Umpires influencing games: Exhibit 1 Car v Fre

[bzparkes]

I'm talking about the process and the professionalism, not the logistics.

The problem in AFL isn't that there are 3 umpires to 1.

The problem is that in the AFL they don't check footage unless it's a score review, even if there's considerable doubt over the call they make.

NBA officials will always review the footage and stop the play if there's any doubt in their mind as to their call.

Which is how it should be in the AFL, heck how it should be in any sport, bar races I suppose. They shouldn't just have a little discussion without actually reviewing the available evidence.

Yes there are some logistical concerns to implement this, but they're minor and putting up with them would improve the game's legitimacy substantially.

Do you really want the game stopped every 10 seconds to review potential frees? That would be utterly ridiculous.

Game would be totally unwatchable.

 

[GenYBlue]

Do you really want the game stopped every 10 seconds to review potential frees? That would be utterly ridiculous.

Game would be totally unwatchable.

Of course I don't!

That's why they should only use it when they aren't sure.

It doesn't have to be "not at all" or "every ten seconds", walk the middle ground that is actually beneficial and not too disruptive.

Use it for contentious and insecure decisions, otherwise proceed as usual.

 

[bzparkes]

Of course I don't!

That's why they should only use it when they aren't sure.

It doesn't have to be "not at all" or "every ten seconds", walk the middle ground that is actually beneficial and not too disruptive.

Use it for contentious and insecure decisions, otherwise proceed as usual.

What they need to do is cut 'interpretations' out of the umpiring. Just make the rules black and white. Every other sport is like this except the AFL.

 

[carlton2dabone]

These comments are driving me insane. Every Fremantle supporter is admitting those 1st quarter frees were sh*t. But at the same time, Carlton supporters seem completely oblivious to the fact that in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, the ledger was squared with the Cripps throw and Casboult pushout. There were horrible decisions all over the place in equal favour of both sides. Holding the ball, in the back, ruck contests, deliberate ... it was a complete mess. Regardless, what happened over the whole game is irrelevant when discussing the sequence of howlers from the umpires at the end.

noooo, there’s 2 types of bad calls by umpires I would say.

1. an infringement where the umpire misses a free kick and play continues and a team wins the ball and benefits from it..
this is still a free that should be called by closer in line to just letting the play go on with less umpiring interference.

2. the other kind of free kick which is even worse is the free kick that an umpire stops the play and hands the ball to a team when there was no free kick there to begin with...

Umpires miss a million possible frees per game, from slight pushes in back to throws to unrewarded HTB etc, but missing a free kick still allows play to continue and other players to affect the passage etc, but stopping play and handing the ball to a team when they don’t deserve it is a bigger advantage than missing a possible free.

You got 2 of those in the first quarter right in front of goal, we possibly got one in the dying seconds of the game from 50m out in the 2nd row of seats.

 

[GenYBlue]

What they need to do is cut 'interpretations' out of the umpiring. Just make the rules black and white. Every other sport is like this except the AFL.

I agree with this notion.

However I'm talking about something they could hypothetically implement tomorrow to immediate benefit.

A complete overhaul of the rules would take considerable time and money to draft and implement.

They are literally already filming the games, so why not use that footage to help out the umpires?

You brought up the point of the game being unwatchable if it were stopped every 10 seconds (which is true), but I'm also finding it near-unwatchable when the umpires consistently and blatantly make heinous errors in judgement, which I feel could be mitigated with such a system.

 

[living_in_syd]

Of course I don't!

That's why they should only use it when they aren't sure.

It doesn't have to be "not at all" or "every ten seconds", walk the middle ground that is actually beneficial and not too disruptive.

Use it for contentious and insecure decisions, otherwise proceed as usual.

I think a challenge system could work

 

[Fadge]

What they need to do is cut 'interpretations' out of the umpiring. Just make the rules black and white. Every other sport is like this except the AFL.

If I could give this post 1000 likes, I would.

This is spot on.

Redefine the rules so as it is very clear to everyone (umpires, players and supporters). Sure there will continue to be mistakes from the umpires, but these will be the exception rather than the rule. Right now the players have NFI what is expected of them by the umpires (and this changes week to week, umpire to umpire).

 

[Purple Suit]

yeah nah, if you don’t get those 2 gifted goals in the 1st quarter which was 30% of your overall score, who says you are even close enough in that final quarter that the last decision effects who wins?

treat the last passage of play as any other passage of play during the whole game, if bad decisions and contentious passages of play benefit you scoring early, don’t complain if they go against you later.

we all want consistent umpiring and no bad decisions, But if you are going to benefit on the scoreboard early from bad decisions don’t complain later when the opposition does the same etc

They are 2 decisions vs 6 decisions in a row which did cost us the game. Not comparable as the last decision x 6 is what gifted you the win with a Brilliant kick and gave us no chance to recover.

You must have winner’s remorse and are desperately looking for justification for your charity.

 

[ApplecrossWC]

What's with the Carlton supporters in here? Normally it's the supporters of the losing team who embarrass themselves, where as this time it's the opposite.

 

[hoddo22]

Well it's completely relevant, as there's only one ref in NBA vs 3 field umpires in AFL due to the ground size.

No wonder you'd think NBA refs are 'better' because 1; it's a hell of a lot easier to officiate and, 2; there's only 1 umpire so their decisions should be consistent.

There's 3 refs in an Nba game.

On SM-A530F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Randomizor]

Even if you ignore all the other questions about whether the free was even there, I don’t understand why there can’t be an off-field umpire to correct other issues like ensuring the ball goes to the right player. Why can’t an umpire up in one of the boxes go “Actually that’s Gibbs kick”?

 

[Fadge]

Why can’t an umpire up in one of the boxes go “Actually that’s Gibbs kick”?

I know it was a poor decision, but at least he gave it to a player who was playing for the same team, and not a bloke who wasn't in the state and can't get a game for this year's wooden spooners!

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I haven't read the whole thread but have we completely ignored the two bs frees in the first quarter to Freo that ended up goals?

 

[PowerForGood]

I haven't read the whole thread but have we completely ignored the two bs frees in the first quarter to Freo that ended up goals?

No, but we know they dont influence the result as much.
and you clearly agree, because you won’t be concentrating on anyone else’s goal in the second quarter for winning the game, just Newnes’ after the siren.
The sequence of the last 5 minutes was as one sided as you’ll find, and the last 30 seconds had that many debatable umpiring decisions all going one way ... amazing.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

No, but we know they dont influence the result as much.
and you clearly agree, because you won’t be concentrating on anyone else’s goal in the second quarter for winning the game, just Newnes’ after the siren.
The sequence of the last 5 minutes was as one sided as you’ll find, and the last 30 seconds had that many debatable umpiring decisions all going one way ... amazing.

Haha righto.. yeah 2 of your 5 goals for the game "doesn't influence the result"

 

[Erick_the_Greatest]

I'd be disgusted to accept a win like that.

After the umps nearly handed u a win against us paying 50m for literally nothing

 

[eastfreo75]

Umpires are just getting too emotional and not doing their next job

1. Taberner taps and free kick is reward to the Blues.
2. Controlling Umpire needs to know where the mark is.
3. Controlling umpire needs to determine if the Ball was legally brought back into play.
4. Controlling umpire needs to determine if the contact after the kick was intentional or incidental.
5. Umpire down field needs to know where the ball crossed the line. If he isn’t sure speak to the boundary umpire.
6. Locate the closest player, if not sure ask the boundary umpire or the other field umpire.
7. Controlling umpire should have cleared the path of the kicker.

Umpires getting caught in the moment isn’t professional.

Umpires are not perfect but don’t make things up and guess.

 

[Freomaniac]

Free kick was there.

Should never have been downfield though as it went out on the full.

Also Newnes never should have had the kick, had to be Gibbons.

It was an absolute shitshow, i'm glad we were on the right end of it but i'd be fuming if i were a Fremantle fan.

Also you won't find a Carlton supporter who doesn't agree that the state of umpiring at the moment is atrocious.

Meh we are freo supporters. No point complaining. even if freo did complain, I doubt the AFL would do anything. Imagine if it was a grand final.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Another clear example of umpire error in the position kick was taken from by Newnes. Clearly gives an extra 10m which otherwise may not have made the distance or cleared the line.

The boundary umpire has clearly marked where the ball went out of bounds which is nearly on the 50m arc. How the heck then is the point for the free kick moved forward without the boundary umpire stepping in?

Would Newnes have been able to kick the goal from 55m out?

 

[Halftimehero]

thats my point though, it was 'iffy' it gets paid one minute and not the next. was it there, technically yes so you can't sook when it is paid. The only reason it is a sore point is it is last minute of the game, so people get carried away in their emotions about it.

Think everyone could point out an extra 20 frees that should or shouldn't have been paid during the game,

But the fact that everyone is making a conspiracy out of it is ridiculous.

Does the umpire know that Jack Newnes would be more likely to kick the goal than Gibbons? Do they know that it was to be the last kick of the match? No.

Did the umps want Carlton to win? There were bad calls all night long, thats the game. Umps have a crap and thankless job. As I have said it is just nice to be on the other end of it.

In regards to where the kick was taken from, where were the boundary umps? That is their job. We have something the umps don't replays.

Had the two first quarter free kicks which resulted in Freo goal (which were wrong calls) not been paid, would this be an issue?

Swings and roundabouts.

Last weeks game v West Coast, we were on the wrong end and it sucks but you move on and not make a thread being so salty and bitter about it.

I would like a fair and even game, but no game is that way. There are three Human umpires who will each make different calls and aren't always in the best spots.

But according to some Freo supporters we should have a royal commission on this because it is unfair.

Seems the boundary umpire did get it right, the field umpire then gets it completely wrong, make no mistake this cost Fremantle the game, it’s just not good enough.

 

[Fadge]

View attachment 937826

Seems the boundary umpire did get it right, the field umpire then gets it completely wrong, make no mistake this cost Fremantle the game, it’s just not good enough.

Yep, Amateur hour.

 

[D-N-R]

Another clear example of umpire error in the position kick was taken from by Newnes. Clearly gives an extra 10m which otherwise may not have made the distance or cleared the line.

The boundary umpire has clearly marked where the ball went out of bounds which is nearly on the 50m arc. How the heck then is the point for the free kick moved forward without the boundary umpire stepping in?

Would Newnes have been able to kick the goal from 55m out?

View attachment 937807

The boundary umpire that indicated first was probably manning the point post. The boundary ump in the 2nd pic is different. Field umpire made a big blunder here.

 

[sherb]

Even if it was there, it can’t be paid down field once it goes out on the full....

Can you point me to the law where it says that? I've been through the 2020 laws and can't find it. In fact I can't find any reference to "downfield" free kicks at all.

My understanding is that downfield free kicks are now encompassed in this clause:

18.1.2 Awarding Free Kicks
Unless otherwise stated in these Laws, a Free Kick can be awarded at any location on
the Arena and shall be taken where it is awarded or where the football is at the time,
whichever is the greater penalty against the offending Team. For the avoidance of doubt,
Free Kicks awarded outside the Playing Surface will be taken at the nearest location on
the Boundary Line or where the football is at the time, whichever is the greater penalty
against the offending Team.

According to this, the free kick should have been awarded "where the football is at the time", and not back to the player infringed against (Docherty).

The grey area to me is "where the football is at the time". I'm assuming it means where the football is when the umpire awards the free kick and not when the infringement occurs. But who knows?

 

[sherb]

Lol no specific rule about what happens when it’s out on the full. They’ve over legislated this game yet there are still gaps in the rules. Bunch of spuds running this organisation.

There's no specific rule about downfield free kicks at all any more from what I can tell.

That doesn't help matters.........

 

[Halftimehero]

The two frees to the Dockers in the first quarter were no different to the deliberate call and the decision to pay the down field free, all 50/50s, putting all that aside Carlton getting to take the shot 10/15m closer is what cost Fremantle the match.