The Unofficial List Management thread... :-)

[threesixpio]

Who says we didn’t try?

I would have been happy with a future second even. Oh wells

 

[TheFourPillars]

No - we should have at the end of 2016 when they had more currency

There is also the case that everyone knew what we were trying to do and were trying to low ball us. So we kept our players. This is besides the possibility that no one wants to leave

 

[threesixpio]

There is also the case that everyone knew what we were trying to do and were trying to low ball us. So we kept our players. This is besides the possibility that no one wants to leave

Totally. And posters here foretold of that possibility from memory - maybe Messenger? Can’t renember.

 

[threesixpio]

Pretty sweet that no one wants to leave btw

 

[TheFourPillars]

Pretty sweet that no one wants to leave btw

Except for Hartung who was not embraced by us

 

[threesixpio]

Except for Hartung who was not embraced by us

Pretty hard to embrace someone who keeps running away

 

[KermitJagger]

I agree for the most part, actually think Tom is better than Cotchin, Ruff better than Riewoldt but Jags can't even be spoken about in the same sentence as Dusty. Hopefully this time next year it's a different story, on Gunno though I certainly consider him a very good player but a clear peg below elite players.

I'd say our absolute elite when fit are -

Elite -
Mitchell
Rioli
Roughead

Very good -
Birch
O'mera
Gunston
Bruest
Burton
Smith
Burgoyne

Good -
McEvoy
Sicily (can make the jump to elite)
Pop
Hardwick (similar to Sicily)

Average -
Frawley
Stratton (injuries hurt him)
Henderson
Brand (can make the jump)
Shiels
Howe (can make the jump)
Ceglar

Below average -
Obrien
Schoey
Langford
Whitecross
Duryea
Heatherley

Not AFL standard -
Willsmore
Miles

To hard to judge -
Glass
Cousins
Hanrahan
Lovell
Orourke
Morrison
Nash
Pittonet
Lewis

Come on, McEvoy is better than good for his position. He was easily one of the top 3 or 4 rucks this year. He was elite in his role.

Gunston, another one who is elite for his role. He has outperformed Riewoldt since 2013 in pretty much everything but goals, and even then there's only a slight discrepancy which should be bigger because Riewoldt has essentially been Richmond's only target for that period of time.

I'm not going to bother comparing our top 3 to Richmond because I honestly believe Rance, Martin and Cotchin are probably the best top 3 players in the AFL out of any team; but when you remove those guys their next best player is Jack Riewoldt and then daylight til the next after that.

If you had to compare player to player, taking into account position played in the team we'd come out on top in terms of quality.

Take this as evidence of two things;
1) You overrate players from other teams; and,
2) Good structure and a short injury list help plenty.

Full Backs:
Ellis, Rance, Grimes Vs. Stratton, Frawley, Hardwick

Advantage: Richmond, not many clubs have a better FB line. Rance is far and above Frawley, Ellis is better than Hardwick at this point, Stratton and Grimes are probably on par. Grimes is a stingier defender, Stratton is a better player.

Half Backs:
Houli, Astbury, Vlastuin Vs. Birchall, Brand, Burton

Advantage: Probably even. Birch is a better player than Houli, Astbury is probably better (at this point) than Brand and Vlastuin V. Burton is a battle where there will only be winners. Both young jets and I wouldn't want to split them.

Center:
McIntosh, Cotchin, Townsend Vs. Smith, O'Meara, Shiels

Advantage: Richmond's center line doesn't exactly read like one, so it's hard to tell. Based on that I'd probably give the advantage to Hawthorn here. They don't really have true wingmen yet and rely on players like Dusty or their HBFs to get the ball in.

Half Forward:
Lambert, Edwards, Caddy Vs. O'Brien, Gunston, Breust

Advantage: Hawthorn. No need to say much else.

Full Forward:
Butler, Riewoldt, Rioli Vs. Puopolo, Roughead, Rioli

Advantage: Hawthorn. No need to say much else.

Followers:
Nankervis, Martin, Prestia Vs. McEvoy, Mitchell, Burgoyne

Advantage: Richmond by weight of Dusty. I went with Burgoyne as he's still probably our best clearance player on his day, but they've still got this category tucked away.

Interchange:
Graham, Broad, Grigg, Castagna Vs. Sicily, Henderson, Impey, Schoenmakers

Advantage: Hawks. Richmond have some real dead weight here. Broad and Castagna. Grigg is solid enough but not a great player, Graham is an absolute gem. I had to go with who will be fit to play Round 1 here instead of speculating on who might take the next step.

 

[tige19]

Come on, McEvoy is better than good for his position. He was easily one of the top 3 or 4 rucks this year. He was elite in his role.

Gunston, another one who is elite for his role. He has outperformed Riewoldt since 2013 in pretty much everything but goals, and even then there's only a slight discrepancy which should be bigger because Riewoldt has essentially been Richmond's only target for that period of time.

I'm not going to bother comparing our top 3 to Richmond because I honestly believe Rance, Martin and Cotchin are probably the best top 3 players in the AFL out of any team; but when you remove those guys their next best player is Jack Riewoldt and then daylight til the next after that.

If you had to compare player to player, taking into account position played in the team we'd come out on top in terms of quality.

Take this as evidence of two things;
1) You overrate players from other teams; and,
2) Good structure and a short injury list help plenty.

Full Backs:
Ellis, Rance, Grimes Vs. Stratton, Frawley, Hardwick

Advantage: Richmond, not many clubs have a better FB line. Rance is far and above Frawley, Ellis is better than Hardwick at this point, Stratton and Grimes are probably on par. Grimes is a stingier defender, Stratton is a better player.

Half Backs:
Houli, Astbury, Vlastuin Vs. Birchall, Brand, Burton

Advantage: Probably even. Birch is a better player than Houli, Astbury is probably better (at this point) than Brand and Vlastuin V. Burton is a battle where there will only be winners. Both young jets and I wouldn't want to split them.

Center:
McIntosh, Cotchin, Townsend Vs. Smith, O'Meara, Shiels

Advantage: Richmond's center line doesn't exactly read like one, so it's hard to tell. Based on that I'd probably give the advantage to Hawthorn here. They don't really have true wingmen yet and rely on players like Dusty or their HBFs to get the ball in.

Half Forward:
Lambert, Edwards, Caddy Vs. O'Brien, Gunston, Breust

Advantage: Hawthorn. No need to say much else.

Full Forward:
Butler, Riewoldt, Rioli Vs. Puopolo, Roughead, Rioli

Advantage: Hawthorn. No need to say much else.

Followers:
Nankervis, Martin, Prestia Vs. McEvoy, Mitchell, Burgoyne

Advantage: Richmond by weight of Dusty. I went with Burgoyne as he's still probably our best clearance player on his day, but they've still got this category tucked away.

Interchange:
Graham, Broad, Grigg, Castagna Vs. Sicily, Henderson, Impey, Schoenmakers

Advantage: Hawks. Richmond have some real dead weight here. Broad and Castagna. Grigg is solid enough but not a great player, Graham is an absolute gem. I had to go with who will be fit to play Round 1 here instead of speculating on who might take the next step.

A bit of effort into your post so I appreciate the response.

Townsend plays a deep forward/negating role, he also has no contract for next year does he?

One thing I'll pull you up about - you say I overrate the opposition yet you can't split Vlastuin and Burton? Vlastuin is a decent footballer but he ain't anywhere near the talent of Burton.

McEvoy needs to put in another class season to be considered elite for his position, his 2017 really came out of nowhere, before this year he was a plodder of a ruckman with a heart the size of pharlap. BB elevated his game beyond anyone's expectations, he needs to continue.

Looking at your post has me thinking, you are banking on all our older guys being as good as they where in 13-16.. our age demographic is a bit scary, we may be competitive next year but unless we gentrify the list we are in trouble.

Our midfield is light, very light.

 

[KermitJagger]

A bit of effort into your post so I appreciate the response.

Townsend plays a deep forward/negating role, he also has no contract for next year does he?

Yeah just going based on the Richmond GF list, which had McIntosh and Townsend on the wings. Odd, but who am I to judge; also he is out of contract next year but as a defensive forward I believe he'll get found out next year.

One thing I'll pull you up about - you say I overrate the opposition yet you can't split Vlastuin and Burton? Vlastuin is a decent footballer but he ain't anywhere near the talent of Burton.

Vlastuin at this point has more runs on the board than Burton, not as high of a ceiling. I think he plays that Hodge role fantastically. Different players, however. I just meant that I wouldn't want to split them now.

McEvoy needs to put in another class season to be considered elite for his position, his 2017 really came out of nowhere, before this year he was a plodder of a ruckman with a heart the size of pharlap. BB elevated his game beyond anyone's expectations, he needs to continue.

Big Boy is performing to the standard he did as a sole ruck. When he came here he was an endurance beast but he wasn't allowed to work over oppo rucks as much as we kept swapping him out. He's one of our best 2k runners behind Smith, use him that way - his 2018 will be of the same standard I have no doubt.

Looking at your post has me thinking, you are banking on all our older guys being as good as they where in 13-16.. our age demographic is a bit scary, we may be competitive next year but unless we gentrify the list we are in trouble.

I'm hedging my bets on most actually - I think that Stratton is probably on the downward spiral athletically, which hurts less now with Sicily's work in the backline. Roughead is a year older but maybe that year off, though tragic, could be good for his longevity. Rioli may show more age than we expect due to his run with injury but will still be a premier small forward. Birch plays that role that will see him performing well into his 30s. Still got a decent 3 or 4 years.

Gunston, Breust are young enough they should keep improving. Shiels should improve too with the inclusion of O'Meara into that midfield.

Our midfield is light, very light.

On this I agree, but all it takes is a big year from either Lovell or O'Rourke to make our midfield look formidable. Look at what Adelaide did purely from the organic improvement of the Crouch brothers. The hope is that either of Lovell or O'Rourke become good players, then we take a pick into the 2018 draft to get that last elite midfielder that we require.

 

[spotthedot]

not sure if this is in the right area but i hope we get a chance to recruit this lad (matt guelfi) from claremont...tough as nails and skilful
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-29/third-time-lucky-for-draft-pools-mr-fix-it

 

[KermitJagger]

not sure if this is in the right area but i hope we get a chance to recruit this lad (matt guelfi) from claremont...tough as nails and skilful
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-29/third-time-lucky-for-draft-pools-mr-fix-it

Suits the Hawks mould if he's as versatile as he's made out to be in this article.

 

[Millsie69]

This was on Knightmare's Draft Analysis article on ESPN:
Hawthorn
List needs
1. Key forwards
2. Key defenders
3. Star midfielders
Draft picks: 43, 68, 75, 81, 99
Who should they draft? Oscar Clavarino at pick 43 would fit as a key defender. Hayden McLean with selection 68 as a big-bodied key forward may be one of the key talls available later in the draft. With pick 75, WAFL star and former Fremantle rookie Haiden Schloithe would be a suitable get to give Hawthorn's midfield an immediate boost as arguably the best all-around midfielder outside the AFL system, with his capacity to play forward a bonus.

 

[A Cut Above]

I agree. Enright deserved every one of his AAs - best HBF since Bruce Doull, but Birch should have been on the other HBF in 3-4 of those AAs.

Nah, at the very least the last of Enright's AA's was awarded solely on reputation - much like Joel Selwood's this year.

The AA selection committee has had a major hard on for Handbaggers in recent years... they're connoisseurs of Stephen Dank's work I guess.

 

[The Kipster]

This is the bloke I'd love to snavel...

Third time lucky for draft pool's 'Mr Fix It'? - AFL.com.au

 

[tige19]

Just seen that Adelaide are going to delist Cam Ellis-Yolman, now if there is a delisted FA we should be picking up it is him.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Just seen that Adelaide are going to delist Cam Ellis-Yolman, now if there is a delisted FA we should be picking up it is him.

Haven't seen a lot of him (that I remember) but the inside footy write-ups seem pretty promising. Can you give a tiny summary on the kind of player he is?

 

[Turly]

Just seen that Adelaide are going to delist Cam Ellis-Yolman, now if there is a delisted FA we should be picking up it is him.

Wow! Thought they promised him a contract.

Would take in a heartbeat.

 

[Wandering Hawk]

Yeah, what's with that delisting? Any rumours?

How chuffed would we be with a pick up coup like that.

 

[HolyRioli]

Wow! Thought they promised him a contract.

Would take in a heartbeat.

Promised to rookie him if he's not picked up beforehand

 

[dermott]

The Adelaide board has been suggesting that Ellis-Yolman would be delisted for the last couple of years. I guess that is not surprising as he is 25 in January and has played 14 AFL games.
Obviously I have never seen him play but on the face of it he seems to be a good SANFL player lacking something that would take him to the next level.
Apart from adding midfield depth what does he offer Hawthorn?

 

[HolyRioli]

The Adelaide board has been suggesting that Ellis-Yolman would be delisted for the last couple of years. I guess that is not surprising as he is 25 in January and has played 14 AFL games.
Obviously I have never seen him play but on the face of it he seems to be a good SANFL player lacking something that would take him to the next level.
Apart from adding midfield depth what does he offer Hawthorn?

Has had 2 knee recos over the last couple of seasons, fair to say they've hampered his ability to get amongst it.

With the emergence of the Crouch brothers, they're reasonably stocked for inside mids.

Wouldn't look out of place on most AFL lists

 

[dermott]

I just had a look at the AFC board and note one poster said there are two reasons why Ellis-Yolman will last until their rookie pick;
1 etiquette
2 he is not good enough to be of interest to any other club.

 

[dermott]

Has had 2 knee recos over the last couple of seasons, fair to say they've hampered his ability to get amongst it.

With the emergence of the Crouch brothers, they're reasonably stocked for inside mids.

Wouldn't look out of place on most AFL lists

Thanks for that. However following two knee recos ( I assume ACLs) I hope we don't go near him. We can't seem to get O'Rourke or O'Meara on the park regularly yet but I hope that changes next year.

 

[tige19]

I just had a look at the AFC board and note one poster said there are two reasons why Ellis-Yolman will last until their rookie pick;
1 etiquette
2 he is not good enough to be of interest to any other club.

Would be in our best 22 as an inside mid without a doubt, each time he has played at the elite level he has looked at home. Crows overloaded with inside mids, CEY would compliment us beautifully, I hope we are looking at him. He is a beast physically, big tackler and can win his own footy. Has been cruelled by injuries but in 2015 when he was on the park he had some big games for the crows, I reckon we would be looking at him closely.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Would be in our best 22 as an inside mid without a doubt, each time he has played at the elite level he has looked at home. Crows overloaded with inside mids, CEY would compliment us beautifully, I hope we are looking at him.

Is he a goal-kicking mid also? Having another grunt-work midfielder who can also go forward a snag a goal would be great.