List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 6

[tiger_tough]

The things I wanna know are:

- I know it's been harped on about (especially by me sorry), but why did we not draft Van Rooyen when we clearly needed Key Forwards?

- Why did Essendon get to trade absolute peanuts for 2-metre-Peter and Weideman, but we didn't seemingly try to get either? Wright I guess I can understand, he wasn't a real need at the time, but Weideman would have been handy. Maybe he has surprised a few, has been decent but everyone thought he was s**t. Just surprised we didn't get linked to him at all.

Looks like a rare mistake from our WA scout in hindsight. Can't get them all right.

Have you watched Weideman over his career? he'll bob up once every 8 weeks for a good game (r7 V Cats) but is shocking most other weeks. He is extremely soft and won't be a regular in the Essendon side from next season. Wright was a great bit of business by Dodo. He was on a rediculous contract at the suns and they needed to offload him. He would never have picked us with Jack and Tom up forward.

FYI Himmelberg stacks up very well to 2MP over their careers, even with all the time spent in the ruck/back half....

 

[Thrillhouse!]

The things I wanna know are:

- I know it's been harped on about (especially by me sorry), but why did we not draft Van Rooyen when we clearly needed Key Forwards?

- Why did Essendon get to trade absolute peanuts for 2-metre-Peter and Weideman, but we didn't seemingly try to get either? Wright I guess I can understand, he wasn't a real need at the time, but Weideman would have been handy. Maybe he has surprised a few, has been decent but everyone thought he was s**t. Just surprised we didn't get linked to him at all.

Might be like the schache situation. He seemed like a obvious fit at the time because our lack of a key forwards. Little did we know, we went cold because we had our claws in lynch. Not saying this is the same now but I back our recruiters to have a grip on what we need and when we need it.


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[Mr Magic]

Might be like the schache situation. He seemed like a obvious fit at the time because our lack of a key forwards. Little did we know, we went cold because we had our claws in lynch. Not saying this is the same now but I back our recruiters to have a grip on what we need and when we need it.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Actually I think Leppa was talking up Schache at the time as an option was he not?

 

[Lord of the Wings]

Looks like a rare mistake from our WA scout in hindsight. Can't get them all right.

Have you watched Weideman over his career? he'll bob up once every 8 weeks for a good game (r7 V Cats) but is shocking most other weeks. He is extremely soft and won't be a regular in the Essendon side from next season. Wright was a great bit of business by Dodo. He was on a rediculous contract at the suns and they needed to offload him. He would never have picked us with Jack and Tom up forward.

FYI Himmelberg stacks up very well to 2MP over their careers, even with all the time spent in the ruck/back half....

Wouldn't say that. Maybe our WA scout was outranked by Clarke who wanted Brown. A monumental f up either way.

 

[richoplzbreed]

The 2mp / Van Rooyen players were discussed here
Did you post that you wanted them ?

Can you link these posts to see this

I wanted Roughead , franklin & Fyfe in their drafts and wanted to trade our crap players so we could get Selwood and Dangerfield
before their drafts.

But i must have forgotten where i put these posts

NFI how you link posts. And the search function here is the most useless search function on the internet, you have to go back and search thread by thread. Here's a few about 2m Peter. Buggered if i'm searching as much for for Van Rooyen. There ya go I even wanted Isaac Smith for free from Hawks. Dude didn't start AFL til 23 so his bodies fresh probably got another few years in him. A great pickup by the Cats.

I was hoping Jye Amiss would be around for our Gibcus pick as I was sure Gold Coast wouldn't really waste pick 5 on Mac Andrew so I didn't think Gibcus would be around but wanted either Amiss or Van Rooyen with our 1st pick. Was shattered we picked up another HBF instead of Van Rooyen. I was the one who kept cracking it bagging the Brown pick over Van Rooyen but eased off on constantly posting in the thread on the 1% chance the kids dumb enough to read his thread here.

I wanted Lynch in his draft year and almost smashed the tv when Conca's name was called out. Had to look up emma quayle and whoever else did the ratings to look him up as never ever heard him mentioned as a top 30 pick. Most had him listed 30-50 pick range. but still remember shifter sheahan saying tigers will be licking their lips to land lynch as he'll be the perfect richo replacement and terry wallace said tigers would be fools to not take him. Watched him in an under 18's game and the kid had superstar written all over him.

I also was seething when Lark Medallist Oscar Allen was overloooked fo CCJ but wtf do I and the Lark medallist voters know that our recruiter doesn't? He identified something about CCJ that was imagined cos it's never materialised. I played KPD and occasionally KPF so I prefer watching the big boys than mids racking up disposals. Maric demanded the recruiters take Balta also as he said trust him he'd develop him, so they really shouldn't get the credit for that Maric should.

Yeah the club have nailed Balta, Bolton and plenty other's but we have practically flushed 10 years worth of 1st round picks down the sh1tter. without so much as pick 80 coming back. The cats kids who fail to get games always get traded for a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder back (usually an improvement) ours are playing suburban footy by 24 years old. And our KPF drafting and negligence the last few years has been so bad there should be a royal commission.

 

[Bojangles17]

Looks like a rare mistake from our WA scout in hindsight. Can't get them all right.

Have you watched Weideman over his career? he'll bob up once every 8 weeks for a good game (r7 V Cats) but is shocking most other weeks. He is extremely soft and won't be a regular in the Essendon side from next season. Wright was a great bit of business by Dodo. He was on a rediculous contract at the suns and they needed to offload him. He would never have picked us with Jack and Tom up forward.

FYI Himmelberg stacks up very well to 2MP over their careers, even with all the time spent in the ruck/back half....

Simple answer to wright and weiderman is that they were both heavily contracted as in > 600k and ess were prepared to take on the lot , read same for will Brodie . I’m not completely sold on van roo , browny hasnt given us much to go on , prob played 7-8 VFL games , only 1 this year injured for first 10w

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

NFI how you link posts. And the search function here is the most useless search function on the internet, you have to go back and search thread by thread. Here's a few about 2m Peter. Buggered if i'm searching as much for for Van Rooyen. There ya go I even wanted Isaac Smith for free from Hawks. Dude didn't start AFL til 23 so his bodies fresh probably got another few years in him. A great pickup by the Cats.

I was hoping Jye Amiss would be around for our Gibcus pick as I was sure Gold Coast wouldn't really waste pick 5 on Mac Andrew so I didn't think Gibcus would be around but wanted either Amiss or Van Rooyen with our 1st pick. Was shattered we picked up another HBF instead of Van Rooyen. I was the one who kept cracking it bagging the Brown pick over Van Rooyen but eased off on constantly posting in the thread on the 1% chance the kids dumb enough to read his thread here.

I wanted Lynch in his draft year and almost smashed the tv when Conca's name was called out. Had to look up emma quayle and whoever else did the ratings to look him up as never ever heard him mentioned as a top 30 pick. Most had him listed 30-50 pick range. but still remember shifter sheahan saying tigers will be licking their lips to land lynch as he'll be the perfect richo replacement and terry wallace said tigers would be fools to not take him. Watched him in an under 18's game and the kid had superstar written all over him.

Yeah the club have nailed Balta, Bolton and plenty other's but we have practically flushed 10 years worth of 1st round picks down the sh1tter. without so much as pick 80 coming back. The cats kids who fail to get games always get traded for a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder back (usually an improvement) ours are playing suburban footy by 24 years old. And our KPF drafting and negligence the last few years has been so bad there should be a royal commission.


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Your posts about 2mp we in combination with brodie

They are massive salary dumps and with our cap situation 2 years ago is pretty much impossible to accommodate
not really much there saying to take JVR just that post where you say Maybe ???

But i get your point
I was a JVR fan but clearly club didnt rate him as a A grade foward so lets see how Brown ends up like
if the comparisons to Stewart eventuate they could have a bigger faster stronger Tom Stewart

 

[Muddiemoose]

Simple answer to wright and weiderman is that they were both heavily contracted as in > 600k and ess were prepared to take on the lot , read same for will Brodie . I’m not completely sold on van roo , browny has t given us much to goon , prob played 7-8 VFL games , only 1 this year injured for first 10w

At the very least Brown played his part in our vfl boys win on the weekend

Was involved in the chain that set up the winning goal with a great handball to a running player in the corridor while brown was under a fair bit of pressure

Not bad game sense for a kid who hasn’t played much footy this year

 

[_RT_]

You do realise only 20 players in the whole league average 2+ goals per game? Every side would love a 2nd KPF who averages 1.8 gpg. I'd say the only key forward duo going at that rate in the league is Hawkins and Cameron.

We don't have the draft capital to trade for Ben King and if we did we should be taking it to rhe draft as we need quality youth. We've outlayed so many picks on Hopper and Taranto I can't see us trading early picks for at least 2-3 years.

If we managed to get Tom Lynch on a monster deal after just winning a flag, signing dusty up to a $9 million dollar deal and trading in Nankervis, Caddy and Prestia the year before I reckon we could manage HH plus a Marshall type as a free agent in a year or two. Our guys are the league leaders in managing the salary cap. If they chase HH won't be at the expense of other preferred targets, it will be because he is the one we want first while they have another eye on future moves.

In 2 seasons $1.4mill for dusty will be off the books and probably about $700k for Lynch will be freed up assuming he goes around again in 2026. Not to mention Jack, Cotchin, Riewoldt, Grimes, Prestia, Castagna, Tarrant etc etc. We'd have heaps free to chase multiple targets.

Yes I am aware that there are only around 20 players in the league that average 2+ goals a game. We effectively have 2 with Lynch 2.25 & Jack 1.91, so why shouldn't we be aiming to maintain that moving forward as Jack & Lynch come to the end of their careers? People talk about the desire to remain competitive, but when presented with an option that could see us remain competitive, not just in the short term, but also post Lynchs retirement by having a genuine number 1 KPF option slot straight into his spot, they throw up excuses about us not being able to achieve that, but then say in the same argument that we can afford to overpay a 2nd string option because we could possibly get him for free as a free agent.

As it stands we currently have 31 players aged 27 or younger. That's a full team of 22, plus 9 vying for selection. Add to that another minimum of 3 draftees who replace the likes of Castagna Cotchin & Riewoldt who retired/retire this year. That would mean we head into 2024 with up to 34 players 27 or younger (Short turns 28 in January), we're in a great position as far as I'm concerned to do something similar to what Geelong did in chasing Cameron and trading a package of picks to the Suns if King is our target. Think about it, we'd be getting a 24 year old with about 80-90 games under his belt to slot into the side* below:

B: Young Balta Gibcus
HB: D.Rioli Brown Baker
C: Ross Taranto Ralphsmith
HF: Cumberland KING Sonsie
F: M.Rioli Ryan Clarke
R: Soldo Hopper Bolton
INT from: Graham Miller Mansell Coulthard Nyoun Bradtke Dow Bauer Trezise Banks Green Smith Campbell

Italics - yet to debut. * - granted some may be also delisted this year, but should be replaced by young draftees anyway

If people are that keen to remain competitive, then lets shove our chips all in and ensure that we are in the market for arguably the best young KPP talent available, that can be the focal point of our forward line for 6-10 years.

For those that are all in on getting HH, who are you then targeting to be our genuine number 1 KPF when Lynch retires possibly at the end of 2025? You guys all talk about who should we get instead of HH and I've offered up my thoughts, but who is the player that we're going to make the focal point of out forward line from 2025? I mean I'm keen to see how Bradtke comes on, but he's coming from a long way back as a SSP selection. Bauer is a smaller KPF option that we've also got on our list. Outside that who is the mature aged number 1 KPF that you guys want to bring in to be the long term Lynch replacement for the next 6-10 years?

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

He still thinks we can get Harley Reid. Bloke is cuckoo

We're trading our best 22 for pick 1

 

[richoplzbreed]

Your posts about 2mp we in combination with brodie

They are massive salary dumps and with our cap situation 2 years ago is pretty much impossible to accommodate
not really much there saying to take JVR just that post where you say Maybe ???

But i get your point
I was a JVR fan but clearly club didnt rate him as a A grade foward so lets see how Brown ends up like
if the comparisons to Stewart eventuate they could have a bigger faster stronger Tom Stewart

I have dozens of posts majority just about 2m Peter but Fu@ked if im spending the time going through them much less putting them up, i'm amazed I bothered searching at all. I always wanted 2m Peter and had a couple of years posting about getting him. Used to watch him at Maribyrnong dominating cos he was teammates with my mates boys and he seems like good head on his shoulders, was always polite at parties. Media was saying Broad to GC was a deadset lock at the time so I wanted both brodie and 2m Peter in a trade. They both had huge salaries. At the time 2m Peter 1 year remaining and Brodie 2 years. Extended those salaries become bargains. Essendon got 2m Peter for a future 4th rounder and extended his contract to 3 years for just over $1mil so a complete Bargain.

 

[_RT_]

FMD - You cannot bank the Cap space

IIRC you can bank cap space for up to 2 years and then use that banked space to then pay up to 105% of the cap over the following year.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

IIRC you can bank cap space for up to 2 years and then use that banked space to then pay up to 105% of the cap over the following year.

Looks like people just dont want to win

NEED TO REMAIN COMPETITIVE Bottoming out never works

 

[Coach_Required]

IIRC you can bank cap space for up to 2 years and then use that banked space to then pay up to 105% of the cap over the following year.

Its a pretty unclear system, you have a cap floor which all clubs are required to pay 95% of the cap, that's been in place since 2013.
The salary cap was A$13,540,000 for the 2022 season with a salary floor of $12,863,000.

Yet, you can now salary dump players in trades to clear big contracts off the books. I couldn't find how much space you can bank for 2 years though before you have to pay it in full. (I do remember this method was being used by a few clubs a few years back, I think Carlton was one).

 

[chriso11]

How about this effort to win the game?

Outrageous Himmelberg hanger and winner rocks stadium

GWS forward Harry Himmelberg lights up Norwood Oval with this spectacular grab and finish deep into the final term

www.afl.com.au

This should be in front of the Tiger Army at the MCG

best part about it was how he absolutely obliterated campaigner Sicily’s head with his knee

Sign him up straight away !

 

[All Aust]

The posters saying no to HH are probs the ones who said no to Prestia ( pick ), said no to Lynch ( money ) and said no to Taranto and Hopper ( picks ) They will always say no because they are posters who are obsessed with picks and drafting.

Also they are posters who would prefer to load up the side with sixteen 22 and unders and develop for 7 years picking up 1st rounders along the way for that one year at glory and then start all over again.

Posters who's season starts in October as that's what excites them more, the actual season is all about draft picks and a loss is never frowned upon ( even though they pretend it does by acting all outraged ) as it's a step closer to a better pick. Trade period is all about seeing who Richmond off load in that quest for a pick, spending a pick to bring a player in oh the horror, how could Richmond do such a stupid thing because all you ever read is them bemoaning the fact that picks were given away right up until draft night.

Saying no to HH who would slot in next to Lynch and allow Ryan to continue to develop next to Nank where he will eventually take over is shortsighted IMO.

And finally, any poster who says they wouldn't be against trading out Dusty because it would bring in a high pick is not a true Richmond fan because no true Richmond fan would ever say this.

Adding that if you have desire to trade Dusty, you are a rented bed fellow of Pumpkinhead McClure. Oh that's such the ugly image to carry around 24 / 7.

 

[chriso11]

Harry hummingbird just isn't worth the salary IMO. Let Sydney overpay him and let's try draft a KPF or snag a kid starved of opportunity

We’ve got those in Bradtke, Colina and Bauer… none banging down the door

 

[tiger_tough]

Yes I am aware that there are only around 20 players in the league that average 2+ goals a game. We effectively have 2 with Lynch 2.25 & Jack 1.91, so why shouldn't we be aiming to maintain that moving forward as Jack & Lynch come to the end of their careers? People talk about the desire to remain competitive, but when presented with an option that could see us remain competitive, not just in the short term, but also post Lynchs retirement by having a genuine number 1 KPF option slot straight into his spot, they throw up excuses about us not being able to achieve that, but then say in the same argument that we can afford to overpay a 2nd string option because we could possibly get him for free as a free agent.

As it stands we currently have 31 players aged 27 or younger. That's a full team of 22, plus 9 vying for selection. Add to that another minimum of 3 draftees who replace the likes of Castagna Cotchin & Riewoldt who retired/retire this year. That would mean we head into 2024 with up to 34 players 27 or younger (Short turns 28 in January), we're in a great position as far as I'm concerned to do something similar to what Geelong did in chasing Cameron and trading a package of picks to the Suns if King is our target. Think about it, we'd be getting a 24 year old with about 80-90 games under his belt to slot into the side* below:

B: Young Balta Gibcus
HB: D.Rioli Brown Baker
C: Ross Taranto Ralphsmith
HF: Cumberland KING Sonsie
F: M.Rioli Ryan Clarke
R: Soldo Hopper Bolton
INT from: Graham Miller Mansell Coulthard Nyoun Bradtke Dow Bauer Trezise Banks Green Smith Campbell

Italics - yet to debut. * - granted some may be also delisted this year, but should be replaced by young draftees anyway

If people are that keen to remain competitive, then lets shove our chips all in and ensure that we are in the market for arguably the best young KPP talent available, that can be the focal point of our forward line for 6-10 years.

For those that are all in on getting HH, who are you then targeting to be our genuine number 1 KPF when Lynch retires possibly at the end of 2025? You guys all talk about who should we get instead of HH and I've offered up my thoughts, but who is the player that we're going to make the focal point of out forward line from 2025? I mean I'm keen to see how Bradtke comes on, but he's coming from a long way back as a SSP selection. Bauer is a smaller KPF option that we've also got on our list. Outside that who is the mature aged number 1 KPF that you guys want to bring in to be the long term Lynch replacement for the next 6-10 years?

Jacks cooked mate. Yes he's cashed in a few times this year but his opponent has been in the bests more times than he has. Will only get worse next year. 2024 Himmelberg would be a far bigger asset than a 2024 JR8. Even if they were to kick the same amount of goals, Himmelberg wouldn't get exposed the other way like jacks man has pretty regularly this year.

 

[chriso11]

I'm actually really hoping we ask for Harrison Jones from Essendon.

They've taken enough from us, about time they did us a favour.

He is out of favour, behind Wright/Weideman and now ruled out for the year with a back issue. Has struggled at times this year but is very young and his best has looked pretty good, as good as any young forward aside from your real big guns.

Couldn't hurt for a player swap or a second rounder.

I’d prefer this Harrison

Even at 80yrs old he’d be a better recruit than the Essendon spud

 

[Tiger Toffee]

I was/have been very supportive of the Prestia, Hopper and Tarantino trades, but I don't see any benefits for the HH recruitment.

So what's the reason for not wanting him, if HH in October says i nominate Richmond then you say yes as a fan cause the club has already said yes which would be why HH nominated us.

 

[_RT_]

Looks like people just dont want to win

NEED TO REMAIN COMPETITIVE Bottoming out never works

Please show me where I said I don't want to win or we should be bottoming out. In fact I'm pretty sure what I've posted today is about us being competitive longer than just the next couple of years, that many of the HH brigade seem to be thinking.

Its a pretty unclear system, you have a cap floor which all clubs are required to pay 95% of the cap, that's been in place since 2013.
The salary cap was A$13,540,000 for the 2022 season with a salary floor of $12,863,000.

Yet, you can now salary dump players in trades to clear big contracts off the books. I couldn't find how much space you can bank for 2 years though before you have to pay it in full. (I do remember this method was being used by a few clubs a few years back, I think Carlton was one).

From what I've read you can pay up to 5% under the cap for up to 2 seasons, but you must then pay it in the 3rd year. Nobody but those within our club would know exactly how our cap is positioned and I'm sure those same people will know if we're able to use that loophole over the next couple of years to create space to be able to land someone like King.

Jacks cooked mate. Yes he's cashed in a few times this year but his opponent has been in the bests more times than he has. Will only get worse next year. 2024 Himmelberg would be a far bigger asset than a 2024 JR8. Even if they were to kick the same amount of goals, Himmelberg wouldn't get exposed the other way like jacks man has pretty regularly this year.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't address the questions I posed at the end of that post.

Who is the genuine number 1 KPF that you're targeting to be the long term replacement for Lynch, because if HH comes he is Jacks replacement not Lynchs, so in 2 years time we're probably going to have the same problem to address.

 

[tiger_tough]

Please show me where I said I don't want to win or we should be bottoming out. In fact I'm pretty sure what I've posted today is about us being competitive longer than just the next couple of years, that many of the HH brigade seem to be thinking.

From what I've read you can pay up to 5% under the cap for up to 2 seasons, but you must then pay it in the 3rd year. Nobody but those within our club would know exactly how our cap is positioned and I'm sure those same people will know if we're able to use that loophole over the next couple of years to create space to be able to land someone like King.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't address the questions I posed at the end of that post.

Who is the genuine number 1 KPF that you're targeting to be the long term replacement for Lynch, because if HH comes he is Jacks replacement not Lynchs, so in 2 years time we're probably going to have the same problem to address.

By all reports we were in Lynch and Tarantos ears years out. I'm sure we have a plan.

 

[Frustrated Tiger]

Let's see if I do this right Magic..... we trade Jack to the Tassie Devils, he plays with them for 1 year and then we get him back when we're in our window again.... is this right???

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

By all reports we were in Lynch and Tarantos ears years out. I'm sure we have a plan.

Both kings in 24.
Both rFa.
Imagine Karen Whately.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Out of curiosity what about HH dont you support ?
If his $$$ was $500k - would you support it ?
Is it his talent that you dont rate ? Why

I don't believe HH is a worthwhile investment.