Who's closer to their next premiership: Carlton or Freo?

[FairKouta]

Evidence of how low Carlton have fallen. Richmond are now the big bro they bring along to help them fight it out in the playground. Hilarious. Keep going.

Oh nice u have a sense of humour.

 

[ShadeyP]

Both teams are building nicely but it is not so easy to jump into being perennial finals participants pushing for a top 4 berth .

I would expect both of these teams to be in the 9-13 bracket next season with 2022 being the season one of them make the 8 .

Which one that is , hard to tell just yet .

Hunch is Freo could really contend for a tilt at top 4 in 2025 .

 

[hk89]

Oh nice u have a sense of humour.

I'm posting in a thread with Carlton and Premiership in the title. It brings out my funny side.

 

[FairKouta]

I'm posting in a thread with Carlton and Premiership in the title. It brings out my funny side.

Quit while you’re ahead mate. It’s funny though last time I checked we had more than you. Anyway I don’t care about about how many you won this century or who your coach is. Or how amazing dingley is.

 

[HairyO]

Honestly, despite a few issues in terms of player development, I don't necessarily think it has all got to do with the cattle. Carlton does have the cattle to compete and they have shown it many times this year. Their best was up there with the finalists. However, their worst was down there with the likes of North Melbourne, Hawthorn and Essendon.

The problem, which I think separates both of these teams significantly and is indeed a huge one needing to be addressed, is Carlton's mentality. It is so fragile and weak. I mean, look at those patches when they completely shut off and allow a 5+ goal run to their opponents. It has happened 18 times under Teague.

The bar is more often than not proven to be set too low.

Carlton throughout the year haven't failed to show grit (their biggest loss is the smallest of its kind when compared to the other 17 teams), but they were only ever doing so when no pressure seemed to be on them. Whenever there is expectation, the boys crumble big time. And I can't help but feel that has been woven into the culture as it has been the case ever since I really started following their footy seasons. This is where much of my doubt lies when it comes to the club's fortunes and their means for success.

This is where I think it comes down to be more of a coaching issue. If Teague is going to be the long-term head of this playing group, he needs to surround himself with the right assistants. For example, is John Barker really the right choice for a midfield/stoppages coach?

There is no question regarding the class of the players.

Patrick Cripps is a genuine A-grader (though he was carrying injuries this year and has become a victim of his own high standards).
Sam Docherty, Sam Walsh, Jacob Weitering and Zac Williams (should he arrive at the club) are A-graders too.

Charlie Curnow & Harry McKay have the potential to be A-graders, but are a fair way off. Jack Martin too fluctuates a bit.

Ed Curnow shows signs of a B-grader, but his age and deficiencies only leave him to be a C-grader with a good 3 or 4 seasons left in him. Liam Jones too falls in this category.

As for everybody else, it is still a work in progress. It is taking a lot longer than it should, but having players out injured for the entire year isn't necessarily helping. But going into next year, we will hopefully have four big boosts.

- Charlie Curnow (should he keep fit) is a huge boost next year, not just talent-wise but for the team's structure. He helps open the ground up for McKay a little more.
- Caleb Marchbank is a highly-rated defender with a neat set of skills and a knack for the defensive contests. It's why he has received another 2 years despite not playing at all in 2020.
- People underestimate the ability of Nic Newman. He can be a very attacking-style of defender. Something which I haven't seen much of from Tom Williamson just yet. Newman also knows where the big sticks are.
- And I really like Brodie Kemp as a prospect. Grant him a little time and space and I believe he can become somebody extremely valuable and vital to the team's chances for further success.

Add Williams and POTENTIALLY Saad if both the rumours are true and he is considering the blues, then I do think Carlton's team looks pretty damn good. But as I have said, it means nothing unless the mentality of the team is fixed up. They cannot be switching on and off like they have throughout this season.

As for whether they are ahead of or behind Fremantle, nobody knows. I don't think mentality is really an issue for the dockers but rather a few young players still being a bit raw. That, and of course a few injuries.

8 x A graders? Yet couldnt even make finals?

Hawks were winning flags with zero x A graders (according to BF experts).

 

[hk89]

Anyway I don’t care about about how many you won this century or who your coach is.

You care plenty, it's why half your posts in a Carlton thread are about Hawthorn, and you're a regular poster in Hawthorn threads.

 

[FairKouta]

You care plenty, it's why half your posts in a Carlton thread are about Hawthorn, and you're a regular poster in Hawthorn threads.

Awwww ok bye

 

[sherb]

"Next premiership" to me implies that the club has already won one.

 

[sdfc]

"Next premiership" to me implies that the club has already won one.

Booo

 

[Jcpdragonx]

Freo have a better spread of young talent and are more disciplined.

Carlton rely on Cripps and their pick 1 gifts.flakey forward line, slow midfield, rucks are a long way off and apart from weiter their defenders can’t actually defend. Plus their list is old

 

[Ceehook]

do expect next year to see real tough competition for top 8 spots

I think most people would write North off because of a major rebuild

The other 7 clubs that are currently outside the top 8 have shown something during the year to give their supporters heart for next year

it might be easier for Carlton to work on consistency than Freo to fix forward 50 entries and get tall forward targets

but saying that I can see Freo being able to endure losing a few close games early and not dropping their bundle

off season trades will be crucial to both sides

now I've talked of Top 8 , thats not a premiership

I think both sides need to make the top 8 in 2021 or 2022 if they are en route to a premiership within the 6-7 years
so they can keep their current programs going and being able to attract good Free Agents


So I'd go Carlton , but could easy see them imploding if they lose crucial games early next year

 

[Slysh]

Freo are my pick

Have the best player among the two teams

More depth

Better spread of young talent

More sold on the coach having what it takes

Hopefully Pearce can get his body right because he is a gun when up and firing

 

[Coaster2012]

If McGovern is in their top 10 players I will strip nude and run around West Footscray once restrictions lift.

Hes meant to be and they are expecting him to be with that salary.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

8 x A graders? Yet couldnt even make finals?

Hawks were winning flags with zero x A graders (according to BF experts).

Where on Earth did you pull out the 8 x A-graders from?

First of all, I only listed 5 players, and even that can be questioned.
Second of all, I already discussed what the major problem for Carlton was.

Did you even bother reading it, or were you just responding carelessly to score likes?

I don't give a rats arse what "BF experts" say. Hawthorn had their share of A-graders, but they were very team-oriented. Team-oriented is always a better guarantee for success than having two or three superstars.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Carlton rely on Cripps

Didn't seem to rely on him this year.

and their pick 1 gifts.

'Gifts'? They were earnt on the back of the club playing like absolute crap.

flakey forward line

Much of this depends on the midfield. They are going to be flakey when they more often than not receive poor delivery from their teammates up the ground.

slow midfield

'Shallow' midfield to be more accurate. I wouldn't necessarily say Carlton's midfield is slow. They have a few midfielders with leg speed but just don't seem bothered to play them in the guts.

rucks are a long way off

This I can agree with.

and apart from weiter their defenders can’t actually defend.

Wrong. Defence is their strong point and is well taken care of. Jones can defend. Plowman despite his deficiencies can defend. Docherty can defend. Both Marchbank and Newman were sorely missed and can defend.

Plus their list is old

How so?

 

[Fadge]

I think most people would write North off because of a major rebuild

The other 7 clubs that are currently outside the top 8 have shown something during the year to give their supporters heart for next year

Um, we've had an 18 team competition for nearly a decade. There are 10 teams outside the top 8...

 

[Sportsmad93]

I dislike this whole who's closer to a premiership thing as if it makes that team close by being better than another team that your comparing them to.

How do we know any of these clubs are close to winning a flag at all? There's probably a good 8-10 teams that are a lot closer.

 

[Sportsmad93]

Carlton still have an issue with Betts, Murphy and both the Curnow brothers, but in saying that some of the guys coming in are very good players assuming of course that they do come in, no doubt they will get them on one of their sets of books. Their book ends though are well covered and the game style is constantly evolving and very capable of + 100 point scores, Cripps was a little busted this year and hopefully they can get more support around him to take the pressure off. Carlton lost a lot of close games to sides they should have beat and gave up too many runs of goals when momentum switched, winning is a habit, but so to is losing unfortunately.

Fremantle suffer a little with the out of mind out of sight principle, but some of their young players are quality. I guess Mundy and Fyfe have to be addressed as they cannot play forever. Their book ends are good when they are fit and are essential to release their game style more as this year they had to conjure a functioning back line capable of staying in games and did a great job. Their coach came from a Collingwood back ground so it is natural that defense is the first stop on his journey as it should be for most teams.

So in conclusion the whole "Next Premiership" argument is probably in the hands of the next generation of players for both teams, but in AFL these days things can turn quite quickly with astute trading and drafting, but there are eighteen teams thinking the same thing about their teams.

Carlton lost close games they could of won, but they also won close games they could of lost. See Essendon, Fremantle, Geelong, North and Sydney for example and some of those teams got a good lead against Carlton and blew it in the last quarter, so I guess their close wins even out with their close losses.

 

[Proper Gander]

Freo were good in 2020. A big jump on where I might have predicted. I like the new coach because he clearly has some buy-in from the team early. Plus their recruiting is already more than promising. I reckon Freo’s trajectory sees them ahead of Carlton next year

 

[btdg]

Freo were good in 2020. A big jump on where I might have predicted. I like the new coach because he clearly has some buy-in from the team early. Plus their recruiting is already more than promising. I reckon Freo’s trajectory sees them ahead of Carlton next year

Can you explain that statement?

In 2019 Freo won 9/22 (41%) of their matches and finished 13th with a % of 91.9.
In 2020 Freo won 7/17 (41%) of their games and finished 12th with a % of 93.7
Their ‘trajectory’ is... treading water?

In contrast, in 2019 Carlton won 7/22 games (32%) and finished 16th with a % of 82.5
In 2020 Carlton won 7/17 games (41%) and finished 11th with a % of 94.3
That’s a fairly clear upward trajectory, is it not?

I guess it’s the ‘vibe’ though?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Sure.

Hughes Hamling Logue
Young Pearce Ryan

Aish Fyfe Acres
Darcy Brayshaw Serong

Sturt Lobb Walters
Henry Hogan Taberner

Wilson Cerra Schultz ?

Torn on who to throw in as the question mark. Could be Valente, this years first round draft pick, or someone else.

Brave to assume McGovern and Betts will still be there for you in 2022.

If mcgovern and betts are still there in 2022 ill have to reconsider my judgement of 2020 being the worst year of my life

 

[WaywardSonSon]

This is a comparative thread with Fremantle hence what I was doing. I forgot to include jack Martin. It was a mistake. But how to fit him in.
And I agree why aren’t we playing finals. We won more quarters of footy than 14 teams this year but we’re inconsistent. This will only improve with Teague. And also the addition of Williams Curnow and an uninjured Cripps. Fremantle will most likely be sending out the same side in 2021.

The "same" side, with the only minor differences being the inclusions of Alex Pearce, Joel Hamling, Sam Sturt, Griffin Logue, Darcy Tucker and Hayden Young...

 

[Bulldog1954]

Can you explain that statement?

In 2019 Freo won 9/22 (41%) of their matches and finished 13th with a % of 91.9.
In 2020 Freo won 7/17 (41%) of their games and finished 12th with a % of 93.7
Their ‘trajectory’ is... treading water?

In contrast, in 2019 Carlton won 7/22 games (32%) and finished 16th with a % of 82.5
In 2020 Carlton won 7/17 games (41%) and finished 11th with a % of 94.3
That’s a fairly clear upward trajectory, is it not?

I guess it’s the ‘vibe’ though?

Freo did go 3-8 in the back half of 2019, whilst Carlton went 6-5. Based on that and the more experienced sides Carlton were putting out than Freo this year you would have expected Carlton to win more games than Freo.

 

[Freomaniac]

Carlton has been sh*t since 2012 we made the semis in 2011 but that was as good as that list was going to be. malthouse actually expedited our rebuild by destroying our fw line. Sos starting building the list at the end of 2015 while he has been a good trader in getting us good value his recruiting has been average barring the 2015 where he netted us mckay weitering curnow and cunningham.
It’s year 6 of the total rebuild next year anything less than finals is a total fail. Not one carlton supporter will tell you any different.

if there was one thing Malthouse did that make me scratch my head in why he did it was when he put Walker, who lead your goal kicking with 50 odd goals to the back line

 

[nurries]

[/QUOTE[/QUOTE]

Can you explain that statement?

In 2019 Freo won 9/22 (41%) of their matches and finished 13th with a % of 91.9.
In 2020 Freo won 7/17 (41%) of their games and finished 12th with a % of 93.7
Their ‘trajectory’ is... treading water?

In contrast, in 2019 Carlton won 7/22 games (32%) and finished 16th with a % of 82.5
In 2020 Carlton won 7/17 games (41%) and finished 11th with a % of 94.3
That’s a fairly clear upward trajectory, is it not?

I guess it’s the ‘vibe’ though?

played first 6 games away from home ( no other team had to do that)
Our Main midfield last year was Fyfe, Walters, Mundy, Lobb
This year it was Brayshaw 21, Cerra 21, Serong 19, Darcy 22
New coach, no chance to train in full during the year building up a new game plan.

Younger squad than last year with the same result with shed loads more improvement.

finally should of won that s**t box of a game at Optus against when the umpires pulled that last minute crap fest out Which would make us 47% and you 35%