Umpires influencing games: Exhibit 1 Car v Fre

[eastfreo75]

Another clear example of umpire error in the position kick was taken from by Newnes. Clearly gives an extra 10m which otherwise may not have made the distance or cleared the line.

The boundary umpire has clearly marked where the ball went out of bounds which is nearly on the 50m arc. How the heck then is the point for the free kick moved forward without the boundary umpire stepping in?

Would Newnes have been able to kick the goal from 55m out?

View attachment 937807

Oh that’s making me even more bad.

 

[eastfreo75]

View attachment 937826

Seems the boundary umpire did get it right, the field umpire then gets it completely wrong, make no mistake this cost Fremantle the game, it’s just not good enough.

Can’t the field Umpire talk with the boundary umpIre?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

View attachment 937826

Seems the boundary umpire did get it right, the field umpire then gets it completely wrong, make no mistake this cost Fremantle the game, it’s just not good enough.

If you watch the footage again, that picture on the left is not the boundary umpire setting the mark, that's him looking back at the Umpire after 15 seconds of confusion as to whether it was downfield or not. In the live footage the boundary umpire is around where the security guard is in that picture when he calls out of bounds on the full, you don't see him point to where the mark is.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Oh that’s making me even more bad.

See above, image is misleading. Mark probably should have been set at about 43, was set at 40, not a huge issue. Definitely not the 48m that that misleading photo is trying to suggest.

 

[Veer Right]

View attachment 937826

Seems the boundary umpire did get it right, the field umpire then gets it completely wrong, make no mistake this cost Fremantle the game, it’s just not good enough.

That's the most damning evidence so far, if the media gets a hold of what you just posted and presses the agenda i can't see the AFL defending that.

 

[Veer Right]

If you watch the footage again, that picture on the left is not the boundary umpire setting the mark, that's him looking back at the Umpire after 15 seconds of confusion as to whether it was downfield or not. In the live footage the boundary umpire is around where the security guard is in that picture when he calls out of bounds on the full, you don't see him point to where the mark is.

and if you watch the footage again the ball was out before the 50m mark so the mark should of been even further away. Why are you defending your clubs cheating ways. Call a spade a spade and admit you stole an undeserved victory due to umpire negligence.

 

[Halftimehero]

If you watch the footage again, that picture on the left is not the boundary umpire setting the mark, that's him looking back at the Umpire after 15 seconds of confusion as to whether it was downfield or not. In the live footage the boundary umpire is around where the security guard is in that picture when he calls out of bounds on the full, you don't see him point to where the mark is.

That is complete nonsense

Here is the boundary umpire signalling on the full

This is him then moving UP to the set the mark


So at that point it’s irrelevant who’s kick it is, Carltons or Fremantle’s, the boundary umpire went up to set the mark where the ball left the field of play.

 

[Purple Suit]

If you watch the footage again, that picture on the left is not the boundary umpire setting the mark, that's him looking back at the Umpire after 15 seconds of confusion as to whether it was downfield or not. In the live footage the boundary umpire is around where the security guard is in that picture when he calls out of bounds on the full, you don't see him point to where the mark is.

I was at the game with a perfect view. It's exactly as stated in the photo and above, not your made up version.

 

[dockerfemme]

Can you point me to the law where it says that? I've been through the 2020 laws and can't find it. In fact I can't find any reference to "downfield" free kicks at all.

My understanding is that downfield free kicks are now encompassed in this clause:

18.1.2 Awarding Free Kicks
Unless otherwise stated in these Laws, a Free Kick can be awarded at any location on
the Arena and shall be taken where it is awarded or where the football is at the time,
whichever is the greater penalty against the offending Team. For the avoidance of doubt,
Free Kicks awarded outside the Playing Surface will be taken at the nearest location on
the Boundary Line or where the football is at the time, whichever is the greater penalty
against the offending Team.

According to this, the free kick should have been awarded "where the football is at the time", and not back to the player infringed against (Docherty).

The grey area to me is "where the football is at the time". I'm assuming it means where the football is when the umpire awards the free kick and not when the infringement occurs. But who knows?

I think you are right, this is the relevant law. No longer downfield free kicks. Technically, where the ball was at the time is about 2 metres off Docherty’s boot.

Assuming it was a free kick, just where the Mark should be is clear as mud.

 

[manureid]

Have not read whole thread, but after seeing the vision today of mark setting, taking out of it the wrong bloke got the kick, I am unsure how anyone can defend this. If I was a Blues supporter I would be laughing my **** off that we got an absolute wristy from the umps here and got the win because of it. This however is another in a long list of umpire howlers from this season, where it seems they are worse than ever before. The game is becoming unwatchable in large parts due to the absolute incompetence of the umpiring, though I agree they are not helped by the rule tinkering all the time.

 

[eastfreo75]

See above, image is misleading. Mark probably should have been set at about 43, was set at 40, not a huge issue. Definitely not the 48m that that misleading photo is trying to suggest.

Get lost

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Get lost

Glad to see you're being reaosnable and still aren't just having a whinge that the better side beat you on the night.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I was at the game with a perfect view. It's exactly as stated in the photo and above, not your made up version.

I was at the game too genius. Watch the replay again. I've watched it plenty of times i can assure you that

 

[FlowersByIrene]

That is complete nonsense

Here is the boundary umpire signalling on the full View attachment 937898

View attachment 937899 This is him then moving UP to the set the mark


So at that point it’s irrelevant who’s kick it is, Carltons or Fremantle’s, the boundary umpire went up to set the mark where the ball left the field of play.

Exactly as i said, calls out of bounds down by that white line, then we don't see him set the mark because of the confusion. He's not setting the mark in that shot above, just standing there. You can't say he's setting the mark on the 50 there, we have no indication where he thought the mark was set until the field umpire sets it for the shot. Obviously the boundary umpire told the field umpire where to set it. Therefore where it was set eventually was obviously where the umpire thought it went out of bounds.

Any suggesting the Boundary Umpire set it at the 50 is ludicrously wrong.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

and if you watch the footage again the ball was out before the 50m mark so the mark should of been even further away. Why are you defending your clubs cheating ways. Call a spade a spade and admit you stole an undeserved victory due to umpire negligence.

Where the umpire sets it is where the umpire sets it. If you wanna play the minutae game, go for it.

Carltons hould have won by 3 goals had the game been umpired fairly, so I have no qualms about defending the correct and accurate umpiring at the death.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Have not read whole thread, but after seeing the vision today of mark setting, taking out of it the wrong bloke got the kick, I am unsure how anyone can defend this. If I was a Blues supporter I would be laughing my **** off that we got an absolute wristy from the umps here and got the win because of it. This however is another in a long list of umpire howlers from this season, where it seems they are worse than ever before. The game is becoming unwatchable in large parts due to the absolute incompetence of the umpiring, though I agree they are not helped by the rule tinkering all the time.

Why wouldn't Gibbons have kicked it if he had of got it?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Can’t the field Umpire talk with the boundary umpIre?

He would have, and the boundary umnpire confirmed where the mark was - being where Newnes kicked it from.

 

[manureid]

Why wouldn't Gibbons have kicked it if he had of got it?

As I said, taking out of it that the wrong guy kicked it. The mark he kicked from was totally incorrect. 2 errors.

 

[manureid]

He would have, and the boundary umnpire confirmed where the mark was - being where Newnes kicked it from.

No he didnt, he ran away to the point post. He pointed to the mark at the 50, then ran to take up position. The field umpire ran over and marked it on the wrong spot.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

No he didnt, he ran away to the point post. He pointed to the mark at the 50, then ran to take up position. The field umpire ran over and marked it on the wrong spot.

Show me footage of the boundary umpire pointing to the mark on the 50 and setting it there. It doesn't exist.

 

[flamethrower]

Can you point me to the law where it says that? I've been through the 2020 laws and can't find it. In fact I can't find any reference to "downfield" free kicks at all.

My understanding is that downfield free kicks are now encompassed in this clause:

18.1.2 Awarding Free Kicks
Unless otherwise stated in these Laws, a Free Kick can be awarded at any location on
the Arena and shall be taken where it is awarded or where the football is at the time,
whichever is the greater penalty against the offending Team. For the avoidance of doubt,
Free Kicks awarded outside the Playing Surface will be taken at the nearest location on
the Boundary Line or where the football is at the time, whichever is the greater penalty
against the offending Team.

According to this, the free kick should have been awarded "where the football is at the time", and not back to the player infringed against (Docherty).

The grey area to me is "where the football is at the time". I'm assuming it means where the football is when the umpire awards the free kick and not when the infringement occurs. But who knows?

This is the current (and only relevant) rule...it was simplified in about 2019.

Under the previous rule, the ball would have gone back to the point where Docherty kicked it, as it did not land in the field of play. This rule often disadvantaged the team receiving the free kick.

The revised rule allows the field umpire to make a judgement call on where to award the free kick, as as to least disadvantage the team receiving the free kick. So is the ball lands out of bounds, or goes through for a point, the free kick can now be awarded at a spot on the field closest to where the ball landed (not necessarily where it crossed the boundary line).

In this example, the ball appears to land about 40m out from Carlton's goal but crossed the boundary at around 50m out. Therefore if it was Fremantle's free kick for "out of bounds on the full", it would have been taken where the ball crossed the line (50m out) whereas because it was Carlton's "downfield" free it was awarded 40m out from Carlton's goal. In each case that would be "the greater penalty against the offending team".

 

[PowerForGood]

Haha righto.. yeah 2 of your 5 goals for the game "doesn't influence the result"

Just to clarify I'm a Port Adel supporter and didn't particularly care about who won.

Another clear example of umpire error in the position kick was taken from by Newnes. Clearly gives an extra 10m which otherwise may not have made the distance or cleared the line.

The boundary umpire has clearly marked where the ball went out of bounds which is nearly on the 50m arc. How the heck then is the point for the free kick moved forward without the boundary umpire stepping in?

Would Newnes have been able to kick the goal from 55m out?

View attachment 937807

And that's after the playing on outside the boundary line following the "deliberate" OOB, which should have been called out of bounds itself.

 

[PowerForGood]

There's no specific rule about downfield free kicks at all any more from what I can tell.

That doesn't help matters.........

We did in 2017 - why its not there anymore who knows.

15.12 FREE KICKS AFTER DISPOSAL (a) ... a Free Kick will be paid against a player who makes Prohibited Contact to a Player who has disposed of the football or Prohibited Contact to a Player who is Shepherding a Player who has disposed of the football. The Free Kick shall be taken by the nearest Player to the location where the football touches the ground, or crosses the Boundary Line, as the case may be. If taking the Free Kick at this location will penalise the Team awarded the Free Kick, the Free Kick shall be taken by the Player against whom and at the location where Prohibited Contact was made.

 

[PowerForGood]

This is the current (and only relevant) rule...it was simplified in about 2019.

Under the previous rule, the ball would have gone back to the point where Docherty kicked it, as it did not land in the field of play. This rule often disadvantaged the team receiving the free kick.

The revised rule allows the field umpire to make a judgement call on where to award the free kick, as as to least disadvantage the team receiving the free kick. So is the ball lands out of bounds, or goes through for a point, the free kick can now be awarded at a spot on the field closest to where the ball landed (not necessarily where it crossed the boundary line).

In this example, the ball appears to land about 40m out from Carlton's goal but crossed the boundary at around 50m out. Therefore if it was Fremantle's free kick for "out of bounds on the full", it would have been taken where the ball crossed the line (50m out) whereas because it was Carlton's "downfield" free it was awarded 40m out from Carlton's goal. In each case that would be "the greater penalty against the offending team".

Previous rule would also put the mark on the 50 mtr line (refer above post).

 

[Halftimehero]

Show me footage of the boundary umpire pointing to the mark on the 50 and setting it there. It doesn't exist.

Of course he sets the mark, do you think the Carlton player who at the time thought it was a Fremantle kick is just standing their by choice if he set it any closer? Just admit Carlton got extremely lucky from an umpire error and it won them the match, it won’t make any difference you still win.