Worst list in the AFL at present?

[Outtatym]

So Ross Lyon turning down both Carlton and Essendon because they weren't the right list for him, he just decides to take a "trash" list for the fun if it.
So, you know more about football than Ross Lyon, cool story bro.

I'd say it was more the fact he didn't have to put it any effort in the interview process that sealed the Saints gig. Did I read somewhere he set the assistants some homework of coming up with a game plan

 

[St Plugger]

Correct. Both us and north will fly past the eagles and saints by the end of 2024. Those two teams are in big trouble. Will be stuck in 10-16 range for a long time. Lists are good enough to win 8-10 games.

Like a lot of long suffering Saints supporters, we were kinda secretly jealous of those teams like Nth and Richmond locked in No Mans Land, for at least they were winning frequently and were not consistently languishing at the bottom of the ladder, like our team was. Now it seems being on the bottom and loosing a lot is good, but being a middling team with intermittent wins is poor. Where has this alternative narrative come from?

 

[Yoda_]

For the saint Kilda supporters who are disagreeing with the criticism levelled at your club. IT is very easy to see how and why no one rates your list.

Your ruck stocks are admirable led by a very under appreciated Rowan Marshall, he probably hasn't been given the kudos he deserves having been stuck behind another criminally under rated ruck of recent years in Paddy Ryder.

The on ball division is another that is admirable, Jack Steele is one of the most under rated stars of the comp, unsure why he doesn't get the plaudits of other highly fancied players in the same mould of player but here we are. Apart from Steele, Brad Crouch has been a mediocre, albeit inconsistent player fro a long time that no one thought warranted the sort of compensation he garnered when Saints brought him in. Outside these two, who is the next guys off the rank that are genuine match winners? doubt anyone would put there house on Owens or Windhager being that man, Seb Ross and Jack Billings are no spring chicken anymore (29y8mth) & 27yr, 4mth respectively), the time for blossoming is over. Time to put together 23 weeks of good to very good football. Not 1 or two games a month.


The forward line appears to be all in on Max King and that is going to be very telling in 2023 with the unfortunate injury he has incurred. Could be a blessing in disguise that Membrey, Marshall, Hayes (when he does return) etc can fill the void and kick a competitive total without MK.

The defence is another that is probably unheralded in comparison to the rest of the league. Howard seems to be made to play taller than he should, Wilkes is competitive but in a same vein as Howard. Highmore probably playing the role the other two should be playing. The smalls are ball getters and do good things, they probably could use more protection up the ground to help them out. One area of the ground that is steady without having a superstar. ps. I don't rate Jack Sinclair.

Without Ryder who seemed to be a clear cut #1 for the Saints last season and King out for a period of time, it is going to show a lot about the Saints resilience if they are to continue improving on there form from last year on top of a tougher draw.

 

[puppy_dog7]

For the saint Kilda supporters who are disagreeing with the criticism levelled at your club. IT is very easy to see how and why no one rates your list.

Your ruck stocks are admirable led by a very under appreciated Todd Marshall, he probably hasn't been given the kudos he deserves having been stuck behind another criminally under rated ruck of recent years in Paddy Ryder.

The on ball division is another that is admirable, Jack Steele is one of the most under rated stars of the comp, unsure why he doesn't get the plaudits of other highly fancied players in the same mould of player but here we are. Apart from Steele, Brad Crouch has been a mediocre, albeit inconsistent player fro a long time that no one thought warranted the sort of compensation he garnered when Saints brought him in. Outside these two, who is the next guys off the rank that are genuine match winners? doubt anyone would put there house on Owens or Windhager being that man, Seb Ross and Jack Billings are no spring chicken anymore (29y8mth) & 27yr, 4mth respectively), the time for blossoming is over. Time to put together 23 weeks of good to very good football. Not 1 or two games a month.


The forward line appears to be all in on Max King and that is going to be very telling in 2023 with the unfortunate injury he has incurred. Could be a blessing in disguise that Membrey, Marshall, Hayes (when he does return) etc can fill the void and kick a competitive total without MK.

The defence is another that is probably unheralded in comparison to the rest of the league. Howard seems to be made to play taller than he should, Wilkes is competitive but in a same vein as Howard. Highmore probably playing the role the other two should be playing. The smalls are ball getters and do good things, they probably could use more protection up the ground to help them out. One area of the ground that is steady without having a superstar. ps. I don't rate Jack Sinclair.

Without Ryder who seemed to be a clear cut #1 for the Saints last season and King out for a period of time, it is going to show a lot about the Saints resilience if they are to continue improving on there form from last year on top of a tougher draw.

You lost me at Todd Marshall… You realise he plays for Port right?

 

[Shadow89]

For the saint Kilda supporters who are disagreeing with the criticism levelled at your club. IT is very easy to see how and why no one rates your list.

Your ruck stocks are admirable led by a very under appreciated Todd Marshall, he probably hasn't been given the kudos he deserves having been stuck behind another criminally under rated ruck of recent years in Paddy Ryder.

The on ball division is another that is admirable, Jack Steele is one of the most under rated stars of the comp, unsure why he doesn't get the plaudits of other highly fancied players in the same mould of player but here we are. Apart from Steele, Brad Crouch has been a mediocre, albeit inconsistent player fro a long time that no one thought warranted the sort of compensation he garnered when Saints brought him in. Outside these two, who is the next guys off the rank that are genuine match winners? doubt anyone would put there house on Owens or Windhager being that man, Seb Ross and Jack Billings are no spring chicken anymore (29y8mth) & 27yr, 4mth respectively), the time for blossoming is over. Time to put together 23 weeks of good to very good football. Not 1 or two games a month.


The forward line appears to be all in on Max King and that is going to be very telling in 2023 with the unfortunate injury he has incurred. Could be a blessing in disguise that Membrey, Marshall, Hayes (when he does return) etc can fill the void and kick a competitive total without MK.

The defence is another that is probably unheralded in comparison to the rest of the league. Howard seems to be made to play taller than he should, Wilkes is competitive but in a same vein as Howard. Highmore probably playing the role the other two should be playing. The smalls are ball getters and do good things, they probably could use more protection up the ground to help them out. One area of the ground that is steady without having a superstar. ps. I don't rate Jack Sinclair.

Without Ryder who seemed to be a clear cut #1 for the Saints last season and King out for a period of time, it is going to show a lot about the Saints resilience if they are to continue improving on there form from last year on top of a tougher draw.

*Rowan Marshall

Not rating Sinclair seems to undermine the rest of your argument, IMO. AA and B+F last year, and had a seriously good season. Steele may have pipped him for B+F had he played all games (still think Sinclair would have been better even if Steele played all 22), but Sinclair was still one of their Top 2 players for the season, with King rounding out the Top 3.

 

[Yoda_]

You lost me at Todd Marshall… You realise he plays for Port right?

yep, my bad

He is that good I even forgot Rowan's name

 

[MickG88]

so, you think if Ross said to Catlton " I want to coach your club" they wouldn't have jumped and said yes. Same for Essendon, how much interviewing did Brad Scott do?

I'd say it was more the fact he didn't have to put it any effort in the interview process that sealed the Saints gig. Did I read somewhere he set the assistants some homework of coming up with a game plan

 

[Yoda_]

*Rowan Marshall

Not rating Sinclair seems to undermine the rest of your argument, IMO. AA and B+F last year, and had a seriously good season. Steele may have pipped him for B+F had he played all games (still think Sinclair would have been better even if Steele played all 22), but Sinclair was still one of their Top 2 players for the season, with King rounding out the Top 3.

He is another nice player, just think he gets over rated in a poor side. I understand I will get backlash for this but it feels like he gets a large chunk of the footy from full back playing on or from handball receives. I dunno, my eye test doesn't rate him as highly as others.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

yep, my bad

He is that good I even forgot Rowan's name

meh….. Saints, easy mistake

 

[MickG88]

My favourite thing about this whole Saints are irrelevant is that so many opposition supporters try and pot shot us. If we are irrelevant then why are you guys going so hard at the Saints and not GWS, Adelaide or even North.
Irrelevant would mean that our list doesn't worth even mentioning but there is several pages dedicated to slamming the Saints.

 

[Yoda_]

My favourite thing about this whole Saints are irrelevant is that so many opposition supporters try and pot shot us. If we are irrelevant then why are you guys going so hard at the Saints and not GWS, Adelaide or even North.
Irrelevant would mean that our list doesn't worth even mentioning but there is several pages dedicated to slamming the Saints.

This isn't an irrelevant list mate, this is a shit list.

Essendon would win the irrelevant list hands down. Have done so for 17 years without much looking like changing either

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

My favourite thing about this whole Saints are irrelevant is that so many opposition supporters try and pot shot us. If we are irrelevant then why are you guys going so hard at the Saints and not GWS, Adelaide or even North.
Irrelevant would mean that our list doesn't worth even mentioning but there is several pages dedicated to slamming the Saints.

What would you like to have a crack at the Crows for? Go you hardest...

Perhaps 1997?

I mentioned the Crows are in rebuild mode & we appear to be tracking the right direction... though probably a year off finals.

 

[Shadow89]

You missed Gresham . He's 25yo and clearly best 22. Probably best 5.

Sorry I thought the criteria was 25 and under - hence why he was in the under 25 list

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

I concur with a lot of the comments in this thread. West Coast have the worst list right now but I have faith in them as a club to know how to get out of the hole. There'll be some pain in the short term but they won't stay down.

St Kilda's list is on a road to nowhere. It's just an absolutely nothing list. If I was a Saints fan I'd look at that list with a combination of boredom and existential dread.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[WillHayward]

Sorry I thought the criteria was 25 and under - hence why he was in the under 25 list

Yeah ur right..sorry.
"25 and under".
He does turn 26 during this season so don't think saints can claim him as a young up and comer anymore.

 

[BigVic]

Eagles have 7 players on the wrong side of 30 plus Elliot Yeo will be 30 at season‘s end. Kelly, Ryan and Sheed are in the high 20s and not getting older. Kennedy retired last year

 

[aussierulesrules]

Without Ryder who seemed to be a clear cut #1 for the Saints last season and King out for a period of time, it is going to show a lot about the Saints resilience if they are to continue improving on there form from last year

We won 11 games last year and Ryder played in just 6 of those.

By the end of the year he was completely cooked, he really fell away badly in his last handful of games- hence him “retiring”, just weeks after saying how much he wanted to keep playing as long as he could.

And the thing about losing Paddy is that Marshall now gets to go back to playing what is by FAR his best position.

He and Paddy had a good partnership going, but the fact remains that Marshall is only serviceable up forward, whereas in the only year he had the no.1 ruck role, he came 2nd in the B&F, at just 23yo, and killed it.

He’s now 3 years stronger, fitter, more experienced and more versatile, and if he plays the whole year, he’s likely to have a vastly better/more impactful season than Ryder had last year.

He has also been badly hampered by injury the last two years, so could explode if he’s finally back to full fitness, and injury free.

on top of a tougher draw.

I sincerely hope you’re not suggesting that we have a tougher draw this year than last year!?

We’ve had literally the hardest draw in the comp each of the last two years (including last year playing both grand finalists twice, 4 of the top 6 twice, playing interstate/in Geelong against top 6 teams Geelong, Sydney, Brisbane and Fremantle, not playing any of the bottom 5 twice, and selling a home game to Cairns!), whereas this year we have what looks to be an unquestionably easier draw.

Including playing potential bottom two teams North and Hawthorn twice each, having two extra games at Marvel, and one less in Geelong/interstate (despite there being a round where every team plays in SA, and there being an extra round).

So last year we won 11 games, off the hardest draw, and this year we have an almost certainly much easier one.

Simple probability suggests we could be a 13 win team without even having to improve one bit (all things being equal).

And remember it was only half a season ago that were 8-3, and had just beaten Geelong (the last team to do so).

 

[MickG88]

What would you like to have a crack at the Crows for? Go you hardest...

Perhaps 1997?

I mentioned the Crows are in rebuild mode & we appear to be tracking the right direction... though probably a year off finals.

Not my point, certain supporters claim the Saints are irrelevant but still go hard at us. If we were irrelevant than we would even get a mention.

I think the Crows are tracking nicely, would like to see what the up and coming midfield looks like but that will happen.
Probably need another defender, A player liie Ben Mckay would be a guy that the Crows should go for.

 

[Rich01]

Just realised the Saints only beat 2 top 8 sides last year. They had a soft draw in the first half of the season and couldn’t get it done against better sides toward the back end.

Can see them middling out for a couple of years before needing to rebuild.

I wonder what strategy Ross has in place.

 

[dazzledavey36]

My favourite thing about this whole Saints are irrelevant is that so many opposition supporters try and pot shot us. If we are irrelevant then why are you guys going so hard at the Saints and not GWS, Adelaide or even North.
Irrelevant would mean that our list doesn't worth even mentioning but there is several pages dedicated to slamming the Saints.

How long have you got?

 

[dazzledavey36]

Just realised the Saints only beat 2 top 8 sides last year. They had a soft draw in the first half of the season and couldn’t get it done against better sides toward the back end.

Can see them middling out for a couple of years before needing to rebuild.

I wonder what strategy Ross has in place.

 

[BrutThough]

Just realised the Saints only beat 2 top 8 sides last year. They had a soft draw in the first half of the season and couldn’t get it done against better sides toward the back end.

Can see them middling out for a couple of years before needing to rebuild.

I wonder what strategy Ross has in place.

Three actually - Geelong, Fremantle and Richmond.

For comparison, your Tigers also beat 3 - Dogs, Collingwood and Brisbane. WB in 8th also beat 3 top 8 sides and Carlton in 9th beat 4.

So St Kilda's performance against top 8 sides was on par with the teams in that middle 6 bracket. It doesn't really track to say it is the worst list in the comp while it is performing to a similar level as many highly rated lists.

What this does illustrate is the impact fixture difficultly and location of games can have for determining the last few spots on the 8. St Kilda had 4 double ups against top 6 sides and all 5 of the double ups were played at legitimate away grounds. By comparison, Richmond didn't play any double ups against top 8 sides and 3/5 double ups were played at your home venue. Both teams finished in the middle 6 bracket yet ended up on completely different ends of the fixture difficulty spectrum.

 

[Mofra]

Let's quickly acknowledge the real worst list in the AFL - pretty much every player's Spotify.
We've had teams fighting over Freed from Desire FFS.

 

[lewdogs]

Three actually - Geelong, Fremantle and Richmond.

For comparison, your Tigers also beat 3 - Dogs, Collingwood and Brisbane. WB in 8th also beat 3 top 8 sides and Carlton in 9th beat 4.

So St Kilda's performance against top 8 sides was on par with the teams in that middle 6 bracket. It doesn't really track to say it is the worst list in the comp while it is performing to a similar level as many highly rated lists.

What this does illustrate is the impact fixture difficultly and location of games can have for determining the last few spots on the 8. St Kilda had 4 double ups against top 6 sides and all 5 of the double ups were played at legitimate away grounds. By comparison, Richmond didn't play any double ups against top 8 sides and 3/5 double ups were played at your home venue. Both teams finished in the middle 6 bracket yet ended up on completely different ends of the fixture difficulty spectrum.

In the Richo years we never beat top sides. Over the past three years we have beaten a lot of the best sides, but our issue has been consistency.

It will be interesting to see if Ross can get some more consistency out of the list. But to suggest we have the worst list in the comp is very over the top.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I dont know about worst list, but most overrated goes by a country mile to Hawthorn. You can talk all you want about potential, future premiership side, outstanding junior talent all you want but what counts is on the scoreboard, and this Hawks team scoreboard say that they have done jack-s**t. If potential meant anything, Gold Coast and GWS would be going for their sixth premiership between them this year. Same goes for their coach - has a gilded tongue but has put jack-s**t on the scoreboard. At least the likes of West Coast, North, Essendon, even St Kilda are somewhat less deluded about their respective teams.

Just catching up on this thread but I find this post really strange.

Last off season, Hawthorn were hot favorites on here for the spoon and we were told it was the worst list in the comp as it was described as both old and shit. I was also repeatedly informed that I was delusional, laugh emojis, etc. when I suggested that I didn't think North would 'fly past us' and win twice as many games as us in 2022. Turns out we won 8 games, 4x as many as North and were never bottom 4.

This year, we are hot favourites for the spoon again. We have over 100 more votes for the spoon than any other club.

In this very thread on the worst list, Hawthorn are one of 2 teams considered significantly worse than the rest.

In short, we are the least rated (by a considerable margin) team in the comp, yet we are "most overrated by a country mile" - that doesn't make any sense.

(I haven't even seen the most optimistic Hawthorn supporters saying we will be a good team next year, or that we will play finals or that we are about to win a flag, etc. The only thing I have seen is argument about whether we will win the spoon next year or not. I personally think it is possible but people forget we were 6 wins and 35% clear of the spoon last year which is a big gap to make up in an off season. Our gap to the top 6 or 7 was less than our gap to the spoon, Hell, Carlton (who missed finals) had a smaller gap to Geelong (who finished 2 wins a significant % clear on top) than we had to the spoon. Still possible of course but I think there are other teams more likely)