List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 8

[_RT_]

 

[Muddiemoose]

If any player asks to leave then, then by all means move them on as there is no point keeping anyone not wanting to be here. At the same time though we can't go losing a heap more than what we're likely to lose already otherwise we run the risk of becoming a genuine cellar dweller instead of being there because of the injuries.

Agree, I think it’s about determining how much they want to leave as well

Like Dan for arguments sake he asks if a trade can be done, the club should have an honest conversation about what the move means for him if he truly has his heart set on it 100% you do it but if it’s not 100% and he’s also more than happy to stay I wouldn’t be going out of our way to make a trade happen

Especially given his contract, if he was un contracted like Baker it’s another story

 

[Muddiemoose]

It’s time to put Balta back now.

He was the number two intercept defender in the game, we are struggling greatly to contain and he would help Miller and Young no end. Always build from the back.

Vlastuin Miller Broad
Rioli Balta Brown

That’s my defence.

I will then like Bauer and Ryan to come into that forward line.

The thing about Balta back is a little bit of fools gold imo

When he intercepts it’s because he plays as a spare in the role Vlossy is back playing this year and in all Australian form (5th in the comp for intercept marks, 4th in the comp for general intercepts) but Balta back means Balta plays spare again and vlossy back to being forced to play tall that he is capable of doing but it’s not his best position

The reason Vlossy hasn’t been playing as well in recent seasons is simply because Balta wasn’t playing as a key back like a lot seem to think he was… he was playing as a spare interceptor like Jake Leever and not actually helping us defend goals from big forwards

 

[eaglevision]

Agree, I think it’s about determining how much they want to leave as well

Like Dan for arguments sake he asks if a trade can be done, the club should have an honest conversation about what the move means for him if he truly has his heart set on it 100% you do it but if it’s not 100% and he’s also more than happy to stay I wouldn’t be going out of our way to make a trade happen

Especially given his contract, if he was un contracted like Baker it’s another story

Total hypothetical but would Tiger fans think pick 3 for Rioli and Baker (to different clubs) is reasonable if they did both want a fresh start and the Tigers wanted to get another pick at the very top of the draft?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

I think Taranto is the best option to be the next Captain. He’s committed to the club (which helps)…

committed to the club . $7 mil reasons to be committed to the club . He went to the highest bidder.
IMO It’s a cultural nightmare to have a player you’ve traded in as captain .
Sugar and Nank are great example .

 

[panatha1908]

Total hypothetical but would Tiger fans think pick 3 for Rioli and Baker (to different clubs) is reasonable if they did both want a fresh start and the Tigers wanted to get another pick at the very top of the draft?

We need multiple draft picks to bring talent in. I'd say we need two players per pick, either 2 draft picks (hoping 1 works out) or a pick and a player that wants to return to Vic. I think that's minimum.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

committed to the club . $7 mil reasons to be committed to the club . He went to the highest bidder.
IMO It’s a cultural nightmare to have a player you’ve traded in as captain .
Sugar and Nank are great example .

Taranto is on a 7-year deal and is not being paid a million dollars a year.

 

[eaglevision]

We need multiple draft picks to bring talent in. I'd say we need two players per pick, either 2 draft picks (hoping 1 works out) or a pick and a player that wants to return to Vic. I think that's minimum.

Could always split pick 3 in that case, deal I was thinking of also included Bailey Williams which seems a position of need for the Tigers but didn’t want everyone to get too focussed on that instead of the pick value.

 

[Lacustrus]

committed to the club . $7 mil reasons to be committed to the club . He went to the highest bidder.
IMO It’s a cultural nightmare to have a player you’ve traded in as captain .
Sugar and Nank are great example .

So you’ve never changed jobs? Had blind loyalty to your first employer? Then more fool you.

As Cotchin said recently, doubted Bakers capacity to be captain because he isn’t that bright, nor is Short in any decent form .

Taranto is the best fit by a long stretch.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Total hypothetical but would Tiger fans think pick 3 for Rioli and Baker (to different clubs) is reasonable if they did both want a fresh start and the Tigers wanted to get another pick at the very top of the draft?

For those two particular guys I can’t see it even being entertained

In the eyes of most fans each player alone is worth at least one first rounder and due to Riolis contracted status that is long term it will need to be a godfather offer for Rioli

Tiger fans won’t like it but Baker probably gets done for a first rounder and maybe change with a token pick going back

 

[SA_Tiger11]

At this rate I’d take pick 20 for Short from GC. We Would obviously ask for more but I’d be content with that.

 

[eaglevision]

For those two particular guys I can’t see it even being entertained

In the eyes of most fans each player alone is worth at least one first rounder and due to Riolis contracted status that is long term it will need to be a godfather offer for Rioli

Tiger fans won’t like it but Baker probably gets done for a first rounder and maybe change with a token pick going back

Fair call, I guess it’s where in the 1R that value lands. Honestly I can’t see Rioli leaving I think it’s just a huge media beat up. Bakes seems like he’s heading off but with all due respect (I admire him hugely) I still hope it’s to Freo. You are an absolute lock for Carlton’s 1R pick.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Total hypothetical but would Tiger fans think pick 3 for Rioli and Baker (to different clubs) is reasonable if they did both want a fresh start and the Tigers wanted to get another pick at the very top of the draft?

No.

DRioli would be amongst Vlastuin and Bolton as the first player picked every week and is at the pinnacle of his career.

He is also adored within the club, and as a triple premiership player has displayed that he can repeatedly stand up on the big stage.

I can assure you that the club not even entertain Pick 3 for him alone.

If it were the other way around, and WE were on the incline and getting ready to challenge for a flag in the next 2-4 years, we would happily hand over Pick 3 and something for a player of Rioli's ilk.

 

[eaglevision]

No.

DRioli would be amongst Vlastuin and Bolton as the first player picked every week and is at the pinnacle of his career.

He is also adored within the club, and as a triple premiership player has displayed that he can repeatedly stand up on the big stage.

I can assure you that the club not even entertain Pick 3 for him alone.

If it were the other way around, and WE were on the incline and getting ready to challenge for a flag in the next 2-4 years, we would happily hand over Pick 3 and something for a player of Rioli's ilk.

Rioli worth more than pick 3? Gee that’s a hot take. I’m not going to pretend to know how he’s rated internally but I’d be surprised if that was offered. Mind you he is under contract, you can name your price.

 

[voorhees]

unless Daniel puts his hand up...he is a keeper
on field and off field he is a richmond man
would happily and proudly have him as our captain
Baker and Graham are the two packing the bags

 

[LTT]

I would like to keep Daniel as much as the next man (although that is as always on the proviso GC doesn't offer us a godfather deal).

However, I'm not sure about the presumption that if an aboriginal player leaves the club the others will inevitably aimlessly wander off into the wilderness is entire fair. I'm sure that Maurice and Shai would like Daniel to stay, but neither would they begrudge him a deal that will set him up for life.

Considering what the club has given them both, I'd be astounded if Daniel leaving or staying would be some kind of deal breaker for them.

I am probably over reacting but your suggestion that my comment was based on the assumption that “the others willl inevitably aimlessly wander off” really annoyed me. I watched MRJ on Gilbert MaAdams show the other night. He, and Daniel before him, left home at such a young age. Shai left home at a later age but was still just a shy young man when he came to Richmond. A friendship formed in that time, I would imagine must be so strong. The fact that they are all aboriginal probably makes that friendship stronger. Sometimes I think we do not realise how much these kids give up to follow their football dream. Anyone regardless of race would find the disruption of such a close friendship unsettling. That was the point I was making. Apologies in advance if I am overreacting.

 

[_RT_]

committed to the club . $7 mil reasons to be committed to the club . He went to the highest bidder.
IMO It’s a cultural nightmare to have a player you’ve traded in as captain .
Sugar and Nank are great example .

Where have you pulled $7m from regarding Taranto? Reports state we offered a 7 year deal with $5m

 

[Muddiemoose]

Fair call, I guess it’s where in the 1R that value lands. Honestly I can’t see Rioli leaving I think it’s just a huge media beat up. Bakes seems like he’s heading off but with all due respect (I admire him hugely) I still hope it’s to Freo. You are an absolute lock for Carlton’s 1R pick.

Yeah I’m not sure if for right now Baker is the right type for you guys

I know it’s silly to knock back any decent player who wants to join your club but from my limited knowledge of the eagles list they still have a fair bit of experience so it’s not really something you guys lack it’s more just about pumping games into that elite young talent

 

[Danog]

At this rate I’d take pick 20 for Short from GC. We Would obviously ask for more but I’d be content with that.

We're not getting more than 20 for him. Take it and run.

 

[eaglevision]

Yeah I’m not sure if for right now Baker is the right type for you guys

I know it’s silly to knock back any decent player who wants to join your club but from my limited knowledge of the eagles list they still have a fair bit of experience so it’s not really something you guys lack it’s more just about pumping games into that elite young talent

Agreed. If we’re giving up draft picks it needs to be for youth IMO. Don’t get me wrong, I love Bakes and would love him at the club but only as a free agent given our list state and build. Versatile, a great bloke and clubman.

 

[LTT]

No.

DRioli would be amongst Vlastuin and Bolton as the first player picked every week and is at the pinnacle of his career.

He is also adored within the club, and as a triple premiership player has displayed that he can repeatedly stand up on the big stage.

I can assure you that the club not even entertain Pick 3 for him alone.

If it were the other way around, and WE were on the incline and getting ready to challenge for a flag in the next 2-4 years, we would happily hand over Pick 3 and something for a player of Rioli's ilk.

I’m starting the thread now. If Dan Rioli stays make him captain. Could not think of a better choice

 

[energyquant]

Total hypothetical but would Tiger fans think pick 3 for Rioli and Baker (to different clubs) is reasonable if they did both want a fresh start and the Tigers wanted to get another pick at the very top of the draft?

Hard to say. Losing two of our top 10 players for pick #3 might be the going rate. It probably gets us closer to contending again, so it's the right move if we can pull it off. The downside is the short term and the risk. If we stuff up the pick, it really hurts.

 

[THE_GUN]

There wasn't a like option on this board for years.

yet you have 120,000 likes
how did you manage that ?

your going at 3 likes per post

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Total hypothetical but would Tiger fans think pick 3 for Rioli and Baker (to different clubs) is reasonable if they did both want a fresh start and the Tigers wanted to get another pick at the very top of the draft?

Here is the history of pick 3 over the last 20 years in very rough order of merit so we can see where the median value is...



Martin
Jackson
Sheezel
Walter
Griffen
Rankine
Mills
Callaghan
McLuggage
Angus Brayshaw
S Hill
Day
Mastern
Billings
Ellis
Tyson
Hansen
Phillips
Plowman
P Dow

So your median expectation with pick 3 is a Stephen Hill-Angus Brayshaw level player. But 9 of the 20 the club taking the player would probably quite like to have a second go at picking a player.

So the question is along the lines of is Rioli and Baker together at or near their peak worth one of S Hill or Angus Brayshaw?

I would say the Tigers would want a little more than pick 3 for those 2 players. Maybe pick 3 and pick 15 or a slightly higher pick like 12 with pick 30 going back or something like that. That is a fair trade. But you don't let these guys go voluntarily just for fair value. Richmond would want something a bit above fair value, especially for the contracted Rioli.

 

[Tygrys]

I am probably over reacting but your suggestion that my comment was based on the assumption that “the others willl inevitably aimlessly wander off” really annoyed me. I watched MRJ on Gilbert MaAdams show the other night. He, and Daniel before him, left home at such a young age. Shai left home at a later age but was still just a shy young man when he came to Richmond. A friendship formed in that time, I would imagine must be so strong. The fact that they are all aboriginal probably makes that friendship stronger. Sometimes I think we do not realise how much these kids give up to follow their football dream. Anyone regardless of race would find the disruption of such a close friendship unsettling. That was the point I was making. Apologies in advance if I am overreacting.

Fair enough, but families and relationships are often broken up, but the blow can be softened by new bonds. For a number of years, St Kilda supporters were obsessed about getting Ben King to rejoin his brother so both could be part of the club they followed as kids (and yes I know he's not aboriginal but still). Many were convinced he would the first chance he got. However, Ben settled well at GC and resigned. Players grow, mature and become part of a place. And who's to know, if Daniel left we might draft some more aboriginal kids and guess what, Maurice suddenly becomes a mentor.

Anyhow unless they all move the GC, they'll be Daniel-less regardless, and I doubt any of them will give up their AFL careers. I could be wrong, but that being the case, I wouldn't worry too much about much knock on effect if Daniel left on the other aboriginal players.

 

[Jedwards]

D.Rioli is not going anywhere. He is not only a football player for the club, he does a lot more. Trading him will do more damage to the club than good. Is on a long term contract and is a needed leader within the club.

Players like Short and Graham are expandable. They can be replaced, and we actually already have their replacements on the list. K.Smith and K.Mccauliffe.

Short has currency and could suit a team like GC. Potentially get that 1st round pick there. Or even Carlton to compliment Saad

Graham unfortunately is injury prone, and potentially already hit his ceiling. Could still suit a Port. Wouldn’t expect much in return.

Baker is the big one. Personally I want him to stay. Personifies what a Richmond player is. Courageous, tenacious and skillful. Also Developed under greats of our club, Cotchin, Edwards, Lambert.. etc. and that means something. If Freemantle want him then they will need to pay a premium. Top 10-15 draft pick it will have to be.

To summarise,

Trading Short for pick 20, Graham for Pick 35+ and Baker for Pick 10-15 leaves us with a massive draft hand and gives us every chance to have two top 5 picks if the stars align.

There is quality KPP’s in this draft, we could pick a player like Trainor to compliment Gibcus and Brown in the back half or a forward to developing under Lynch and fill the hole Riewoldt has left.

With a quality mid like J.Smith at our 1st pick. Who will have protection from Taranto and Hopper, could impact early.

I’m an optimistic person and can see if we hit this draft right, we will climb that ladder quickly.