Underwhelming/Underachieving players

[Prestigerrycomo]

So are you.

But now let's cue your response, so that you can have the last word, to "win" the argument and add points to your internet credibility score.

Bloke posts at a rate of 20 posts/day. He obviously doesn't have much else in his life

 

[Chaisa]

Err no clearly you don't watch many hawks games. Is not Alex Rance but is rarely beaten. Has arguably the best record of any defender on Buddy. You don't notice him much because he is purely a stopper. Don't let that get in the way of your judgement to his importance to our team though.

In saying that though his numbers are quite a bit worse than his 2010/11 peak. He wasn't always just a stopper.

 

[TheRealComptroller]

Some weird and terrible calls in this.

Crawford was a star and probably ends up in a new Hawks team of the century. Just because you dont match your best season every season doesnt make you underwhelming.

LLoyd was the best FF in the AFL for almost all his career and could have kicked 1000 if he didnt retire early. Terrible call.

On Crawford - out of almost 700 players he was considered by them to be the best of them all in 1999. The idea that he would only be an AA once more in his career would have been totally incomprehensible to me if you told me that in 1999.

—

With Matthew Lloyd I hopefully don’t think I’m being a dick for thinking that his output was just a tad below what his wunderkind form (he had a 7 goal/30 touch game when just 18) would have suggested. Perhaps there might be an EFC fan who might agree with me?

FWIW in 1996 I wouldn’t have believed the following things would happen -

He never kicked an H&A 100.

He never won an AFLPA MVP.

He averaged under 3.5 goals a game.

—-

BTW I don’t know if your claim that he “could have kicked 1000 if he didnt retire early” is totally accurate.

He was 31.5 when he retired. Hardly hella young IMO. In his last season he averaged less than two goals a game. At that rate he needed close to two complete seasons to reach 1,000.

 

[Topkent]

On Crawford - out of almost 700 players he was considered by them to be the best of them all in 1999. The idea that he would only be an AA once more in his career would have been totally incomprehensible to me if you told me that in 1999.

—

With Matthew Lloyd I hopefully don’t think I’m being a dick for thinking that his output was just a tad below what his wunderkind form (he had a 7 goal/30 touch game when just 18) would have suggested. Perhaps there might be an EFC fan who might agree with me?

FWIW in 1996 I wouldn’t have believed the following things would happen -

He never kicked an H&A 100.

He never won an AFLPA MVP.

He averaged under 3.5 goals a game.

—-

BTW I don’t know if your claim that he “could have kicked 1000 if he didnt retire early” is totally accurate.

He was 31.5 when he retired. Hardly hella young IMO. In his last season he averaged less than two goals a game. At that rate he needed close to two complete seasons to reach 1,000.

Crawford was considered the best by the umpires, the brownlow is the dumbest most irrelevant award in world sport. Leigh Matthews, Wayne Carey Buddy Franklin and Garry Ablett Snr never won one. Who cares about that award.

He was a 4x AA 4x BNF winner, Captain for 5 years. If he had won the 4x AA from the age of 27-31 you wouldnt have the same issue. Not everyones career has to be linear and Hawthorn were mostly terrible the 2nd half of his career. Much harder to win AA in a bad team.

Lloyd finished 8th on the all time goals list. Unbelievably bad call, Who cares if the players never voted him the best?
He kicked 7 or more 23 times in his career. Stop tryint to justify such a bad call

 

[TheRealComptroller]

Crawford was considered the best by the umpires, the brownlow is the dumbest most irrelevant award in world sport. Leigh Matthews, Wayne Carey Buddy Franklin and Garry Ablett Snr never won one. Who cares about that award.

Dude I don’t give a shit about the Brownlow. I never mentioned it. Reread my post. I was referring to the AFLPA declaring him to be their best player of 1999.

 

[Topkent]

Dude I don’t give a shit about the Brownlow. I never mentioned it. Reread my post. I was referring to the AFLPA declaring him to be their best player of 1999.

So you need other peoples validation to make your opinions?
The players are playing, majority of them wouldnt watch more than 1 or 2 games a week. They literally just read an article and vote

 

[TheRealComptroller]

So you need other peoples validation to make your opinions?
The players are playing, majority of them wouldnt watch more than 1 or 2 games a week. They literally just read an article and vote

So someone else should have won the 1999 MVP?

If I had access to the list of 1999 media awards I’d be willing to reconsider his worthiness for this award. It’s not perfect but I don’t think there are epic mistakes on the list of winners of the Leigh Matthews Trophy; unlike the Brownlow.

I’m being a little disloyal but Franklin probably should have won it over Ablett in 2008 and I think many thought Gawn would have been a better winner in 2018 over Tom Mitchell. Perhaps Judd 2011?

Damon_3388 what do you think?

Winning this award is a sign that you were at minimum one of the best handful of players of that season.

 

[Topkent]

So someone else should have won the 1999 MVP?

If I had access to the list of 1999 media awards I’d be willing to reconsider his worthiness for this award. It’s not perfect but I don’t think there are epic mistakes on the list of winners of the Leigh Matthews Trophy; unlike the Brownlow.

I’m being a little disloyal but Franklin probably should have won it over Ablett in 2008 and I think many thought Gawn would have been a better winner in 2018 over Tom Mitchell. Perhaps Judd 2011?

Damon_3388 what do you think?

Winning this award is a sign that you were at minimum one of the best handful of players of that season.

You are completely missing my point. Just because he played his best season in 1999 doesnt make the rest of his career a failure. Everyone has their best season at some stage.

 

[TheRealComptroller]

He kicked 7 or more 23 times in his career.

Dude he never kicked a ton without the help of finals.

Only three times did he kick 10+.

That’s kinda underwhelming IMO based on what he showed as a kid.

I was anticipating Dunstall/Lockett type numbers.

This thread is about who we were wrong about. My expectations in 1996 for Lloyd weren’t met. What don’t you understand? Hey posters, what players were you underwhelmed by? Get it? I don’t think you will. You brought up the Brownlow and I hadn’t even mentioned it. You said it was harder for Crawford to make AA because Hawthorn weren’t as good later. Serious WTF. He made it in 1998 when they finished bottom four and in 1999 when they didn’t play finals. Hawthorn made (and won) finals in 2000 and 2001 and he didn’t get AA selection. Also three Hawks made the 2005 AA team when they finished 14th. Your analysis is worthless.

 

[Topkent]

Dude he never kicked a ton without the help of finals.

Only three times did he kick 10+.

That’s kinda underwhelming IMO based on what he showed as a kid.

I was anticipating Dunstall/Lockett type numbers.

The game changed, you should have been underwhelmed by the AFL not LLoyd. Key forwards didnt get the space to kick goals like Plugga and Chief.

 

[PP34]

Chris Yarran!

Yarran’s a good one. Had freakish speed and good skills running off the half back line in 2011. I thought that was the start of him being an elite half back.

Instead he was shuffled around by Ratten and Malthouse after that and before you know it his AFL career was done after being traded to Richmond. And who knows when and how much of an influence his ice problem had on his career.

 

[4THAWN]

James Frawley

All Australian in 2010 and now just a bog average key defender

played vital roles in the threepeat finals. Stopped kenedy twice i believe in 2015 finals, as well as pav and buddy i think

 

[Crashy]

I thought Curtley Hampton was going to win a brownlow, got that a bit wrong.

 

[Damon_3388]

So someone else should have won the 1999 MVP?

If I had access to the list of 1999 media awards I’d be willing to reconsider his worthiness for this award. It’s not perfect but I don’t think there are epic mistakes on the list of winners of the Leigh Matthews Trophy; unlike the Brownlow.

I’m being a little disloyal but Franklin probably should have won it over Ablett in 2008 and I think many thought Gawn would have been a better winner in 2018 over Tom Mitchell. Perhaps Judd 2011?

Damon_3388 what do you think?

Winning this award is a sign that you were at minimum one of the best handful of players of that season.

Either Brett Ratten or Wayne Carey should have been AFLPA MVP in 1999.

That doesn't detract from the quality of Crawford's season or career, though.

 

[Ambrosia]

A lot of draft pundits had him linked to us at pick 5 and there were some raised eyebrows when we went for De Goey.

Ended up slipping to pick 20 and that was still too high.

He has been perennially injured in his defence

 

[Ambrosia]

On Crawford - out of almost 700 players he was considered by them to be the best of them all in 1999. The idea that he would only be an AA once more in his career would have been totally incomprehensible to me if you told me that in 1999.

—

With Matthew Lloyd I hopefully don’t think I’m being a dick for thinking that his output was just a tad below what his wunderkind form (he had a 7 goal/30 touch game when just 18) would have suggested. Perhaps there might be an EFC fan who might agree with me?

FWIW in 1996 I wouldn’t have believed the following things would happen -

He never kicked an H&A 100.

He never won an AFLPA MVP.

He averaged under 3.5 goals a game.

—-

BTW I don’t know if your claim that he “could have kicked 1000 if he didnt retire early” is totally accurate.

He was 31.5 when he retired. Hardly hella young IMO. In his last season he averaged less than two goals a game. At that rate he needed close to two complete seasons to reach 1,000.

Early retirement and Mathew Knights moving him away from FF cost him the 1,000

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Jack Darling
Built like Tarzan, plays like Jane and often goes missing in big games...

 

[Nolo180]

Jack Darling
Built like Tarzan, plays like Jane and often goes missing in big games...

View attachment 660738

He seriously has a flip top head. Gets a heap of free kicks from flopping around. In fairness he generally hits the scoreboard from his limited possession count though. Doesnt seem to get the frees away from home so goes missing when it really matters...

 

[NonPhixion]

Mason Wood owns this thread
The guy has very short moments where he looks like he could be an absolute gun, but consistently disappoints

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

reckon petracca is getting to this point. not that he's bad but i think we all had him penciled in as a potential match winner a couple years ago. reckon he needs to drop a few kgs. he doesn't look mobile enough in traffic to really be a great forward or midfielder. i know at start of his career he's had injuries but he's had enough games and continuity to be better than he is. de goey and brayshaw have flown past him in last 12 months.

now i've said that watch him kick 6 tomorrow

 

[Dynamics]

He has been perennially injured in his defence

A little like Scharenberg.

How has Laverde looked when he has strung a few games together? Scharenberg showed enough last year that we could tell he's an elite footballing talent. Would be a star if his knees would let him.

Fingers crossed they both get a fair run at it at some stage. There are few more frustrating things in footy than players with talent who have careers cruelled by inuries.

 

[Mikey13G]

Yarran’s a good one. Had freakish speed and good skills running off the half back line in 2011. I thought that was the start of him being an elite half back.

Instead he was shuffled around by Ratten and Malthouse after that and before you know it his AFL career was done after being traded to Richmond. And who knows when and how much of an influence his ice problem had on his career.

Yarran was always one of my favourite players especially after watching Three Boys Dreaming and seeing his journey. Coaching may have played a part but I think losing some of his close friends at Carlton like Eddie Betts and his family ultimately bought on his downfall.

 

[iameviljez]

Dude I don’t give a shit about the Brownlow. I never mentioned it. Reread my post. I was referring to the AFLPA declaring him to be their best player of 1999.

Crawford was clearly the best player in the league in 1999 IIRC. And the AFLPA tend to get it right far more often than not, TBH.

 

[iameviljez]

Jack Darling
Built like Tarzan, plays like Jane and often goes missing in big games...

Makes zero sense, he's very much undersized for a tall forward player. If he was Buddy's size he'd be in the conversation for best tall in the league.

 

[Warhorse]

Cam guthrie