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Opinion Time to change the finals structure

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Oct 6, 2011
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With all the talk around the disadvantage the pre-finals bye gives to the top 4, I would love to see the AFL change the finals structure. Presently, minor premier get basically nothing for finishing top and then have to duke it out with another high-quality opponent in the first game. Added to this is the 1 game in game in 3 weeks that has proven to be a big issue for continuity for teams.

I personally would like to see a structure of 1v8, 2v7, 3v6 & 4v5 to provide a greater advantage for the teams at the top. While this would be less finals games an ultimately less revenue, this could be covered by the introduction of a wild card round or something similar.
 
With all the talk around the disadvantage the pre-finals bye gives to the top 4, I would love to see the AFL change the finals structure. Presently, minor premier get basically nothing for finishing top and then have to duke it out with another high-quality opponent in the first game. Added to this is the 1 game in game in 3 weeks that has proven to be a big issue for continuity for teams.

I personally would like to see a structure of 1v8, 2v7, 3v6 & 4v5 to provide a greater advantage for the teams at the top. While this would be less finals games an ultimately less revenue, this could be covered by the introduction of a wild card round or something similar.
We had this system. Unless your saying all these games are elimination?
 
With all the talk around the disadvantage the pre-finals bye gives to the top 4, I would love to see the AFL change the finals structure. Presently, minor premier get basically nothing for finishing top and then have to duke it out with another high-quality opponent in the first game. Added to this is the 1 game in game in 3 weeks that has proven to be a big issue for continuity for teams.

I personally would like to see a structure of 1v8, 2v7, 3v6 & 4v5 to provide a greater advantage for the teams at the top. While this would be less finals games an ultimately less revenue, this could be covered by the introduction of a wild card round or something similar.
How would this work? It can’t be the old McIntyre system.
 

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With all the talk around the disadvantage the pre-finals bye gives to the top 4, I would love to see the AFL change the finals structure. Presently, minor premier get basically nothing for finishing top and then have to duke it out with another high-quality opponent in the first game. Added to this is the 1 game in game in 3 weeks that has proven to be a big issue for continuity for teams.

I personally would like to see a structure of 1v8, 2v7, 3v6 & 4v5 to provide a greater advantage for the teams at the top. While this would be less finals games an ultimately less revenue, this could be covered by the introduction of a wild card round or something similar.
There's not enough data to conclude that 1 game in 3 weeks is good or bad. The advantage of the 2nd week off now is any star players concussed means the team don't have to play a game without them and avoid a potential loss. Besides it evens up finals a bit. It got a bit boring with the top 4 teams having such an advantage.
 
There's not enough data to conclude that 1 game in 3 weeks is good or bad. The advantage of the 2nd week off now is any star players concussed means the team don't have to play a game without them and avoid a potential loss. Besides it evens up finals a bit. It got a bit boring with the top 4 teams having such an advantage.

They showed data on AFL 360 last night that showed there is a real disadvantage for the top 4 sides having a bye before the finals.
 
The only change I would like is eventually a wild card round during the pre finals bye as it will be better than moving to a top 10 if/when we get 20 teams.

7v10
8v9

No resting allowed leading into it. Highest ranked winners go into finals. Wildcard round not considered finals.

This would keep teams in for longer while preserving the good finals system we have. Melbourne proved last year that the extra time off had no bearing on the result. Doggies winning in 2016 from 7th was impressive but they did win 15 games for the year so were a contender in a very even year.
 
The only change I would like is eventually a wild card round during the pre finals bye as it will be better than moving to a top 10 if/when we get 20 teams.

7v10
8v9

No resting allowed leading into it. Highest ranked winners go into finals. Wildcard round not considered finals.

This would keep teams in for longer while preserving the good finals system we have. Melbourne proved last year that the extra time off had no bearing on the result. Doggies winning in 2016 from 7th was impressive but they did win 15 games for the year so were a contender in a very even year.
That’s not a “wild card” that’s a extended finals series.
 
They showed data on AFL 360 last night that showed there is a real disadvantage for the top 4 sides having a bye before the finals.

Didn't see it, but I can see that it would be less of an advantage getting a top 2/4 spot and securing the bye in week 2 when everyone has already had a break.

Indeed, 2 weeks off in 3 weeks could make the team go a bit cold, so I suppose there is some disadvantage.

Think it only applies to the winners in week 1 though, not all of the top 4.
 
Top 10, which is really two seperate final 5s
1,4,5,8,9
2,3,6,7,10

Week1 - the current bye week
4 games
1 and 2 have the bye
There is a QF and EF for both final5

Week2
4 games
Two semi finals in each final5

Week3
2 games
A PF for each final5

Week4
2 games
Each final5 has a final playoff

Week5
1 game
Grand Final, winner of each final5 plays off at the G in the GF
 
Another one could be.
3 divisions. Chosen from the previous years ladder.

1,4,7,10,13,16
2,5,8,11,14,17
3,6,9,12,15,18

All teams plays everyone else once. Then play their own 5 again in the double up matches. The ladders are split between those 3 groups. The top of each group take ladder spots 1,2,3. The seconds take spots 4,5,6. The best record of the 3rds takes 7th. The two other thirds play off for 8th in actual wild card game. Finals system plays out as it currently is. Obviously this would end the double ups of rival/derbies/showdowns and so on. Just a suggestion.


You would play your group as the first 5 rounds. Then the last 5 rounds. Which could artificially create matches like blues and pies from round 23.
 
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Top 10, which is really two seperate final 5s
1,4,5,8,9
2,3,6,7,10

Week1 - the current bye week
4 games
1 and 2 have the bye
There is a QF and EF for both final5

Week2
4 games
Two semi finals in each final5

Week3
2 games
A PF for each final5

Week4
2 games
Each final5 has a final playoff

Week5
1 game
Grand Final, winner of each final5 plays off at the G in the GF
Assuming 8 beats 9 in week 1. What are the matches from week 2 and week 3, assuming higher placed wins using group 1?
 

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Assuming 8 beats 9 in week 1. What are the matches from week 2 and week 3, assuming higher placed wins using group 1?
The old final 5 structure

Week 1

QF 3 v 6 - winner to second semi, lose to first semi
EF 7 v 10 - winner to first semi, loser gone

Week 2

1st semi, loser of QF v winner EF
Win and through to PF, lose and you are out

2nd semi, 2nd place v winner of QF
Win and through to final5 playoff, lose and PF

Week 3
Prelim final - winner 1st semi v loser of 2nd semi

Win PF and go to final5 playoff, lose and out

Week 4
Final5 playoff -Winner 2nd semi v winner PF
win and through to GF, lose and you are out

Week 5
Grand final - two final5 winners playoff

Changes

An extra 4 finals games
get rid of the pre finals bye, only top2 enjoy a bye, remaining teams all play.

1st and 2nd, get a bye in week1, a dbl chance and only need to win 3 games to be premiers

3rd to 6th, get a dbl chance, and need to win 4 games to be premiers

7th to 10th, need to win 5 games to be premiers
 
Actually I have an idea that is probably unpopular but for all the right reasons.

But what I propose is for the finals to be a double-elimination bracket up until the grand final (because having a potential second grand final isn't a good idea).

This way the top 4 truly has a second chance even after they lose after winning the first week of finals.
 
The old final 5 structure

Week 1

QF 3 v 6 - winner to second semi, lose to first semi
EF 7 v 10 - winner to first semi, loser gone

Week 2

1st semi, loser of QF v winner EF
Win and through to PF, lose and you are out

2nd semi, 2nd place v winner of QF
Win and through to final5 playoff, lose and PF

Week 3
Prelim final - winner 1st semi v loser of 2nd semi

Win PF and go to final5 playoff, lose and out

Week 4
Final5 playoff -Winner 2nd semi v winner PF
win and through to GF, lose and you are out

Week 5
Grand final - two final5 winners playoff

Changes

An extra 4 finals games
get rid of the pre finals bye, only top2 enjoy a bye, remaining teams all play.

1st and 2nd, get a bye in week1, a dbl chance and only need to win 3 games to be premiers

3rd to 6th, get a dbl chance, and need to win 4 games to be premiers

7th to 10th, need to win 5 games to be premiers
Using this years ladder

The bye week just gone (week1 in proposed new sysyem)

Geelong and Melbourne are rewarded for H&A season with the bye last weekend

It would be Sydney v Brisbane playing off in a QF for the right to play the Dees in the second semi in week2. And Richmond playing StK in EF for the right to stay alive and play a SF against loser of Syd V Bris in week2.
 
They showed data on AFL 360 last night that showed there is a real disadvantage for the top 4 sides having a bye before the finals.

Premiers have come from 7th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd under the current system and from 1st last year when there was a pre-Grand Final bye.

Grand Finalists have come from 7th, 1st, 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd. Last year WITHOUT the pre finals bye…5th, 1st.


So maybe the winners of the QF’s are not getting the advantage they were getting under the previous system, but even that is doubtful.

Premiers who did not win a QF occurred in 2003, 2005, 2006, and 2015. So in 16 seasons under the current finals system before the pre-finals bye, 4 of the 16 premiers did not win a QF. And 3 of these occurrences were in the first 7 seasons of the system.

Since the pre-finals bye was introduced there have really only been 4 normal finals series played, 2016-19. Last year didn’t have the pre-finals bye and 2020 had shortened games. So of the 4 series played under the 2022 conditions, there was one Premier who did not win a Qualifying Final. The precise ratio of 1:4 that occurred under this finals system prior to the pre-finals bye being introduced.

To conclude that top 4 teams are being placed at some disadvantage with conviction from that limited and unclear data requires you to have started from a biased position imo.

The Premier I think has also been clearly the best performed team in the finals series in about 90% of seasons forever. In roughly 10% of cases it is less clear who the best performed team in the finals series has been. There is absolutely nothing that has occurred since 2016 that looks like upsetting that ratio.

I personally don’t like the idea of giving any team, top 2, 4, 6 a greater advantage than they currently have, especially given the home and away fixturing is by no means a level playing field in any given season.

What has been shown quite clearly under the current system is teams can not only win the flag by winning the Qualifying Final, they can smash it, as Richmond did in 2017 and 2019. I think Mince and others are just a bit spooked this season because the gap between 1st and 8th looks a lot smaller than it normally is. If a team is good enough to win 4 consecutive games against the best the competition can throw at them, then they would deserve to be Premier. History has shown that is very very difficult to do, with I think only Bulldogs 2016 and Adelaide 1997 ever achieving that in 50 years since the early 70’s.
 
This was the McIntyre top 8 system. It’s a bit of a convoluted mess. Two lowest ranked losers are out, two highest ranked winners go to a PF and teams in between duke it out. Talk to West Coast Eagles supporters about how they were shafted in the nineties by not being able to play games in Perth.

Kwality
Its not the mcintyre system if its knockout games.
 

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I reckon keep the top 8 finals structure as is but get rid of the post season bye and bring in a bye before the gf, meaning any concussed players in a prelim can get up for a gf and winners of qualifying finals aren’t disadvantaged by playing one game in three weeks.

I think there’s an opportunity for the season games though making them fairer.
22 rounds.
17 rounds where every club plays each other once.
Then split the league into 3 groups of 6.
“playoffs”
Top 6 play each other once each all fighting for top 4.
Middle 6 play each other once each with the top two teams finishing 7th snd 8th making finals.
Bottom 6 the same but whoever finishes top of that group gets pick 1 and so on.

Stops any tanking and would make for a brilliant final 5 games of the season, with every game across the league having plenty on the line.
Also adds weight to the first 17 rounds as you only play any other team once.

Then once the “playoffs” are done you have your regular top 8 final set up.
 
Since the pre-finals bye was introduced there have really only been 4 normal finals series played, 2016-19. Last year didn’t have the pre-finals bye and 2020 had shortened games. So of the 4 series played under the 2022 conditions, there was one Premier who did not win a Qualifying Final. The precise ratio of 1:4 that occurred under this finals system prior to the pre-finals bye being introduced.

To conclude that top 4 teams are being placed at some disadvantage with conviction from that limited and unclear data requires you to have started from a biased position imo.

It’s 1:3 if your going to use 2016-2019. So 25%. Not sure why you wouldn’t use 2020? Maybe because it hurts your argument and all of a sudden it’s 2:3 and up to 40% of premiers not winning a qualifying final.

It’s not just the premier, it’s the grand finalists, which shouldn’t be taken from their ladder position but their seedings after week 1 of final.

Not sure about the bias position. As a Geelong fan I’ve seen it hurt, help and not effect the result of the cats in prelim week.
 
Finals structure is absolutely fine, it's just the bye. It's unnecessary. If you want additional freshness in the back half of the season have two mid season byes. One after 8 rounds, one after 16. Problem solved.
 
AFL should do away with the pre-finals by and make the game after the season ends a "seeding" round.

1st and 2nd get a week off as a reward.
3 v 6 and 4 v 5
7 v 10 and 8 v 9 in Elimination finals.

Then you go into the current finals system with a top 8 based on these results. But you get a "wildcard" round where 9th and 10th could sneak in.
Based on the current ladder this means.

Geelong/Melbourne week off.
Sydney v Brisbane, Collingwood v Fremantle, Richmond v St Kilda, Western Bulldogs v Carlton.

Loser of Richmond/St Kilda and Bulldogs/Carlton is eliminated.
Winner of Sydney/Brisbane and Collingwood/Fremantle gets top 4 spots.

Effectively all this really does is give the AFL an extra week of drama football, but it also rewards Geelong and Melbourne with a break.

That said, I think the current system is fine and players seem to not want a pre-finals break at all. And I agree. Top 8 and just roll in. Have a pre-GF bye to reward the best 2 teams and gives them an extra week for players to recover and be at their best in what is meant to be the showcase game of the season.
 

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Opinion Time to change the finals structure


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