MMA-UFC UFC 182 - Jones vs DC

[Guy Threepwood]

He look great can't remember his first fight wow

Was against a second time guy, Justin (I think...) Saggo. He showed great TDD and some nice striking, but was gassed fairly early as he took the fight on short notice. Guess he's pretty damn good when he gets a full camp... that was a brutal finish and a dominant performance against a really solid guy at 155.

The people complaining about wall and stall is a bit rich. Cormier is known for it himself and was supposed to be that far in front of Jones in the wrestling department that Jones shouldn't have been able to do it to him anyway. To wear out and beat Cormier at his own game was something hardly anyone thought he'd be able to do, yet people still try to s**t on him.

Turns out I may have ever so slightly overestimated Jury's chances against Cerrone. Outside of some decent moments in round 2, he looked in over his head. Cowboy looked great again, but I can't see him getting to a title shot with Benson, dos Anjos, Khabib and Gilbert all in front of him for mine.

Tavares made Nate look old today. Not too much else to say than that really... was a pretty meh sort of fight.

Horiguchi didn't look as good as I had expected him to against gaudinot, but it was a pretty comprehensive win all the same. His speed and footwork looked excellent tonight, but he'll need to be much better than that to have a hope in hell against DJ. I'd like to see him step up against a guy like Moraga next to see just how good he really is.

Lombard and Burkman was a weird fight. Josh was the one who looked gassed from early in the first round, but I think he managed to crack Hector hard enough early that he became overly cautious. Not an ideal way to show the bosses that you're ready for a top 5 guy or a title eliminator, but a win against a solid opponent is still a win against a solid opponent.

Am I the only one that's seen Jordan do a backflip before? He does it after pretty much every finish and he's had 4 or so of them now in the UFC. For all those that were surprised though, just take a look at the guys legs... pretty sure he could move a small planet with them. Was kind of disappointed that fight ended where it did as Cannonier looked decent in there.

Was very impressed with Garbrandt, he kind of reminds me of Eddie Wineland with his solid wrestling base and big power for 135. His striking looked clean and his cardio was excellent considering he was no doubt experiencing the dreaded UFC jitters as well.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

Lombard looks like he should be a monster and he always says he should get a title shot blah, blah, blah but never seems to make a statement when he needs to, tonight was a shot against a dude who was put in there to be cannon fodder, the lack of a finish was a huge black mark.

I just watched that press conference. Firstly no way he makes 185, no chance in hell. I like what he said, its always struck me as odd people that say he is "too big" for the weight class, its "cheating", he is "ducking" the heavyweights. If Cain wants him so bad come to 205, same principle as Ronda and Cyborg. If Jon wants to fight at LHW for the rest of his career so be it. He makes weight and is the champion. I think he solidifies the undisputed greatest of all time call if he goes to HW and wins a title (Randy and BJ have titles in different weight classes when the sport was alot more immature) but it is his call, i will happily watch him at any weight, dude is a jet.

Agreed. 205 is his division. Same calls were made regarding GSP. Apparently he's a chicken for not wanting to fight Anderson at 185. I guess it comes down to how bad Jones wants to be know as the best P4P fighter ever. If he goes to heavyweight he doesn't need to cut and he'd add size to his frame. I honestly don't think Cain could stop him.

 

[bkozican]

Agreed. 205 is his division. Same calls were made regarding GSP. Apparently he's a chicken for not wanting to fight Anderson at 185. I guess it comes down to how bad Jones wants to be know as the best P4P fighter ever. If he goes to heavyweight he doesn't need to cut and he'd add size to his frame. I honestly don't think Cain could stop him.

Cain would DESTROY Jon Jones

 

[Higgins2Waite]

Lombard and Burkman was a weird fight. Josh was the one who looked gassed from early in the first round, but I think he managed to crack Hector hard enough early that he became overly cautious. Not an ideal way to show the bosses that you're ready for a top 5 guy or a title eliminator, but a win against a solid opponent is still a win against a solid opponent.

Reminded me of Miller's fight against Bisping after Ultimate fighter. Higher ranked fighter vs past it fighter from different organisation. Massive gulf in skill. It did look like Burkman was trying to lure him in for a counter. I think you are right though he was being pretty cautious. I'm not sure if it was because Burkman hurt him or if it was the usual play it safe routine fighters do when they think they are near a title shot. Stupid really because he needed to make a statement and he's not that young

 

[Higgins2Waite]

Cain would DESTROY Jon Jones

what makes you say that?

 

[bkozican]

what makes you say that?

Cains track record (Brock, Dos Santos x2, Bigfoot x 2 Werdum ) He would grind out 5 rounds over Jones. DC tried but not as good as Cain. How could Jones win. Submission would be the only way in my eyes.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

Cains track record (Brock, Dos Santos x2, Bigfoot x 2 Werdum ) He would grind out 5 rounds over Jones. DC tried but not as good as Cain. How could Jones win. Submission would be the only way in my eyes.

All slow fighters. Bones has a 7" reach and is taller. Jones is a hell of a lot quicker. To say Cain would destroy him is a bit much. If jones spend half a year adding size and preparing for the division I'm convinced he'd win. Cain is relentless and has ridiculous cardio which blows up other HWs...wouldn't happen against jones. I hate jones but I think he'd win

 

[MMAPride Scott]

Some thoughts on the card.

Jones is the best of all time. Light Heavyweight is no joke and he is head and shoulders above, a rematch with Gus is all he has left to do here then he goes up and probably wins at heavyweight. I dont like the guy but no one can deny he is simply amazing.

Cerrone looked really, really good. Jury was just in way over his head. Does Cerrone get Melendez next? He wont get a shot yet with Pettis and Dos Anjos fighting in March and Nurgumedov due next he has at least one more fight before a title shot. Also those kicks to Jurys ass were all hatred.

Tavares v Marquhardt was a bit of a nothing fight but Nates leg, damn that looked painful.

No one cares about the flyweights... Kyoji will get a shot in no time with how shallow the division is.

Hector won but against an absolute turkey he needed a finish, extremely uninspiring fight for a dude who is meant to be a "monster" at welterweight.

Felder and Garbrandt looked very good against pretty solid opponents.

Shawn Jordans backflip was amazing.

I think he now and I already had him down to passing Anderson as the greatest we have seen so far...... I know there is alot of Anderson fans out there but just put the opponents down on paper. yes he is a dick but you get that

 

[MMAPride Scott]

Jones 3-2 for me.

Last was a nothing rd.

i had it 3-2 Dc but 1 could of gone either way and same with 3, rounds 4 and 5 were Jones clearly seems like a decent outcome in the end. know it sounds funny but think we need to use more of the 10 point must system if not might as well have a 3 point system

 

[bkozican]

i had it 3-2 Dc but 1 could of gone either way and same with 3, rounds 4 and 5 were Jones clearly seems like a decent outcome in the end. know it sounds funny but think we need to use more of the 10 point must system if not might as well have a 3 point system

I reckon all judging should be done like the olympics. All 3 judges have to hit a button for the strike/takedown to count.

 

[alfy!]

I think he now and I already had him down to passing Anderson as the greatest we have seen so far...... I know there is alot of Anderson fans out there but just put the opponents down on paper. yes he is a dick but you get that

Wow, that's a big call. No one has matched Anderson's patch of dominance in my books.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

I think he now and I already had him down to passing Anderson as the greatest we have seen so far...... I know there is alot of Anderson fans out there but just put the opponents down on paper. yes he is a dick but you get that

Not a big call at all. I completely agree. Lutter, Irwin, leites, Maia, cote, Bonnar, Nate....it's the whose who of quality opponents even griffiin was a poor matchup in anderson's favour.

I know it's not his fault because you can only fight what's in front of you but Jesus middleweight was a poor talentless division. Half of them got title shots without going on any sort of run

 

[the_interloper]

Wow, that's a big call. No one has matched Anderson's patch of dominance in my books.

I think Fedor's run was more impressive than Anderson's, sure there were some cans in there but it was for longer and HWs can easily get knocked out. Jones definitely has the quality though, greatest resume I can think of and he finished quite a few of them too.

As for Jones to HW, I don't even think he knows what he wants to do. I'm not sure why people think he should move up, he says he makes 205 easily and that is his division. If he can beat Gus and Rumble there may be no one left, though MMA being the way it is other challengers always emerge.

FWIW I think he'd beat Cain as well, going off yesterday if Cormier couldn't get the TD easily then I don't think Cain would. Cain is a better striker than DC but Bones would use his reach and stay out of trouble.

 

[phantom13]

Staggering the people saying they think DC won more rounds than Jones, staggering. Maybe 3-2 Jones (instead of 4-1) but still a pretty clear cut win (FWIW I had it 4-1. Cormier got Rd2 and Rd5 goes to the champ cause that's what happens when nothing happens).

I think Jones in the GOAT but he makes it undeniable to even the biggest haters if he goes up the HW and wins a title, that was more my point. If he goes and beats Cain no one could deny he is the greatest ever. I also think he would need to take a fair stint off to add some bulk to his frame for HW, thinking he would fight at around 235-240 and if he does that and maintains most of his speed I think he crushes the division, only concern would be getting KOd, as good as he is he gets hit quite a lot and as powerful as LHWs are they, they have nothing on HWs (think Dos Santos, Hunt).

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

I think he now and I already had him down to passing Anderson as the greatest we have seen so far...... I know there is alot of Anderson fans out there but just put the opponents down on paper. yes he is a dick but you get that

IMO andersons opponents are discredited due to how good silva was/is... same with GSP. LHW has always been the "hardest division" but I think that's due to there being no absolute stand out at the top... now jones holds that position and the divisions had been "cleaned out". machida has gone down.. rashard has considered it.. now I guess because there's no new established fighters for him to fight the challengers are unskilled and out of there depth

 

[phantom13]

IMO andersons opponents are discredited due to how good silva was/is... same with GSP. LHW has always been the "hardest division" but I think that's due to there being no absolute stand out at the top... now jones holds that position and the divisions had been "cleaned out". machida has gone down.. rashard has considered it.. now I guess because there's no new established fighters for him to fight the challengers are unskilled and out of there depth

You're right, alot of Andersons guys get mocked because of the way Silva made them look but you cant deny the credentials of the guys Jones has beaten (Machida, Evans, Rua, Jackson and Belfort were all former champions, Cormier an undefeated Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight) when you compare the names and said records against Silvas opponents Jones has faced a murderers row.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

You're right, alot of Andersons guys get mocked because of the way Silva made them look but you cant deny the credentials of the guys Jones has beaten (Machida, Evans, Rua, Jackson and Belfort were all former champions, Cormier an undefeated Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight) when you compare the names and said records against Silvas opponents Jones has faced a murderers row.

Exactly. Jones has fought some very tough competition.

IMO andersons opponents are discredited due to how good silva was/is... same with GSP. LHW has always been the "hardest division" but I think that's due to there being no absolute stand out at the top... now jones holds that position and the divisions had been "cleaned out". machida has gone down.. rashard has considered it.. now I guess because there's no new established fighters for him to fight the challengers are unskilled and out of there depth

People that try and discredit GSP are idiots.

Look at the records of the fights Anderson fought. Some were coming off of a 1 or 2 fight winning streak. Besides Hardy and maybe Koscheck (2nd time) Gsp's opponents had to earn their shot. Anderson is a top fighter but I think if he was fighting Weidman calibre fighters during his whole career it'd be a different story. Bones can say he's beaten the top and people can't deny that

 

[Guy Threepwood]

IMO andersons opponents are discredited due to how good silva was/is

Agreed. People can look back in hindsight and say how good of a match up a guy like Griffin was for Silva, but that was not long after he had beaten Shogun, won the title from Rampage and was beating Rashad before being TKO'd in the third. Silva absolutely clowned him in that fight.

Reminded me of Miller's fight against Bisping after Ultimate fighter. Higher ranked fighter vs past it fighter from different organisation. Massive gulf in skill. It did look like Burkman was trying to lure him in for a counter. I think you are right though he was being pretty cautious. I'm not sure if it was because Burkman hurt him or if it was the usual play it safe routine fighters do when they think they are near a title shot. Stupid really because he needed to make a statement and he's not that young

I don't know that I'd say Burkman is past it, he'd been on a real nice a run prior to that fight. I just think it was a bad match up for him and he shot his wad early in the first round. His hands down style after that was as much out of exhaustion than it was about countering I think. As for his performance, I didn't think it was as bad as Mayhem's in the Bisping fight but possibly could have been had Hector let his hands go. Whether it was from being tagged early or playing it safe, like you said that was not impressive by Lombard and does nothing for his title chances I wouldn't think.

On the Cain/Jones superfight that may well happen now, I would favour Jones. I said years ago that I though Jones could move up and rule at heavyweight and the way he's developed since then hasn't made me change my mind. Cain would have a good chance, but I think he'd have similar issues in dealing with Jones' style as Cormier did. I don't think Jones would need to change much for the fight either in terms of adding size to his frame. He cuts down from well over 220, so in shape he'd only be spotting Cain 10-15 pounds.

 

[phantom13]

From what people have said Cormier beats up on Cain when they rassle in training and Jones made Cormier look average at best in the rasslin dept. Thinking of it stylistically Cain shot about 8,000 times on JDS and in the end was getting him down cause JDS was exhausted more than anything. Jones rasslin would be at least the equal if not better than Cain and Cains reckless stand up would be a dream for Jones fluid creativity. Its all speculative but provided Jones can get big enough to not be dwarfed by Cain (who fights at like 240 max anyway) i think Jones destroys him, worse than Cormier.

The closest comparison at LHW for Cain i can think of is Bader (not nearly as good but a stifling wrestler with cardio for days) and we all remember how that went.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

Agreed. People can look back in hindsight and say how good of a match up a guy like Griffin was for Silva, but that was not long after he had beaten Shogun, won the title from Rampage and was beating Rashad before being TKO'd in the third. Silva absolutely clowned him in that fight.



I don't know that I'd say Burkman is past it, he'd been on a real nice a run prior to that fight. I just think it was a bad match up for him and he shot his wad early in the first round. His hands down style after that was as much out of exhaustion than it was about countering I think. As for his performance, I didn't think it was as bad as Mayhem's in the Bisping fight but possibly could have been had Hector let his hands go. Whether it was from being tagged early or playing it safe, like you said that was not impressive by Lombard and does nothing for his title chances I wouldn't think.

On the Cain/Jones superfight that may well happen now, I would favour Jones. I said years ago that I though Jones could move up and rule at heavyweight and the way he's developed since then hasn't made me change my mind. Cain would have a good chance, but I think he'd have similar issues in dealing with Jones' style as Cormier did. I don't think Jones would need to change much for the fight either in terms of adding size to his frame. He cuts down from well over 220, so in shape he'd only be spotting Cain 10-15 pounds.

Silva did clown Griffin but griffin was fed to the wolves in that one. Grit and determination were key tools in Griffin's arsenal...that doesn't count for much against a fighter like Anderson, especially when your wrestling isn't top class and you're fighting on a different speed (bolt vs big country in a sprint). Shogun has been hit and miss in the UFC (cardio deplorable at times), and he executed a brilliant game plan against Rampage.

I disagree. Yes Burkman had been on a nice run but in the WSOF. I'm still shocked he beat a past it fitch. Any fighter that has lost to Pete Sell doesn't deserve to be back in the UFC. The whole lead up we were told how the experienced Burkman would trouble Lombard. I'm no genius but if Lombard struggles with cardio, I'm not sure why you would show up in worse shape.

I agree with your points regarding Jones. People seem to think he'll show up to the fight weighing 205. He'd probably make Cain look small too. Cain would give it his best but I think he'd come up short. Only other heavyweight I think that could trouble Jones would be a prime Lesnar (just because of his size and wrestling).

 

[Higgins2Waite]

From what people have said Cormier beats up on Cain when they rassle in training and Jones made Cormier look average at best in the rasslin dept. Thinking of it stylistically Cain shot about 8,000 times on JDS and in the end was getting him down cause JDS was exhausted more than anything. Jones rasslin would be at least the equal if not better than Cain and Cains reckless stand up would be a dream for Jones fluid creativity. Its all speculative but provided Jones can get big enough to not be dwarfed by Cain (who fights at like 240 max anyway) i think Jones destroys him, worse than Cormier.

The closest comparison at LHW for Cain i can think of is Bader (not nearly as good but a stifling wrestler with cardio for days) and we all remember how that went.

Same reason behind Jones taking down Cormier. He was spent in the championship rounds. I wouldn't attribute the takedown in the first as wrestling because it was more of a trip. Those bloody long limbs of his

 

[phantom13]

Same reason behind Jones taking down Cormier. He was spent in the championship rounds. I wouldn't attribute the takedown in the first as wrestling because it was more of a trip. Those bloody long limbs of his

His height and limbs made Cormiers takedowns impossible as well, he has too much leverage from his height against these guys. From memory Cains only like 6 or 6'1" so i don't see it being much different for him, although he shoots more than he grapples.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Silva did clown Griffin but griffin was fed to the wolves in that one. Grit and determination were key tools in Griffin's arsenal...that doesn't count for much against a fighter like Anderson, especially when your wrestling isn't top class and you're fighting on a different speed (bolt vs big country in a sprint). Shogun has been hit and miss in the UFC (cardio deplorable at times), and he executed a brilliant game plan against Rampage.

That's not something you can hold against Silva though, which was my point. Grit and determination were indeed key tools for Griffin, but to ignore the rest of his skill set is a bit rough. He was a very talented stand up fighter with a great BJJ game who was good enough to win a world championship. To have a win against a guy like that, particularly in both the fashion he did and up a weight class is nothing to be scoffed at.

I disagree. Yes Burkman had been on a nice run but in the WSOF. I'm still shocked he beat a past it fitch. Any fighter that has lost to Pete Sell doesn't deserve to be back in the UFC. The whole lead up we were told how the experienced Burkman would trouble Lombard. I'm no genius but if Lombard struggles with cardio, I'm not sure why you would show up in worse shape.

WSOF has some very good fighters, specifically at welterweight where Burkman was on his run. The Fitch fight was a huge statement, he cracked him like few others have been able to and then became the first guy to choke him out in forever and he looked great in most of his other fights there. Agree that there's not much excuse for losing to Drago, but that was more than 6 years ago now and doesn't hold much weight with the type of fighter he is now.

 

[phantom13]

.
WSOF has some very good fighters, specifically at welterweight where Burkman was on his run. The Fitch fight was a huge statement, he cracked him like few others have been able to and then became the first guy to choke him out in forever and he looked great in most of his other fights there. Agree that there's not much excuse for losing to Drago, but that was more than 6 years ago now and doesn't hold much weight with the type of fighter he is now.

Fitch is not the fighter he once was. He lost to Burkman then beat a couple of average at best fighters pretty unconvincingly (one by split decision no less) then got done by Palhares in under 90 seconds (Palhares is a genuine threat to anyone at WW if he could get his head out of his ass to be fair). the Lombard v Burkman fight was pretty awful, Burkman looked shot to pieces after about a minute (which was about 10 seconds after the commentators were going on about him training at altitude and having a good tank) and Lombard just did enough to make sure he won, when in reality he needed to put Burkman away.

A good chin is a nice asset but you need some more, WW is deeeeeeeeeeeeep and Burkman doesn't hold much weight there for me, you wouldnt cut him but he wont be on a main card again for a while, if ever.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

That's not something you can hold against Silva though, which was my point. Grit and determination were indeed key tools for Griffin, but to ignore the rest of his skill set is a bit rough. He was a very talented stand up fighter with a great BJJ game who was good enough to win a world championship. To have a win against a guy like that, particularly in both the fashion he did and up a weight class is nothing to be scoffed at.

Griffin was great, and I think he was a very good blue collar fighter. I think he was the last of an evolution in that division (Ortiz, Couture etc).

I think it was well crafted by Anderson and Dana. Anderson is ridiculously quick and has knockout power. He flirted with going to 205 so what better way to introduce him to the division than putting him against an big 205'er that was once a champ. Forrest was out match and he knew it straight away.