Scape Goat Who should we trade?

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Nastyfish

Pirate
Sep 14, 2018
470
882
AFL Club
Hawthorn
It would be a huge public admission of defeat by Clarkson if we traded out Wingard, Mitchell, JOM or even Sicily, Gunston or Breust.

IMO we need to look at trading Shiels, TOB and Ceglar and take whatever we can get. We could maybe trade Worpel or Hardwick, the latter because we seem to have quite a few players that could potentially fill that void. Though I wouldn't want to trade either. I doubt we'd get value for either too.
We won’t get anything for any of those guys based on this year’s form. It’s delisting then to create a spot for drafting. Maybe that is the discussion we need to have. Where do the spots come from to fill 3-5 new fellas.
 

Wingnut19

All Australian
Apr 1, 2019
717
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We won’t get anything for any of those guys based on this year’s form. It’s delisting then to create a spot for drafting. Maybe that is the discussion we need to have. Where do the spots come from to fill 3-5 new fellas.
That’s not gonna be hard. Brooksby, Shiels, Hanrahan, Nash, Hartigan, Howe, O’Brien , Moore, Morrison and Cousins will give us plenty of spare spots if needed. Id delist the lot, but if we were to keep any it would be Moore ad Cousins.
 

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almuz

Team Captain
Mar 24, 2012
449
925
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Say Jack Reiwoldt retired, what would Richmond give us for Gunston?
Depends how win-nowish the Tigers feel. I think Reiwoldt will go around again next year, but hypothetically if he does retire this season then it does leave a decent hole in their forward line. One of the benefits of being a top of the ladder team is that they will likely have the best of the bunch for FA forwards who are willing to take a bit of a salary haircut to play for a contender.

If Tigers get found out in some way that shows them clearly to need another forward and the miss a flag this year - that could mean they value someone Gunston pretty damn high - potentially their first round pick? That might be optimistic, pick 20 to 25 ish is about where other teams would rate a 29 year old gun forward IMO.
 

HODGEYROAD

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Say Jack Reiwoldt retired, what would Richmond give us for Gunston?
I think he'll play 1 more sadly, he looks better this year than he did last year.

If he did though and Richmond felt Gunston could help them win 4 in a row then you may get Pick 18 or 19 or whatever the Tigers 1st is.
 

Hawk_francais

Cancelled
Sep 20, 2015
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No particular reason we’d trade McEvoy, Breust, Gunston or Shiels. They’ll probably be our only 30+ players on the list next year - all of them capable of good footy in more than one position.

My feeling is we’ll have to field offers from other clubs for Tom, Jom, Wingard and Sicily. Our trade ‘agenda’ will be to hang onto those players, or get really good value for them in draft picks.
 

Jazzfan

Senior List
Apr 12, 2021
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Did the bombers do so great? Fantasia is killing it at Port, Saad destroyed the bombers against the Blues and Daniher looks like the missing piece for Brisbane's serious tilt. Sure essendon got three great picks but they lost three great players and those picks now have to go through the development phase
Absolutely they did. Amazing result for them.

If you put all those three guys in the bombers side, they are still nowhere near contending. Being a middle of the road team, with an ageing list, it's a disaster.

They were forced into a rebuild they didn't want, and it will be the best thing for them in the long run. If they nail these picks, as it seems they might have, they will bounce back far quicker than trying to maintain an average, middle of the road team, in the hope it catches fire.

On our end, we tried that, and it didn't work out. We simply just need to get in as much young talent as possible. We need to nail our picks. Maginness, Downie, Mitchell and Brockman are going to be critical to our rebuild in that we have only had two picks in the top 13 the last two years.
 

Brant

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That’s not gonna be hard. Brooksby, Shiels, Hanrahan, Nash, Hartigan, Howe, O’Brien , Moore, Morrison and Cousins will give us plenty of spare spots if needed. Id delist the lot, but if we were to keep any it would be Moore ad Cousins.
You'd de-list 10 players? Including our only Full Back?

It's not the de-listing that's the issue - it's replacing them without using Pick 400. Sometimes, you're better off keeping them for 1yr instead of having to sign Pick 400 for 2yrs. I'd be looking to move some of them on - for sure, but only moving on 10x if we had a plan for replacing them.


*in saying that... if ever there was a year to reach deep into the Draft, 2021 is probably it - cos covid-19 affecting 2020 etc.
 

Blackhawk42

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That’s not gonna be hard. Brooksby, Shiels, Hanrahan, Nash, Hartigan, Howe, O’Brien , Moore, Morrison and Cousins will give us plenty of spare spots if needed. Id delist the lot, but if we were to keep any it would be Moore ad Cousins.
I'd expect Shiels, Moore, Morrison, Hartigan and Cousins to be on the list next season due to current solid form or positional/leadership requirements. The others I'm not so sure just yet.

May depend on how many decent Moneyball acquisitions we make over the next off-season combined with a strong draft hand. Not expecting to land a big name personally.
 

Mr Meeseeks

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2007
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Also re trading Titch - he’s pretty good mates and relates well to some of the younger guys in the team.

He’d be an awesome person to model your approach to work on (think he said he was at the club every day for the first few years). Imagine that factors into the likes of Scrim and CJ improving.

Same goes for the next lot of draftees - need to have people who know what it takes to be elite. The list can’t be just moneyball journeymen players + kids.
I've flipped on trading mitchell. He is too important.

Unless we get a top 10 pick which is unlikely, what is the point?
 

sohsam

All Australian
Oct 5, 2011
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I've flipped on trading mitchell. He is too important.

Unless we get a top 10 pick which is unlikely, what is the point?
Why is he too important? Can't Worpel and co take up the slack. It is not like we are in our premiership window for anyone to be too important. Even Losing Buddy in our premiership window was okay, some would say a good thing.
 

Cyzzametimbres

Senior List
Oct 10, 2018
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485
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Why is he too important? Can't Worpel and co take up the slack. It is not like we are in our premiership window for anyone to be too important. Even Losing Buddy in our premiership window was okay, some would say a good thing.
Wouldn’t want to trade him but the broken leg and shoulder issues means he’s not going to be as good as he was, defensive pressure and kicking have gone backwards. I’m sure other clubs would be interested but at a discount. Probably not worth trading.
 

Dewnior

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Dec 22, 2007
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I think Reiwoldt will go around again next year, but hypothetically if he does retire this season then it does leave a decent hole in their forward line. One of the benefits of being a top of the ladder team is that they will likely have the best of the bunch for FA forwards who are willing to take a bit of a salary haircut to play for a contender.
Vision of his efforts last night were damning. I'm not sure the hunger is still there for him.
 

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Callipygian

Team Player
May 18, 2021
5
14
AFL Club
Sydney
Hi there. The player I'm interested in is Sicily. (Your other good players are too old, or too young for you to want to trade them - I can't imagine you'd consider trading DGB.) Given the way you guys are bottoming out Sicily's not going to be in your next flag-winning team. Yet, despite his ACL he must have some currency. I know he's a bit of a hothead, but what else can you tell me about him? What are his strengths and weaknesses, what is his personality? (I don't follow the Hawks closely.) Most importantly, what's he worth? He was a late draft pick, developed into a really good player, and now is coming back from a really serious injury. He's out of contract at the end of this season and, given how competitive he appears to be, I can imagine he might prefer to be in a team that will contend.
 

VandoHawk

Premiership Player
Oct 2, 2014
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Hi there. The player I'm interested in is Sicily. (Your other good players are too old, or too young for you to want to trade them - I can't imagine you'd consider trading DGB.) Given the way you guys are bottoming out Sicily's not going to be in your next flag-winning team. Yet, despite his ACL he must have some currency. I know he's a bit of a hothead, but what else can you tell me about him? What are his strengths and weaknesses, what is his personality? (I don't follow the Hawks closely.) Most importantly, what's he worth? He was a late draft pick, developed into a really good player, and now is coming back from a really serious injury. He's out of contract at the end of this season and, given how competitive he appears to be, I can imagine he might prefer to be in a team that will contend.
Out of contract next season, not this season.
Hothead on the field but very nice person off the field. Good clubman.
Strengths are intercept marking, elite field kicking, versatility (can play forward/wing) & ability to play small or tall. Weaknesses are can be lax defensively and a little bit lazy with his kicks.
In our position we'd be asking for two firsts (with something going back) since he's contracted, valuable to our side and adds some sorely needed class. Despite the ACL a club would need to overpay.
Next season he's a FA so there's a decent chance if we struggle again he leaves but if he returns playing good football there's also a decent chance we get first round compo.
 
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cryptor

Brownlow Medallist
May 11, 2008
19,231
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Hi there. The player I'm interested in is Sicily. (Your other good players are too old, or too young for you to want to trade them - I can't imagine you'd consider trading DGB.) Given the way you guys are bottoming out Sicily's not going to be in your next flag-winning team. Yet, despite his ACL he must have some currency. I know he's a bit of a hothead, but what else can you tell me about him? What are his strengths and weaknesses, what is his personality? (I don't follow the Hawks closely.) Most importantly, what's he worth? He was a late draft pick, developed into a really good player, and now is coming back from a really serious injury. He's out of contract at the end of this season and, given how competitive he appears to be, I can imagine he might prefer to be in a team that will contend.
He's out of contract at the end of next season. We're not going to trade arguably our best player at the end of this season when his value is lowest following 18 months of no footy. Only way that will happen is if he wants to go and another club is willing to pay up big time.

Otherwise we'll hang onto him for 2022 and I expect he'll return to somewhere near his best relatively quickly. At which point if we still suck and he wants to leave then I'm sure we won't stand in his way providing the compo spits out a tier 1 compo pick which will probably end up being somewhere in the top 4.
 

Callipygian

Team Player
May 18, 2021
5
14
AFL Club
Sydney
Out of contract next season, not this season.
Hothead on the field but very nice person off the field. Good clubman.
Strengths are intercept marking, elite field kicking, versatility (can play forward/wing) & ability to play small or tall. Weaknesses are can be lax defensively and a little bit lazy with his kicks.
In our position we'd be asking for two firsts (with something going back) since he's contracted, valuable to our side and some sorely needed class. Despite the ACL a club would need to overpay.
Next season he's a FA so there's a decent chance if we struggle again he leaves but if he returns playing good football there's also a decent chance we get first round compo.
Thanks for that, Vando. Appreciate your perspective.

Given what you have written, if you're the Hawks list manager and I'm ours, I'll just touch base with his management/agent now and wait until next year when he's RFA and out of contract, and also when we'll finally be free of Buddy's salary. I'd suggest Sicily's worth maybe around 1000 DVI points, especially this close to free agency. Two first rounders, even with some change, seems more than overs given his temperament and injury history. Remember you only gave us pick 14 for Mitchell. That was a steal and we knew it. Sicily is not worth anywhere as much as Mitchell was coming into his prime at the end of 2016.

I wouldn't be confident you'd get a first rounder for Sicily as FA compo. You'd have to bank on him having a really excellent 2022.
 

threesixpio

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 28, 2013
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Thanks for that, Vando. Appreciate your perspective.

Given what you have written, if you're the Hawks list manager and I'm ours, I'll just touch base with his management/agent now and wait until next year when he's RFA and out of contract, and also when we'll finally be free of Buddy's salary. I'd suggest Sicily's worth maybe around 1000 DVI points, especially this close to free agency. Two first rounders, even with some change, seems more than overs given his temperament and injury history. Remember you only gave us pick 14 for Mitchell. That was a steal and we knew it. Sicily is not worth anywhere as much as Mitchell was coming into his prime at the end of 2016.

I wouldn't be confident you'd get a first rounder for Sicily as FA compo. You'd have to bank on him having a really excellent 2022.
Go away
 

spudmaster

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 13, 2010
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Thanks for that, Vando. Appreciate your perspective.

Given what you have written, if you're the Hawks list manager and I'm ours, I'll just touch base with his management/agent now and wait until next year when he's RFA and out of contract, and also when we'll finally be free of Buddy's salary. I'd suggest Sicily's worth maybe around 1000 DVI points, especially this close to free agency. Two first rounders, even with some change, seems more than overs given his temperament and injury history. Remember you only gave us pick 14 for Mitchell. That was a steal and we knew it. Sicily is not worth anywhere as much as Mitchell was coming into his prime at the end of 2016.

I wouldn't be confident you'd get a first rounder for Sicily as FA compo. You'd have to bank on him having a really excellent 2022.
You only gave us picks 39, 46 and 70 for Benny and Kennedy, however neither are relevant to the Sicily scenario.
 

VandoHawk

Premiership Player
Oct 2, 2014
4,272
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Thanks for that, Vando. Appreciate your perspective.

Given what you have written, if you're the Hawks list manager and I'm ours, I'll just touch base with his management/agent now and wait until next year when he's RFA and out of contract, and also when we'll finally be free of Buddy's salary. I'd suggest Sicily's worth maybe around 1000 DVI points, especially this close to free agency. Two first rounders, even with some change, seems more than overs given his temperament and injury history. Remember you only gave us pick 14 for Mitchell. That was a steal and we knew it. Sicily is not worth anywhere as much as Mitchell was coming into his prime at the end of 2016.

I wouldn't be confident you'd get a first rounder for Sicily as FA compo. You'd have to bank on him having a really excellent 2022.
Probably agree with that course of action if I'm in the shoes of another club. See if he rebounds from an ACL then pick him up with minimal cost if we're struggling. Of course, sometimes things change and he may want to stay but that's the risk you take.

But I disagree with your other points.

If he choses to leave via FA we will be asking for first round compensation. If the contract doesn't get it we match and force a trade. To gain him with little capital lost I would think a club would be willing to offer a sizeable enough deal.

There were other circumstances around Mitchell's low price. He was out of contract. In the words of many Swans supporters he was your 'fifth best midfielder' - while a bit disingenuous he was behind a strong contested ball winning Sydney unit including Kennedy, Parker, Hanners & Jack. Essentially, he was a young fringe player with upside. He had only properly started to cement himself in your side the year he was traded. There were also some rumours that his relationship with Horse wasn't very pleasant. Regardless, both Hawks & Sydney are two of the better trading units and we got the deal done with no fuss.

Our current situation is different. Sicily is clearly in our top 3 players. Look at his statistics in the last two years - he was ranked elite in basically every category for a defender. His 'injury history' is not substantial, apart from his ACL there's little there. In our position, we're not giving away one of the best defenders in the game and one of our best players for below average price just because of his injury and the fact we're not competing. If you think he's worth less Pick 14 you've seriously undervalued him.
 
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cryptor

Brownlow Medallist
May 11, 2008
19,231
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Thanks for that, Vando. Appreciate your perspective.

Given what you have written, if you're the Hawks list manager and I'm ours, I'll just touch base with his management/agent now and wait until next year when he's RFA and out of contract, and also when we'll finally be free of Buddy's salary. I'd suggest Sicily's worth maybe around 1000 DVI points, especially this close to free agency. Two first rounders, even with some change, seems more than overs given his temperament and injury history. Remember you only gave us pick 14 for Mitchell. That was a steal and we knew it. Sicily is not worth anywhere as much as Mitchell was coming into his prime at the end of 2016.

I wouldn't be confident you'd get a first rounder for Sicily as FA compo. You'd have to bank on him having a really excellent 2022.
The perception that Sicily is a hot head is antiquated. Hadn't been in trouble since early 2018. Has been baited relentlessly throughout 2019 and 2020 and never gave in despite rarely being looked after by the umpires. But if his "temperament" is an issue then keep walking I suggest.

As for the Mitchell price comparison. It's irrelevant. He was excess to your needs at the time and hadn't yet consistently produced at AFL level what he did after arriving at Hawthorn (admittedly he probably could have given more opportunity at the Swans). Sicily on the other hand is our best backline player and arguably our best player.

If he wants to go and the Swans want him at the end of this year then the price will be high. If you wait a year and get him through RFA then so be it, but unless it gets us first tier compo expect us to match to force a trade. We can't afford to let him go for anything less than what he is worth to us. We're that sh*t.
 

Callipygian

Team Player
May 18, 2021
5
14
AFL Club
Sydney
Our current situation is different. Sicily is clearly in our top 3 players. Look at his statistics in the last two years - he was ranked elite in basically every category for a defender. His 'injury history' is not substantial, apart from his ACL there's little there. In our position, we're not giving away one of the best defenders in the game and one of our best players for below average price just because of his injury and the fact we're not competing. If you think he's worth less Pick 14 you've seriously undervalued him.
You're probably right about Sicily's worth. Like I said, I'm not that familiar with your list or with James Sicily, which is why I'm interested to know what you think. I'm encouraged to hear you rate him so highly. But depending on how good of a leader/captain material he is, there may not be a lot of point you hanging on to him when you can get draft picks instead. While you need some senior players to put around your youth, given the way things are looking for you, a 26 year old is probably not playing in your next flag. Of course, I understand you want to get decent enough draft picks to make it worthwhile.
 

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