US Election 2020: President Biden and VP Harris - The Aftermath

[spinynorman]

No doubt that its broken. Thing is, it ain't gonna be fixed until they get an independent federal body in to run things along the lines of what we have here with the AEC - but the 2 parties will never come to an agreement on that structure at the federal level, and the states would never go for it anyway so....

One things for sure, shouting "we was robbed" every time you lose one ain't gonna fix anything either. But watch it happen anyway now that Trump has kicked that particular door down.

For sure, and the Arizona audit is so plainly ridiculous it’s barely worth talking about.

That said, the Democrats should call the bluff of these Republicans who are now so fraudulently worried about democracy and bring forward measures that would actually fix some of the problems with their shoddy system and see what they can get up. The ideological incoherence of modern post-Trump conservatism also allows for them to have an infinite flexibility on every possible issue, so now should be a time of maximum ambition.

 

[bourbons]

take the trump cray out of it.. he is gone. He is not coming back.

I'm not so sure about that. Starting up rallies again next month, and I reckon he'd be in with a pretty decent shot against Kamala if she's their nom. If he loses - this whole song and dance plays out again, no doubt of that at this point surely. Even if he does just jet off into the sunset, I'm unconvinced this fraud line won't continue to be trotted out by the GOP for years to come.

and yet the history of electronic voting machines tell a very different story..
They’ve installed machines at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars ‘that were connected to the internet’ that’s whole purpose is to create enough doubt and grey area to ensure certain candidates win..

should’ve just used a pen.

good docco about it.. well before trumpist cray.

Kill Chain: The Cyber War on America's Elections

Learn more about the HBO documentary Kill Chain: The Cyber War on America's Elections.

www.hbo.com

I agree there are problems, I just don't see what alternative there is at present - like I said, it sure as s**t ain't screaming about fraud every time you lose (and I don't believe that fraud could be perpetrated in such a widespread, organised, systematic manner without leaving so much as single digital fingerprint).

The machines used is one of the things an ideal independent election commission could focus on. But its so much more than that - different ID requirements, s**t voter roles and rules around them, multi-hour wait times... its a mess, but while neither side is willing to fix it I don't see much point arguing the finer details.

 

[DesertRoo]

I'm not so sure about that. Starting up rallies again next month, and I reckon he'd be in with a pretty decent shot against Kamala if she's their nom. But even if he loses - this whole song and dance plays out again, no doubt of that at this point surely.

I agree there are problems, I just don't see what alternative there is at present - like I said, it sure as sh*t ain't screaming about fraud every time you lose (and I don't believe that fraud could be perpetrated in such a widespread, systematic manner without leaving so much as single digital fingerprint).

The machines used is one of the things an ideal independent election commission could focus on. But its so much more than that - different ID requirements, different processes and procedures, multi-hour wait times... its a mess, but while neither side is willing to fix it I don't see much point arguing the finer details.

The whole point of having a cyber security firm run the audit is there will be a digital footprint.. they’ve been stone walled every step of the way.. judge orders to hand over splunk logs and router keys have been denied, even to the point they admitted the machines were connected to every sever in the country. I guess that is a calculated risk.
For something as important as election integrity, handing this info over should be a no brainer..


The multi hour wait times could be fixed by having more election sites open.
the whole point of it is to deter voters. Old suppression techniques, like holding elections on a Tuesday, so workers can’t go out and vote in force..
electronic voting systems certainly ain’t the answer. especially in emerica where they vote for everything, including Police chiefs and DA’s. The flow on effect is massive..

Worth a watch from 2000

 

[bourbons]

The whole point of having a cyber security firm run the audit is there will be a digital footprint.. they’ve been stone walled every step of the way.. judge orders to hand over splunk logs and router keys have been denied, even to the point they admitted the machines were connected to every sever in the country. I guess that is a calculated risk.
For something as important as election integrity, handing this info over should be a no brainer..

They're getting the resistance they are because of who they are and their purpose for being there. Like I said, if you want a proper audit, why wouldn't you get a company who

1. Has relevant experience, and
2. Is reputable and even handed?

Coz the answer is - the people who put them in to do it (Arizona GOP) don't want a proper process. Its not an audit, its a bunch of people starting with a pre-determined notion (that fraud occurred) looking for something, anything they can find to back that up, in literally any way that they can. They're looking for bamboo fibres in ballots for christs sake

So of course the 'other side' don't want it happening, a fact recently acknowledged by an Arizona Republican talk show host.

If the Democrats in Arizona had done any, let alone all, of the same things after losing a statewide election here, I — and every Republican — would be screaming for their audit to be shut down, too.

The Arizona election audit cannot accomplish its stated goals. It's time to focus on the future.

I respect my state's Republican leaders and their intentions in starting the process. But the audit has gotten out of hand and is now hurting the party.

www.nbcnews.com

The multi hour wait times could be fixed by having more election sites open.
the whole point of it is to deter voters. Old suppression techniques, like holding elections on a Tuesday, so workers can’t go out and vote in force..
electronic voting systems certainly ain’t the answer. especially in emerica where they vote for everything, including Police chiefs and DA’s. The flow on effect is massive..

Yeah, I know. Guess which party wants more sites, and which party wants less.

And yep the voting on a Tuesday is another big one, although to be fair I don't see the democrats pushing much against that either.

 

[DesertRoo]

They're getting the resistance they are because of who they are and their purpose for being there. Like I said, if you want a proper audit, why wouldn't you get a company who

1. Has relevant experience, and
2. Is reputable and even handed?

Coz the answer is - the people who put them in to do it (Arizona GOP) don't want a proper process. Its not an audit, its a bunch of people starting with a pre-determined notion (that fraud occurred) looking for something, anything they can find to back that up, in literally any way that they can. They're looking for bamboo fibres in ballots for christs sake

So of course the 'other side' don't want it happening, a fact recently acknowledged by an Arizona Republican talk show host.

The Arizona election audit cannot accomplish its stated goals. It's time to focus on the future.

I respect my state's Republican leaders and their intentions in starting the process. But the audit has gotten out of hand and is now hurting the party.

www.nbcnews.com

Yeah, I know. Guess which party wants more sites, and which party wants less.

And yep the voting on a Tuesday is another big one, although to be fair I don't see the democrats pushing much against that either.

So what ever comes of this audit, you’ve already dismissed as a partisan shitshow… Interesting starting point, pre-determined notion.

especially from anyone who has looked into election integrity in America.

 

[Generalissimo]

Bit of a stretch, surely ???

Typo for "asshat" maybe?

 

[bourbons]

So what ever comes of this audit, you’ve already dismissed as a partisan shitshow… Interesting starting point, pre-determined notion.

especially from anyone who has looked into election integrity in America.

This audit? I mean.. yeah pretty much. Reckon I'd sit up and take notice if their conclusions were corroborated by other sources, or successful court action was undertaken on the back of their findings for example.

But the point is I wouldn't have that pre-determined view if a reputable, professional company were doing the audit in the first place.

 

[DesertRoo]

This audit? I mean.. yeah pretty much. Reckon I'd sit up and take notice if their conclusions were corroborated by other sources, or successful court action was undertaken on the back of their findings for example.

But the point is I wouldn't have that pre-determined view if a reputable, professional company were doing the audit in the first place.

But they’re pretty well known in the cyber security world..

And what is alleged is a cyber crime…

So discounting the audit because they’re not a tabulation company is a little bit silly imo.. especially when you’ve got people like dr Jill Stein fighting for years to access the source code of these very machines..

Until we see the results, I believe everyone should have an open mind.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

But they’re pretty well known in the cyber security world..

And what is alleged is a cyber crime…

So discounting the audit because they’re not a tabulation company is a little bit silly imo.. especially when you’ve got people like dr Jill Stein fighting for years to access the source code of these very machines..

Until we see the results, I believe everyone should have an open mind.

If these cyber people are so technologically advanced, they would have accessed the system remotely to prove it has vulnerabilities.

But they couldn't even achieve that?

 

[bourbons]

But they’re pretty well known in the cyber security world..

And what is alleged is a cyber crime…

So discounting the audit because they’re not a tabulation company is a little bit silly imo.. especially when you’ve got people like dr Jill Stein fighting for years to access the source code of these very machines..

Until we see the results, I believe everyone should have an open mind.

I'll take your word for it, but its not just the cyber security stuff they're doing. For instance, why is a cyber security company examining ballots for traces of bamboo fibres (lol) and some nonsense about folds in paper ballots? These guys didn't even know they shouldn't use blue pens

In my mind it comes back to the question of why them in the first place. You're telling me there wasn't a single other company in the US that has experience in both cyber security and elections who doesn't have a conspiracy theorist CEO thats on record as being all in on the Big Lie? Surely Occam's Razor says they were employed because they're going to be particularly sympathetic to results their employers (the GOP) would really love to see, rather their ability to carry out any objective analysis or them being the best option available.

 

[DesertRoo]

If these cyber people are so technologically advanced, they would have accessed the system remotely to prove it has vulnerabilities.

But they couldn't even achieve that?

???
What you’ve stated is unequivocally false.
I posted a movie called ‘kill chain’ a couple of posts up, watch it, because they did exactly that, this was before the election, they smashed the notion at defcon that these machines were safe and not connected to the net..

 

[Ghost Patrol]

???
What you’ve stated is equivocally false.
I posted a movie called ‘kill chain’ a couple of posts up, watch it, because they did exactly that, this was before the election, they smashed the notion at defcon that these machines were safe and not connected to the net..

If they were connected to the net, they should be able to ping them.

Is the cyber security business run by boomers?

 

[DesertRoo]

I'll take your word for it, but its not just the cyber security stuff they're doing. For instance, why is a cyber security company examining ballots for traces of bamboo fibres (lol) and some nonsense about folds in paper ballots? These guys didn't even know they shouldn't use blue pens

In my mind it comes back to the question of why them in the first place. You're telling me there wasn't a single other company in the US that has experience in both cyber security and elections who doesn't have a conspiracy theorist CEO thats on record as believing the Big Lie? Surely Occam's Razor says they were employed because they're going to be particularly sympathetic to results their employers (the GOP) would really love to see, rather their ability to carry out any objective analysis or them being the best option available.

Not having a go at you here but I find the media using the term ‘the big lie’ repugnant.
It’s original term is referenced to when the nazi blamed the Jews for losing the First World War. Contextually it has no relevance here.

 

[DesertRoo]

If they were connected to the net, they should be able to ping them.

Is the cyber security business run by boomers?

If they were ‘connected to every server’ like they admitted, then they are in breach of election guidelines that state they’re not to be connected to any other server. Hence the use of USB’s.

 

[bourbons]

Not having a go at you here but I find the media using the term ‘the big lie’ repugnant.
It’s original term is referenced to when the nazi blamed the Jews for losing the First World War. Contextually it has no relevance here.

Its relevant in that both the media and Trump himself have used it, and I meant it in that context - just as a concise way of referring to the whole shebang.

Trump Says He’ll Appropriate ‘The Big Lie’ To Refer To His Election Loss

Top House Republican Liz Cheney, a vocal Trump critic, shot back that anyone claiming the election was stolen ‘is spreading THE BIG LIE.’

www.forbes.com

But yep fair enough, you're right its not appropriate.

 

[DesertRoo]

Its relevant in that both the media and Trump himself have used it, and I meant it in that context - just as a concise way of referring to the whole shebang.

Trump Says He’ll Appropriate ‘The Big Lie’ To Refer To His Election Loss

Top House Republican Liz Cheney, a vocal Trump critic, shot back that anyone claiming the election was stolen ‘is spreading THE BIG LIE.’

www.forbes.com

But yep fair enough, you're right its not appropriate.

I think you’ve just proved for the 6 millionth time, trumps a dolt..

 

[Chief]

I find the media using the term ‘the big lie’ repugnant

Didn’t Trump initiate use of that term?

 

[Maggie5]

I always find it fascinating how people in Australia have been polarised in American politics, to the point where legislators have said they’d like to do an audit and before the findings have been released, there’s criticism..

What legislators are you referring to? A number of states have counted and recounted and finally accepted election results.

I haven't heard of any State legislators doing an audit. Can you elaborate?

Just like that insane trump is a Russian asset that went on for two years.. people lapped it up.

I am not sure that anyone on this forum has ever accepted that Trump was a Russian asset. Where did you get this from?

 

[DesertRoo]

Didn’t Trump initiate use of that term?

The appropriation of a term used for the justification of genocide, really doesn’t fit in with a hissy fit after an election loss.. regardless whoever started it, ‘the media’ continually running with it is an issue..
Especially if they understand the original context.

 

[Chief]

It’s just a reference to Trump’s insanity.

 

[DesertRoo]

What legislators are you referring to? A number of states have counted and recounted and finally accepted election results.

I haven't heard of any State legislators doing an audit. Can you elaborate?


I am not sure that anyone on this forum has ever accepted that Trump was a Russian asset. Where did you get this from?

Maricopa County audit was requested by state legislature..

Arizona State Legislature - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Have you forgotten all the Rachael Maddow clips that were posted on here about russia/trump collusion??
2016/2017 was insane.

 

[DesertRoo]

It’s just a reference to Trump’s insanity.

But it ain’t, it’s a reference to something a lot darker,

Lazy journalism at its finest.

 

[Chief]

But it ain’t, it’s a reference to something a lot darker,

Lazy journalism at its finest.

Nah.

It was Trump’s reference to that dark chapter in history. Keep reminding people what a * head he is, I say.

 

[DesertRoo]

Nah.

It was Trump’s reference to that dark chapter in history. Keep reminding people what a fu** head he is, I say.

Analysis: Trump's 'Big Lie' about the election, explained

Even if you wanted to buy into some of Trump's lies about the election, which he now calls "The Big Lie," when you take a step back, you see the pattern his complaints follow and it becomes supremely ridiculous.

edition.cnn.com

Cbf’d really chasing this down but cnn refers to it starting from a Democrat ruckmaker..

The fact an analogy used to describe a antisemitic canard from mein kampf is happily being thrown about doesn’t really sit well with me.. it was the justification for the Holocaust.

understandable if you don’t understand the reference but a bit sick when placed within context..

 

[Chief]

From what I recall it came from “people will believe the big lie” propaganda tactics from the Germans.

Liz Cheney was the one who first used it apparently