursing care and home support. Others may need assisted living support.

the key is the doctors recommendation doesnt make or break anyones plan application. its the start of it, not the end.
 

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