Worst list in the AFL at present?

[Strapping Young Lad]

Pedlar only played 1 game last year as a small forward in round 2, So I genuinely have no idea what stats you're looking at, He would be a best 22 lock if his body hadn't let him down since arriving at the club, He offers a real point of difference in our midfield and everyone is excited to what he has displayed when fit

Schoenberg stagnated this year but that is mostly from off field drama, We already know what he can offer

Berry reminds me a bit of Newcombe, Albeit probably a year behind in development and age but similar players who can reach similar heights, Is Newcombe star quality to you?

I was going off memory with Pedlar, but he ‘played’ 3 games. Got on the ground only once.

 

[Hook461123]

I think North currently have the worst list. We lost half our players last year and had our worst season in history and they still finished below us.

It will be an interesting watch between the Hawks and Eagles to see who bounces back first. Hawks a little bit ahead at the moment but the Eagles kept their senior players to teach and mentor the youf whereas Hawks decided to go full rebuild mode.
Eagles looking to transition the list but with a gap of talent in the middle age bracket. Some senior champions and an injection of youth.
Hawthorn trying to bring through a group of players in the same age bracket to learn to play together but without any real stars (yet).

 

[CrowToon]

Bias? Rent free?

Everyone’s laying into the Saints, Hawks, Eagles and North yet as it stands the Crows have barely been mentioned and I think there's some big question marks over their list.

Crows are going to rely heavily on Rankine, Rachele, Thilthorpe and Forgarty to lift them in the coming years once Walker, Laird and Smith disappear, because you’ve not got the output required from a bevy of 1st round picks(McAsey, Jones, Milera, Pedlar?), and have a bunch of youngsters that continue to get games, but need to step up if they're going to make it(Hately, McHenry, Hamill, Cook, Hinge, Murphy, Schoenberg).

News just in, team will have to rely on other players once certain players retire.

McAsey is gone. Milera is a shadow since his injury, Jones admittedly has been underwhelming but looks to have found a serviceable role and Pedlar has been given pretty limited opportunities but this may be his year. Who knows.

But what really shows you don't actually watch the Crows is the next part. Hately was a freebie pick and won't make it but he shouldn't be headlining the 'need them to step up or else' list. Hamill can't get on the field without getting injured in some way but what the hell? Murphy and Hinge? Role players at best.

As another poster mentioned it was Soligo and Berry who stole the show this year and it was Schoenberg the previous year. These are the players we are hoping to rally behind but instead you want to pin our hopes on Hately, Murphy and Hinge? Oh boy.

Besides, Murphy and Hinge are like 24 and Dawson, whom you haven't mentioned at all is just a few months older but he doesn't suit your argument. Nevertheless I wouldn't be calling them youngsters to pin the hopes on for the future.


im the first to admit the drafting hasn't been spot on with certain picks but we've now spent 3 years pumping games into players and still have a bit of experience to complement the natural improvement so the point being while I don't claim to be a top 12 side, I think we comfortably better than 2 or 3 other sides.

So yeah, if you don't want to be accused of bias then do the required homework to at least talk about the most relevant players, not just the ones you remember hearing something about 2 years ago.

 

[Shueygod]

I gave you a specific player with 20/21 on a one year deal and you complained. Sheppard is very comparable, he was AA 12 months prior and younger than Nic Nat but got a 1 year deal. It saved you an extra 12 month payout. Salary cap can be banked so anything you save now will allow you to roll into the next period of contending.

He was not a top 10 player in 2021. He made the bench of the AA team and was one of the more polarising decisions. He then declined massively in 2022 and played 8 games. That should devalue his contract due to recent output, not lock in a longer deal.

Fyfe has won 2 Brownlows and is a year younger than NN. If his 2022 season is anything like his last 2 seasons I would expect 1 year deals only from now on.

Sheppard’s concussion concerns were well known hence the 1 year deal.

He was only a polarising decision for idiots, was the most impactful clearance player in the competition. One injury impacted year after consecutive AA’s should result in one year deals? Seems reactionary.

Fyfes recent output would be closer to a WAFL player than Naitanui despite him being a year younger.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

That would be the gameplan that Ratten implemented that produced that stat. Slowing down the play to possess the ball and letting defenses set up behind the ball, only very good teams can do that and not for long.
The game is fast paced and if you play it slow, you get burnt.

Coaches adapt game plans to their list, Ratten played that way because its the cards dealt to him.

He knew that playing fast football with your forwards would lead to you getting burnt more on counter than generate with offence.

I expect Lyon to do similar.

 

[ChristianBoy]

Coaches adapt game plans to their list, Ratten played that way because its the cards dealt to him.

He knew that playing fast football with your forwards would lead to you getting burnt more on counter than generate with offence.

I expect Lyon to do similar.

You mean like 2020 when Ratten had them playing a frantic over the back style that saw them finish 5th.

Butler had his best season.

 

[MickG88]

Coaches adapt game plans to their list, Ratten played that way because its the cards dealt to him.

He knew that playing fast football with your forwards would lead to you getting burnt more on counter than generate with offence.

I expect Lyon to do similar.

Are you smoking crack? Why would a good coach not want a turnover in the forward 50 instead of the defensive 50?
That's just bad coaching and has nothing to do with personnel.

Also explain 2020, when we played fast, quick over out the back footy? What changed from 2020 to 2022? Personnel was pretty much the same.

 

[WillHayward]

They are not random. Same starting midfield as last season if you were watching us. We are rebuilding so of course most are young!

This year Rankine added to the mix & Sloane likely to play through too.

Pedlar will be our most important midfielder. You will soon be talking about him as he is a real point of difference.

Taylor hasn't played a single game amd Pedlar just 5

Not saying they won't be good medium and long term.

Just way too early to be banking on them.

 

[WillHayward]

Minor compensation?????

Heeney Mills Blakey are minor??

We had to use high picks on em.

People make out they were free.

One of the biggest myths on bigfooty that keeps going round and round and round.

Plenty of ithreads on the swans academy on bigfooty already.

Can we stay on topic here..

Who has the shittest list and why?

 

[WillHayward]

Any team that points to freshly drafted players yet to play a game or finish a pre season as reasons they'll improve are in a bit of trouble

This

Then they harangue you for not knowing the player and being ignorant.

We don't know the player cos he's never fricking played a single game.

 

[WillHayward]

I was going off memory with Pedlar, but he ‘played’ 3 games. Got on the ground only once.

Think Mark Ricciuto had a love child with Andrew McLeod.

Ladies and Gentlemen. I give you Luke Pedlar.

 

[Psicosis]

PSA: Saints more votes then North

 

[WillHayward]

Pick Eagles for the flag they win the spoon.
Pick em for the spoon and they win the flag.

Definitely the most unpredictable.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Are you smoking crack? Why would a good coach not want a turnover in the forward 50 instead of the defensive 50?
That's just bad coaching and has nothing to do with personnel.

Also explain 2020, when we played fast, quick over out the back footy? What changed from 2020 to 2022? Personnel was pretty much the same.

That has literally been Geelongs game plan for years. Slow play so you can maintain structure behind the ball.

Last year we gave up more turnover goals than nearly anyone and all of it was from forward half turnover and being burnt on transition. Most of the time it ended up with oppoisiton getting extra numbers out the back and strolling into open goal. So yes its better to turn it over in defense with numbers there to set up and zone space, than turn it over further up the field with more open space for oppostion to work through. Especially if you dont have athletic mids and defenders that can track forwards on counter.

2020 is absolutely an anamoly season. Short quarters mean that endurance wasnt as relevant and half the clubs dysfunctioned in the hubs. Not indictactive of anything beyond it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

News just in, team will have to rely on other players once certain players retire.

Isn't this exactly what other clubs are being judged on, but you're offended that the same point might be made about the Crows?

McAsey is gone. Milera is a shadow since his injury, Jones admittedly has been underwhelming but looks to have found a serviceable role and Pedlar has been given pretty limited opportunities but this may be his year. Who knows.

Right, so you agree that there's a chunk of players who've not met expectation or have proven little.

But what really shows you don't actually watch the Crows is the next part. Hately was a freebie pick and won't make it but he shouldn't be headlining the 'need them to step up or else' list. Hamill can't get on the field without getting injured in some way but what the hell? Murphy and Hinge? Role players at best.

As another poster mentioned it was Soligo and Berry who stole the show this year and it was Schoenberg the previous year. These are the players we are hoping to rally behind but instead you want to pin our hopes on Hately, Murphy and Hinge? Oh boy.

Besides, Murphy and Hinge are like 24 and Dawson, whom you haven't mentioned at all is just a few months older but he doesn't suit your argument. Nevertheless I wouldn't be calling them youngsters to pin the hopes on for the future.

Freebie pick or not, Hately(11), Murphy(17), Hamill(13) and Hinge(17) all played enough football in 2022 to suggest that the coach wants to give them opportunities, but if they're not going to cut it then that's just another setback. Pin your hopes on them or not, I don't care.

I'm the first to admit the drafting hasn't been spot on with certain picks but we've now spent 3 years pumping games into players and still have a bit of experience to complement the natural improvement so the point being while I don't claim to be a top 12 side, I think we comfortably better than 2 or 3 other sides.

So yeah, if you don't want to be accused of bias then do the required homework to at least talk about the most relevant players, not just the ones you remember hearing something about 2 years ago.

You clearly don't understand the meaning of the word bias, which is ironic, as I'm not sure how you could be so confident that you're "comfortably better than 2 or 3 other sides" without it.

 

[austinnn]

Surely the worst list in AFL history is that of the poor Coaches who tried to turn North around before having their careers ende in tatterd
Make space on it for Clarko.

Gave you a like for the Olde English.

 

[austinnn]

I think we can finish anywhere from 6th to 12th this year but if it was a single spot, I would be looking at 7th with some luck.

I'd say 8-14 is most likely from a biased perspective. It'll be an inconsistent season and that's fine by me as long as the team shows signs of a workable and competitive plan in the moments and win based on the success on the system, rather than individual brilliance of individuals like we did in 2022.

If the Saints make the finals in 2023, I'll be extatic, but really, it's the 2024-28 period that I'm most excited about. Not convinced our list is as bad as most outsiders here reckon, but we'll see. Definitely a work in progress.

One thing I can assure most people here about is that St Kilda's poor performance in recent seasons is indicative more of substandard coaching and leadership and we will see a vastly different Saints outfit in 2023.

 

[ChristianBoy]

We had to use high picks on em.

People make out they were free.

One of the biggest myths on bigfooty that keeps going round and round and round.

Plenty of ithreads on the swans academy on bigfooty already.

Can we stay on topic here..

Who has the shittest list and why?

Finishing 2nd and getting Heeney is a gift.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Channel 7 commentary team.

The "reserve" commentators I've spoken to have similar thoughts on c7 commentary. One of them that I met at the hawks aflw bnf (in a hit of inebriation) said BT must have photos of the c7 directors

 

[WillHayward]

Finishing 2nd and getting Heeney is a gift.

Windhager at 47 for your boys is a much bigger gift. Academy for Melb clubs is an absolute joke.

Also nice work derailing thread.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Isn't this exactly what other clubs are being judged on, but you're offended that the same point might be made about the Crows?


Right, so you agree that there's a chunk of players who've not met expectation or have proven little.


Freebie pick or not, Hately(11), Murphy(17), Hamill(13) and Hinge(17) all played enough football in 2022 to suggest that the coach wants to give them opportunities, but if they're not going to cut it then that's just another setback. Pin your hopes on them or not, I don't care.


You clearly don't understand the meaning of the word bias, which is ironic, as I'm not sure how you could be so confident that you're "comfortably better than 2 or 3 other sides" without it.

You really shouldn't be accusing other posters of bias, given you are the most one-eyed Hawks supporter by a long margin.

According to you the loss of Gunston, O'Meara, Mitchell & McEvoy won't impact on the Hawks as they weren't major contributors.... & won't be a problem having the most inexperienced list by a long margin.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Windhager at 47 for your boys is a much bigger gift. Academy for Melb clubs is an absolute joke.

Also nice work derailing thread.

Anyone could have taken Windhager before 20 if he was such a steal

You get to match Academy kids inside the first round, really shouldn't be complaining

 

[CrowToon]

Isn't this exactly what other clubs are being judged on, but you're offended that the same point might be made about the Crows?


Right, so you agree that there's a chunk of players who've not met expectation or have proven little.


Freebie pick or not, Hately(11), Murphy(17), Hamill(13) and Hinge(17) all played enough football in 2022 to suggest that the coach wants to give them opportunities, but if they're not going to cut it then that's just another setback. Pin your hopes on them or not, I don't care.


You clearly don't understand the meaning of the word bias, which is ironic, as I'm not sure how you could be so confident that you're "comfortably better than 2 or 3 other sides" without it.

I'm not mad at all. I just think it's funny that you are making the most obvious point in history that younger players will have to step up in the absence of retirements (which haven't happened yet). But again, our younger players now have a couple of seasons in them and we cut most of our experience a couple of years ago hence our age profile so the loss of those older players should be mitigated by that invested growth. That is different to some other clubs who are wholly relying on that youth with much fewer older players (Hawthorn) or very average ones (North).

I absolutely agree there are some who have yet to break out or not become stars (not to say they won't become handy role players which EVERY premiership side needs a few of). You realise that not every selection comes good right? Weird point to make and it is still too early to call the careers of several of them.

However unlike some people on here you won't find me lauding every young player as a future star.

I do think we are comfortably better than at least a couple of sides given the games we are putting into some promising youth who performed well in some close games last year, a couple of shrewd moves to trade players in and a few senior players who can contribute strongly. That isn't necessarily bias I wouldn't have thought, at least not unrealistically so because I don't have us rising out of the bottim six.

My main point is that the selection of players you used and the comments about them demonstrated you don't watch them or have bothered to read into them beyond perhaps some stats? It's just weird to call out a team and then not have the actual knowledge to properly engage in the debate. There is plenty to shred from the Crows but calling out some kids who are not in our most promising few or plagued injury ain't it, pal.

But hey, you just keep deflecting to save face.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You really shouldn't be accusing other posters of bias, given you are the most one-eyed Hawks supporter by a long margin.

According to you the loss of Gunston, O'Meara, Mitchell & McEvoy won't impact on the Hawks as they weren't major contributors.... & won't be a problem having the most inexperienced list by a long margin.

1. I was the one accused of bias for even mentioning the Crows in this thread.
2. I have never made any claims about those players not being major contributors or that we won’t have any problems.
3. You get salty and LOL at every post made about the Crows, and add nothing to the discussion at all.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

1. I was the one accused of bias for even mentioning the Crows in this thread.
2. I have never made any claims about those players not being major contributors or that we won’t have any problems.
3. You get salty and LOL at every post made about the Crows, and add nothing to the discussion at all.

Your posting on the Crows adds nothing to the discussion as you have demonstrated time after time you have nfi about our players.

You raised why isn't anyone mentioning the Crows as a diversionary tactic as many were discussing the Hawks.

Why? Because they shed so much experience, they are now by far the most inexperienced team like the Crows were as we started the rebuild a few years ago.

You keep mentioning the experienced players weren't being relied upon, but you undervalue their importance including showing the way for a rebuilding side. Mitchell has cut hard to hopefully speed up his rebuild. Imo,you will be in for a reality check this year.