Religion Theists v Atheists XXLVII

[Pie eyed]

Yeah, I read about that. Can you believe this is the Tenties? You'd think this was the freakin Middle Ages.

Have you had a serious look at our Government lately? Our opposition?
Nothing will surprise me in the next decade.

By the way I thought the thread title was a little obscure because only a small minority of even the religious folk will even know what a "theist" is.

 

[bit_pattern]

LOL, I can't even remember what the thread was about now

Maybe should have been more descriptive in the title

 

[Pie eyed]

LOL, I can't even remember what the thread was about now

Maybe should have been more descriptive in the title

You're just a "controversy whore"....

 

[bit_pattern]

I'm what the Herald Sun would be if it was far left and could walk around and smoke bongs... A kind of Herald Sun with dreadlocks

 

[Pie eyed]

Are you old enough to remember "The Truth"?

 

[bit_pattern]

Haha, vaguely, in primaray school last time I saw a copy. If I'm not mistaken it is still around, but only sports, no?

EDIT:

No, not its not. Thanks a lot Rupert, another timeless piece of Australiana torn from our bosom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Truth_(newspaper)

 

[Copernicus]

What a shit law.

Although I wonder how much of Ireland would actually agree with it? Given how Catholic the place is, I wouldn't be surprised if they were okay with it.

 

[evo]

just don't understand the 'ism' part.....

The byline from one poster “We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.” gives some clue to the combative nature of debate on the subject. It is a contest: idea versus other ideas. We have to defend our ideas otherwise they/we don't exist. If our thoughts don't "make the world", they at least frame our reality.

It's actually a quote from Buddha. But it seems to me the 'ism' that bares his name has lost sight of what he meant.

I like the bolded bit, BTW. Well said.

Hey, maybe I'm Existentialist!

and what he meant, in my view is not inconsistent with existentialism (at least it early protagonists.)

 

[Sloth]

I just like a good fight. Most New Atheists these days ...

I've been an atheist since Sunday School.

 

[bit_pattern]

It's actually a quote from Buddha. But it seems to me the 'ism' that bares his name has lost sight of what he meant.

I like the bolded bit, BTW. Well said.


and what he meant, in my view is not inconsistent with existentialism (at least it early protagonists.)

What, that the world you make is the world of delusion, the world of samsara? I think interpreting the words any other way would be total revisionism, especially if you are trying to interpret it through the prism of western materialism.

 

[evo]

What, that the world you make is the world of delusion, the world of samsara?

he is saying a bit more than that in my view. He is pointing to the 'empty' nature of existence.

I think interpreting the words any other way would be total revisionism, especially if you are trying to interpret it through the prism of western materialism.

So interpreting it any other way than the specific way you interpret it is revisionism, is it?

 

[Suspense]

What is an 'Old Atheist'?

A New Atheist minus the antitheism and the claims to moral superiority. Another point of difference is that an 'Old Atheist' will, on occasion, have something interesting to say.

Damn.... I'd sure love to subscribe to something.

rly?

I've been an atheist since Sunday School.

lol, there's nothing new about New Atheism, aside from maybe it's evangelical popularity.

 

[bit_pattern]

No, not me, the 'ism' that you seem to deride.

 

[Monniehawk]

What, that the world you make is the world of delusion, the world of samsara? I think interpreting the words any other way would be total revisionism, especially if you are trying to interpret it through the prism of western materialism.

(I guess these replies amplify the dichotomy: a yearning to belong versus the desire to not be described by a formulaic simplification.)
I did not allude to Samara or delusion, but just meant that we construct a world from our own 'realities'. Argumentatively, this could be a delusion, but I think it is more a perception that we arrive at from experiences (and/or an innate predilection, maybe).
'Man making god in his own image' is just one manifestation of how we construct these 'realities'. Of course, MY god will comply with my concepts of a god - according to my influences and experiences. As a Christian, I found it difficult to reconcile other people's gods with my concept. Cataclysmically, they with mine! I felt bullied by diverse bodies of opinion. I also initially found it difficult to embrace gods who apparently violated my concept. No different to any other fundamentalist, I guess. Keep telling myself it's the journey, not the destination....

 

[bit_pattern]

(I guess these replies amplify the dichotomy: a yearning to belong versus the desire to not be described by a formulaic simplification.)
I did not allude to Samara or delusion, but just meant that we construct a world from our own 'realities'. Argumentatively, this could be a delusion, but I think it is more a perception that we arrive at from experiences (and/or an innate predilection, maybe).
'Man making god in his own image' is just one manifestation of how we construct these 'realities'. Of course, MY god will comply with my concepts of a god - according to my influences and experiences. As a Christian, I found it difficult to reconcile other people's gods with my concept. Cataclysmically, they with mine! I felt bullied by diverse bodies of opinion. I also initially found it difficult to embrace gods who apparently violated my concept. No different to any other fundamentalist, I guess. Keep telling myself it's the journey, not the destination....

Wasn't really referring to your comment - but fwiw I guess I think it would be a mistake to interpret eastern though through the prism of western traditions, such as existentialism. AFAIK Siddartha was quite clear in what he was talking about, that reality as we know it is a delusion which we create through the power of our minds, and that through meditation (ie. the practice of training your mind to not be distracted by thoughts) one can attain a state of 'enlightenment', where you can see the oneness of everything and transcend the delusion of samsara. Buddhism is the product of thousands of years of a particular strain of Eastern thought, it evolved from Brahmanism and Hinduism, all of which are very big on the practical application of meditation, I'm not sure these concepts are meant to be understood on an intellectual level tbh, which is the foundation of all schools of western thought.

That's just my interpretation though

 

[fairdinkum]

A New Atheist minus the antitheism and the claims to moral superiority. Another point of difference is that an 'Old Atheist' will, on occasion, have something interesting to say.

What a load of crap.

 

[Monniehawk]

....Buddhism is the product of thousands of years of a particular strain of Eastern thought, it evolved from Brahmanism and Hinduism, all of which are very big on the practical application of meditation, I'm not sure these concepts are meant to be understood on an intellectual level tbh, which is the foundation of all schools of western thought.
That's just my interpretation though

Similar argument to this was presented by my Christian mentors when I attempted to fathom biblical conundrums. The old "..you can't be expected to know the mind of God", or (Matt 18:2-4) being childlike in your trust of God. Essentially, to me it is a non-answer (and slightly dishonest by masking a lack of understanding?); but worse, it has the potential to promote ignorance as a virtue, which has been exploited by some more unscrupulous fundies in the past (...present and future!).
Having said that, I don't have the archetypal physicist's attitude that all things are known or at least knowable. I would just prefer an honest "Sorry, but I have NFI!!", then I have license to work through it for myself.
Additionally - and at the risk of diverting the topic to cognitive functions - rationalism may well be a characteristic of Western thinking, but, as with mysticism and the East, neither are exclusively the province of one or the other. We process cognitively using remarkably complex strategies but, granted, regional differences/emphases can develop as perceived 'characteristics'.

 

[Pie eyed]

(I guess these replies amplify the dichotomy: a yearning to belong versus the desire to not be described by a formulaic simplification.)
I did not allude to Samara or delusion, but just meant that we construct a world from our own 'realities'. Argumentatively, this could be a delusion, but I think it is more a perception that we arrive at from experiences (and/or an innate predilection, maybe).
'Man making god in his own image' is just one manifestation of how we construct these 'realities'. Of course, MY god will comply with my concepts of a god - according to my influences and experiences. As a Christian, I found it difficult to reconcile other people's gods with my concept. Cataclysmically, they with mine! I felt bullied by diverse bodies of opinion. I also initially found it difficult to embrace gods who apparently violated my concept. No different to any other fundamentalist, I guess. Keep telling myself it's the journey, not the destination....

Geebus Gawd....what a load.
Get a speech therapist.