List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2020

[legendstatus]

One thing for sure. If we have a bad season like miss the eight, get ready for a mass exodus of veterans & fringe players & $$$$$$ cap space

Under the gun

Reid
Mayne
Varcoe
Dunn
Greenwood
Broomhead
Beams
Thomas
Scharenberg
Madgen
Appleby
Wills
Sier
Cox



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

One thing for sure. If we have a bad season like miss the eight, get ready for a mass exodus of veterans & fringe players & $$$$$$ cap space

Under the gun

Reid
Mayne
Varcoe
Dunn
Greenwood
Broomhead
Beams
Thomas
Scharenberg
Madgen
Appleby
Wills
Sier
Cox



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I'm not sure why you think that's a certainty. A mass exodus in the order of 30% of the list won't be happening, particularly with players such as Thomas and Sier who are still under contract.

 

[Kappa]

One thing for sure. If we have a bad season like miss the eight, get ready for a mass exodus of veterans & fringe players & $$$$$$ cap space

Under the gun

Reid
Mayne
Varcoe
Dunn
Greenwood
Broomhead
Beams
Thomas
Scharenberg
Madgen
Appleby
Wills
Sier
Cox



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Most of those players would be on close to minimum wage in 2020, not going to free up too much space.

 

[Scodog10]

I highly doubt it's bad as the Media try and make it sound.

Don't think we Committed Salary Cap Suicide by Signing Grundy.

So you could have the Best Player Ever BUT IF he wanted more then a 3 Year Deal you would let him go?

Guess with this Deal then the Team and the List has gone Backwards quite a Bit then and we go back to being a Bottom 6 Side because of this then Scodog10 ?

I also don’t care what the media think. I’ll only agree or disagree with their comments depending on the accuracy of them from my perspective. In general though they don’t have a clue.

All parties would have been wrong to seek a 3 year deal. A 5 year extension was the sweet spot which allowed Grundy long term security and from our perspective wasn’t too long.

No the list hasn’t changed and we won’t return to a bottom 6 club on the back of one contract. I think I’m done with this discussion given the extremes you’re now going to. Enjoy

No he said his ‘preference was’ maximum three years. What you settle for in years, money and clauses normally somewhat different.

Dopple’s at 3 years not me. In today’s environment a strategy of not going beyond 3 year contracts, while very practical because it balances your list perfectly, is completely unproductive. You’d never retain or attract top end talent with a restriction of going past 3 year deals.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

I also don’t care what the media think. I’ll only agree or disagree with their comments depending on the accuracy of them from my perspective. In general though they don’t have a clue.

All parties would have been wrong to seek a 3 year deal. A 5 year extension was the sweet spot which allowed Grundy long term security and from our perspective wasn’t too long.

No the list hasn’t changed and we won’t return to a bottom 6 club on the back of one contract. I think I’m done with this discussion given the extremes you’re now going to. Enjoy



Dopple’s at 3 years not me. In today’s environment a strategy of not going beyond 3 year contracts, while very practical because it balances your list perfectly, is completely unproductive. You’d never retain or attract top end talent with a restriction of going past 3 year deals.

We'd probably have to see a few of these 6+ year deals going belly-up before the power shifts back to the clubs in terms of contract lengths.

 

[loki04]

Our old superstar full-back, Prestigiacomo, was drafted as a highly capable forward. We all know how that played out.

Who would have predicted at the end of 2010 that Leon Davis would be an AA defender in 2011?

Ben Reid came as a CHF, won AA as a CHB

Also Chris Tarrant went from AA forward to a better player as a defender after he came back from Freo.

A forward into defender in all cases, the opposite scenario is much rarer.

As for Will Kelly wait and see i guess, who can be certain one way or the other at this stage.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

I did a little pontificating about the OOC players and the state of play with the list.

Mihocek, Appleby and Madgen will all require senior promotion if they are are to be retained as they will have all been rookies for three years. On top of this, three players have to be taken in the National Draft, minimum.

Reid, Varcoe, Greenwood and Mayne could all feasibly be in their last year. I haven't counted Dunn because he will be rookie listed. Beams will maybe depart.

This means another delisting minimum. I suppose this is all a moot point because I have a feeling only Mihocek will be promoted.

If Guy maintains the strategy of retention, however, there could exist a possibility for a couple of players from the senior list being rookied to replace Mihocek and Appleby on the Category A list.

 

[jackcass]

Our old superstar full-back, Prestigiacomo, was drafted as a highly capable forward. We all know how that played out.

As was Peter McCormack. It is rarer though for players to move from defensive prodigy to top line forward.

 

[ClaytonM]

[QUOTE="loki04, who can be certain one way or the other at this stage.
[/QUOTE]

That was the whole point of this discussion. A definitive statement was made about a kid who has barely played a VFL game. Way too early for such statements.

 

[jackcass]

T.Shaw doesn’t need to be a Collingwood pusher in the media, he is paid to give his opinion...and just like many on boards like these he doesn’t have to agree with Collingwood.

It would hv been great to sign Brody for just 3 years IMO, but that is just my own personal preference that no contracts should be much longer than that.

Shaw just trots our the same other dribble - recent premiership teams had only average rucks, and 7 years is a long time - that other media have gone with.

Go back a bit further and it was Geelong getting Ottens, Pies getting Jolly that tipped us over the edge...bloody Didak won the goal kicking in our premiership year and Geelong had N.Ablett as CHF! Geelong lifted in 2011 when their KPF went off injured. Sydney won in 2012 with meh KPFs. Would T.Shaw be parroting the death of the KPF back in 2012??

WC with Cox, Port with Primus/Lade/Brogan and the Lions smashing us in the ruck in GFs again showed how a dominant ruck can take you to a flag.

Not securing Brody, our best player in his prime, would have been an interesting call...as why would guys like DeGoey and Moore then actually want to stick with us?

I also assume that part of the reason for extending the length is to reduce the per season cost, he could have demanded 1.3mil over the next couple of years but by us stretching it out to seven would mean we have more money in the cap in the next couple of years to secure guys like DeGoey and Moore.

That's the thing we'll likely never know for sure but I agree we likely got some significant savings by agreeing to the 7 year deal.

 

[jackcass]

A forward into defender in all cases, the opposite scenario is much rarer.

As for Will Kelly wait and see i guess, who can be certain one way or the other at this stage.

Mihocek the only one that comes to mind in recent times.

 

[35Daicos]

I did a little pontificating about the OOC players and the state of play with the list.

Mihocek, Appleby and Madgen will all require senior promotion if they are are to be retained as they will have all been rookies for three years. On top of this, three players have to be taken in the National Draft, minimum.

Reid, Varcoe, Greenwood and Mayne could all feasibly be in their last year. I haven't counted Dunn because he will be rookie listed. Beams will maybe depart.

This means another delisting minimum. I suppose this is all a moot point because I have a feeling only Mihocek will be promoted.

If Guy maintains the strategy of retention, however, there could exist a possibility for a couple of players from the senior list being rookied to replace Mihocek and Appleby on the Category A list.

Rookie upgrades can be counted towards those three picks; that has been the case for a while. What is not clear to me from looking at the rules is whether or not clubs are restricted to counting just one rookie upgrade (to satisfy that requirement) and still have to select (at least) two players in the ND. There are plenty of examples from recent years where clubs have only selected two players in the ND and upgraded rookies, but I can't see examples of less than two being chosen.

I too suspect that Mihocek will be the only current rookie who gets elevated at the end of the year, so Appleby and Madgen will need to have a rather good year to have much chance of surviving on the list.

 

[TradeDraft]

Even 1 year Contracts have Risks.

Player could get a Bad Injury and not play a Game. Like Greenwood week after he signed the 1 year extension he did his ACL.

Then Look at Daniel Wells and Clinton Young getting 3 year deals and missing most of the Thru Injuries.

Then Grundy could have little Injury problems and play Majority of Games

 

[35Daicos]

Even 1 year Contracts have Risks.

Player could get a Bad Injury and not play a Game. Like Greenwood week after he signed the 1 year extension he did his ACL.

Then Look at Daniel Wells and Clinton Young getting 3 year deals and missing most of the Thru Injuries.

Then Grundy could have little Injury problems and play Majority of Games

So you're saying contracts shouldn't be for any longer than a week then?!

 

[Apex36]

So you're saying contracts shouldn't be for any longer than a week then?!

Oh snap you just Daved Dave!

 

[35Daicos]

Oh snap you just Daved Dave!

That was the idea!!

 

[Horaceg]

That's the thing we'll likely never know for sure but I agree we likely got some significant savings by agreeing to the 7 year deal.

In 7 years time the Cap will have grown and the numbers will have a different look and feel about them.

The good thing is Grundy won't get significantly shorter, he will slow a little and not cover as much acreage each week which may bring him back in line with a more traditional ruck in his later years. The guy is another serious mid, can kick goals from there also and with some time will improve his forward craft. At the tail end could be a third forward option and relief in the middle. Love his attitude, love the way he goes about it, love that at this stage will be a one Club player, including first rights on his kids.

He is one player along with Pendles that I couldn't consider in another teams colours. Sidebottom, you're up there too, Bruzzie getting close.

 

[Kappa]

In 7 years time the Cap will have grown and the numbers will have a different look and feel about them.

The good thing is Grundy won't get significantly shorter, he will slow a little and not cover as much acreage each week which may bring him back in line with a more traditional ruck in his later years. The guy is another serious mid, can kick goals from there also and with some time will improve his forward craft. At the tail end could be a third forward option and relief in the middle. Love his attitude, love the way he goes about it, love that at this stage will be a one Club player, including first rights on his kids.

He is one player along with Pendles that I couldn't consider in another teams colours. Sidebottom, you're up there too, Bruzzie getting close.

How do we know there isn't a clause in Grundys contract that says if the cap increases then his contract does too?

 

[TradeDraft]

So you're saying contracts shouldn't be for any longer than a week then?!

Maybe have none at All

 

[Apex36]

How do we know there isn't a clause in Grundys contract that says if the cap increases then his contract does too?

You’d hope that the club would veto such a clause as a part of negotiations given the length and size of the contract he asked for, but they basically buckled on most of his demands so I’m not holding my breath.

 

[TradeDraft]

You’d hope that the club would veto such a clause as a part of negotiations given the length and size of the contract he asked for, but they basically buckled on most of his demands so I’m not holding my breath.

The Only Demand we know we Buckled on was the Length of the Contract to 7 Years

 

[loki04]

Mihocek the only one that comes to mind in recent times.

Yup and Naughton being the other notable one, both have a very hard attack at the contest which might be why it's been successful.

 

[Kappa]

So you're saying contracts shouldn't be for any longer than a week then?!

I like day by day contracts, to keep players on their toes.

 

[Linda Lovelace]

As was Peter McCormack. It is rarer though for players to move from defensive prodigy to top line forward.

People like to fall in love with the idea of underrated dogged defenders and Rolls Royce unaccountable, prima donna forwards as if they are mutually exclusive skill sets, but the sport's history is littered with failed forwards who became good/great defenders and not many going the other way. The reverse dynamic - failed defender to great forward - has possibly never happened, as the few defenders who became good forwards were generally good defenders as well.

It shows that it's not just about different skillsets, you just have to be outright a better footballer to be a good forward than defender on average

 

[Scodog10]

Yup and Naughton being the other notable one, both have a very hard attack at the contest which might be why it's been successful.

Bruce and Finlayson have both made the switch successfully, Reid probably would have if not for having muscles made of tissue paper and Petty has made a decent fist of it so far. IMO, it’s a developing trend.