Traded James Aish [traded to Collingwood for #26 and St Kilda's 2016 second round pick]

[Sauras]

yes and our recruiter said last season once we've made an offer to a player we feel it is our obligation to ensure we get them so they aren't left out in the dark.

Such a family club down at pie land!

I'm mostly looking forward to Balmes ultimatum so the Lions can sit back and laugh at how he thinks his club can just walk over everyone else. Come on Balmy what will it be?

 

[boxy99]

People are forgetting we don't loose out of this! If Brisbane decide to trade you will get well compensated if you don't you loose

 

[12kilos]

As someone completely independent, I understand exactly what Brisbane are trying to do. They are making a statement. They are saying to all future players that they can't just walk out on the club and go to another. If this was an isolated example I would agree with you. However, Brisbane are haemorrhaging players and have to draw a line in the sand to say this must stop. Unfortunately for Aish, he is the person where the buck stops.

I could understand your comments especially a Richmond supporter your still bitter over the Treloar deal. How many times did your club have to get rejected! To get the picture.
At the end of the day it does not make buisiness of football sence for the lions to let him walk.
Collingwood would loose yes but the biggest loosers would be Brisbane.
Whatever Mathews says, What kind of a message are you sending to potential draft prospects? Most likely are very negative and toxic one!
The lions need to cut there losses , and bank on keeping there youngsters from now on.
I think your sending a very negative message to any potential draft prospects or potential new recruits.
They need to trade Aish if it happens that they get a better offer for him and he agrees good on Brisbane.

 

[JasRulz63]

Not that I've seen, which is why I was at pains to put the word 'rumoured' in my sentence.
It's certainly very plausible though. Ox is out of contract, and a Qld boy who's just had somewhat of a breakout year. I don't think anyone would be shocked if he announced he wanted to go to the Lions.

Fair enough, just making sure I wasn't missing something. I guess it's a rumour because it's so plausible.

From what I've seen of Oxley, he's got good skills and can read the play well to take intercept marks. Not sure he's quick enough to play the position he's best at though.

 

[Sauras]

People are forgetting we don't loose out of this! If Brisbane decide to trade you will get well compensated if you don't you loose

Well offer something reasonable so we will be well compensated.

 

[nahnah]

Such a family club down at pie land!

I'm mostly looking forward to Balmes ultimatum so the Lions can sit back and laugh at how he thinks his club can just walk over everyone else. Come on Balmy what will it be?

once again yawn, if you want to get all tacky like that... he leaves brisbane for nothing or he gets to pies. If thats not walking all over I'm not sure what is tbh. Pick 7 in a strong draft gone because Balme and his pals convinced aish to nominate us... I'm failing to see the part where its good for brisbane

 

[Apex36]

Such a family club down at pie land!

I'm mostly looking forward to Balmes ultimatum so the Lions can sit back and laugh at how he thinks his club can just walk over everyone else. Come on Balmy what will it be?

Why does every Lions supporter lump Balme with the whole ultimatum thing? That was made by Pert. Balme didn't rejoin Collingwood last year until after the trade period in November.

 

[dlanod]

Don't recall that. Got a link?

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/2014-09-24/statement-dayne-beams

Not quite as strident as Leigh, but the sentiment was the same.

EFA.

I'm curious between yourself, BRAB, dlanod and TBD (when not s**t stirring) I feel like I'm most likely to get a rational response to this question.

Would you feel that the club were justified in their stance were he to get through to Collingwood via the ND?

To pre-empt the question of how we'll get that pick let Collingwood worry about that because that's where their energies will be spent. I'm moreso interested in how a Ross Lyon stance will be accepted in the washup.

I'm also acutely aware that this isn't an Aish/ Collingwood issue, but one of player retention I just have doubts on the benefits of this move aiding player retention.

Yep, I'm still fine with the stance if that eventuates.

The issue I will have with the stance is if Collingwood comes forward with a good offer (not 2nd rounder + Oxley/Seedsman) - maybe two high second rounders, maybe better - and we ultimately still choose to send Aish to the draft. I think that's shortsighted. I'm fine with the stance currently and if Collingwood doesn't come to the party I'm definitely fine with putting him in the draft, at which point where he lands is where he lands. If Collingwood gets him, well done to them and him on scaring everyone else off.

If (and this is truly a long shot) nothing gets done and Aish ends up re-signing with Brisbane I'll be hailing them as geniuses and men of the highest order. But yeah... doubt that one eventuates.

I dont get the Collingwoods fans massive overrating of Seedsman. He ISNT the second coming.

Seedsman is heading to GC. We're safe from him. No more nightmares.

Have you seen your team mate, they would all finish top 10 in Brisbanes best and fairest.

Banter aside, Oxley would easily be best 22 for Brisbane.

Don't be stupid.

He'd tie for first.

Get the banter right!

 

[Giant Pete]

I could understand your comments especially a Richmond supporter your still bitter over the Treloar deal. How many times did your club have to get rejected! To get the picture.
At the end of the day it does not make buisiness of football sence for the lions to let him walk.
Collingwood would loose yes but the biggest loosers would be Brisbane.
Whatever Mathews says, What kind of a message are you sending to potential draft prospects? Most likely are very negative and toxic one!
The lions need to cut there losses , and bank on keeping there youngsters from now on.
I think your sending a very negative message to any potential draft prospects or potential new recruits.
They need to trade Aish if it happens that they get a better offer for him and he agrees good on Brisbane.

They aren't sending a negative message. If they don't do this the message that they are sending is, "come to our club for two years and then head off again". As much as Vic clubs don't like it, I think they are spot on to do this. It works out far better for them in the long run.

 

[Apex36]

Well offer something reasonable so we will be well compensated.

Maybe you should wait until the trade period begins until you start moaning about being low balled rather than acting like random Big Footy posters are Collingwoods list managers.

 

[carnthemlions]

People are forgetting we don't loose out of this! If Brisbane decide to trade you will get well compensated if you don't you loose

I could understand your comments especially a Richmond supporter your still bitter over the Treloar deal. How many times did your club have to get rejected! To get the picture.
At the end of the day it does not make buisiness of football sence for the lions to let him walk.
Collingwood would loose yes but the biggest loosers would be Brisbane.
Whatever Mathews says, What kind of a message are you sending to potential draft prospects? Most likely are very negative and toxic one!
The lions need to cut there losses , and bank on keeping there youngsters from now on.
I think your sending a very negative message to any potential draft prospects or potential new recruits.
They need to trade Aish if it happens that they get a better offer for him and he agrees good on Brisbane.

Finally, some real sense being made in this thread. Well done guys

 

[Apex36]

They aren't sending a negative message. If they don't do this the message that they are sending is, "come to our club for two years and then head off again". As much as Vic clubs don't like it, I think they are spot on to do this. It works out far better for them in the long run.

The theory seems sound, but in reality might not really work. Port Adelaide certainly still had players walking out after Stevens was sent to the draft.

 

[loki04]

They aren't sending a negative message. If they don't do this the message that they are sending is, "come to our club for two years and then head off again". As much as Vic clubs don't like it, I think they are spot on to do this. It works out far better for them in the long run.

That has never proven to be true though has it.

Port did it then the very next 2 years lost reasonable players who asked to be traded and then another 2 years after that.

Pies have been losing a few players over last 5 years to maybe we should send Freeman Seedsman Oxley to teh draft too?

Or maybe we should of sent Beams to the draft? We didn't and thank goodness as it would of been cutting our nose off to spite our face and lost good players doing so.

 

[nahnah]

keep it Aish related or ill continue to delete posts, thanks.
Apex36 Beng Sauras

 

[iBeng]

Sence and fact.

Sence? That doesnt make any sense.

 

[Scodog10]

I would be pissed if Aish made it through to the pies 2nd round pick (26?) in the ND. It would make the Lions hard stance look stupid. I doubt that would happen. People bring up ball a lot but forget to remember he was nearing the end of his career and looked awful at the saints (not to say he was a bad player at the Pies/quite the opposite). Aish would have a heap of currency in the ND, and especially with the crows at pick 13 who would back themselves to keep Aish happy back in his home town

He won't get to 26 Collingwood will need to trade up if they want him. The Crows are trading Dangerfield so our first pick in the ND will need to be before 13 for that avenue to work because the Crows may pass on him once, but not twice (even then with Roo running the FD it'll probably need to be before 9).

Still I struggle atm to see how the Pies can put up an adequate deal knowing they will need a big deal to get Treloar in... This could just get messy with the Lions either sticking to the "No trade" stance or asking for a 1st round pick (10-15?), and then the Pies arguing a player should get to where they want to go despite potentially not having much to offer on the trade table

Collingwood can find fair value for him, IMO, though it hinges on three points:

1. At what point in the trade period they can find it.

2. The lengths they're prepared to go to in order to get it, and most crucially.

3. Whether Brisbane will even come to the table once they have it (if it's not to late as per point 1).

My understanding is that at this stage hell will freeze over before he's traded and despite the potential ramifications for the AFL they'll back Brisbane in on that stance so Collingwood are highly unlikely to take the "he should get to where he wants" path.

My feel is the starting point for Collingwood to get that earlier pick will be to offer 2 second round picks and Seedsman to either GC (for Port's first) or Sydney to move up the order. It'll be a test of wills that's for sure I just won't be holding my breath on any of the three parties blinking.

The stuff I removed from your post I agreed with so there wasn't much point in commenting on it and thanks for the feedback!

 

[Rankor]

Yes port did it and had other players request a trade but Stevens going to the draft had a Big positive.

The next clubs to want players traded fairly unlike what Collingwood were offering for nick.

Brisbane need to do the same if they want a decent return on players. It's not about scaring players into staying.

 

[12kilos]

They aren't sending a negative message. If they don't do this the message that they are sending is, "come to our club for two years and then head off again". As much as Vic clubs don't like it, I think they are spot on to do this. It works out far better for them in the long run.

Why doesn't your club do the same with Treloar? Or Boyd and Macarthy for that matter?
In the long run it only work out well for Carlton only.
When a 17 year old draftee has to go to the other side of Australia there is always a risk.
They want to know in a worse case scenario there is a way out?
If i was a 17 year old getting interviewed by the Lions, i would tell them i am not interested.
Considering if i am out of contract i know they will send me in the PSD.
That is where Brisbane have to back themselves in retaining players from now on.

 

[Scodog10]

Yep, I'm still fine with the stance if that eventuates.

The issue I will have with the stance is if Collingwood comes forward with a good offer (not 2nd rounder + Oxley/Seedsman) - maybe two high second rounders, maybe better - and we ultimately still choose to send Aish to the draft. I think that's shortsighted. I'm fine with the stance currently and if Collingwood doesn't come to the party I'm definitely fine with putting him in the draft, at which point where he lands is where he lands. If Collingwood gets him, well done to them and him on scaring everyone else off.

If (and this is truly a long shot) nothing gets done and Aish ends up re-signing with Brisbane I'll be hailing them as geniuses and men of the highest order. But yeah... doubt that one eventuates.

Thanks for the feedback I think my post to Baloney will cover a lot of your comments.

On a side note I'm going to get in early on this one. I hope for your clubs sake they aren't sniffing around Oxley in a sideways move...

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I could understand your comments especially a Richmond supporter your still bitter over the Treloar deal. How many times did your club have to get rejected! To get the picture.
At the end of the day it does not make buisiness of football sence for the lions to let him walk.
Collingwood would loose yes but the biggest loosers would be Brisbane.
Whatever Mathews says, What kind of a message are you sending to potential draft prospects? Most likely are very negative and toxic one!
The lions need to cut there losses , and bank on keeping there youngsters from now on.
I think your sending a very negative message to any potential draft prospects or potential new recruits.
They need to trade Aish if it happens that they get a better offer for him and he agrees good on Brisbane.

A very immature response to my post. I can assure you my comments have NOTHING to do with the Treloar deal. You might be that shallow to be bitter, but I'm not.

The business of football has never experienced the exodus of players that Brisbane are experiencing over the last few years. As such, there is no historical precedent that you can use to show what works and what doesn't. What we do know is that if Brisbane do give in, it doesn't help them in the long run. So what if he goes to the draft? They lose a pick which is probably a second rounder in a weak draft, as Collingwood need their first rounder for Treloar. Ok, that is bad for the club, but it sends a clear message out to players who have only played two years in a club that they cannot dictate terms to the club that gave them a start and still haven't got anywhere near the best out of their investment.

 

[Babylove]

It's funny because I can see a number of options that could see the Lions getting adequate compo. With Freeman and Seedsman definitely gone and Oxley & Kennedy potentially gone, probably for second rounders we are likely to end up with 4-6 second rounders over the next two years depending on the Treloar deal. A couple of scenarios I came up with are:

(NB for the purposes of this example I am going to assume that one of the round 2 draft picks we get is St Kildas at Pick 23. This is obviously just to give ball park points figures only, and I am asuming that Oxley is leaving given he hasn't yet re-signed and we are now two days from the trade period).

1. 2 x second rounders + Oxley - Believe it or not this actually adds up to being the best value for the Lions. Picks 23 and 26 add up to 1544 points which can assist with academy selections and would also be a ball park value for Bell and Casbault who the Lions are rumoured to be targeting.

2. It is possible that the Pies could upgrade two of their second rounds for a first round selection though it would almost certainly be a mid to late first round. The most likely candidate is Sydney given their need for points for Mills and possibly Dunkley. As I mentioned picks 23 and 26 is worth 1544 points, pick 15 (I think this is the Swans pick) is worth 1112 points. It would be worth 400 points for the Swans to do that deal which may be enticing for them. Potentially you could then partner Pick 15 with Oxley if Oxley is wanting a trade.

3. It is possible that the Pies could retain the ability to trade it's 2016 round 1 selection depending on the Treloar trade. One of the rumoured deals is Pick 7 + 2016 round two and if this is the case, it's possible we could trade one of our wantaway players for a 2016 round two pick instead of 2015, thus retaining our ability to trade 2016 round 1. However I would say this scenario is a long shot given that the Treloar trade is likely our first priority and Aish our second. The only way Seedsman/Freeman/Oxley/Kennedy get done first IMO is if the compo for them is needed for Treloar or Aish.

 

[Babylove]

Yes port did it and had other players request a trade but Stevens going to the draft had a Big positive.

The next clubs to want players traded fairly unlike what Collingwood were offering for nick.

Brisbane need to do the same if they want a decent return on players. It's not about scaring players into staying.

Yes but didn't Port wait and see what the Pies were offering before declaring that they were sending Nick to the draft? The Lions have pretty much said that it doesn't matter what is offered they aren't trading him and that it is to send a message to new recruits, not other clubs, that they are not going to be easy to leave. Now if this is a negotiating tactic stance then that is fine, but if Collingwood put forward a fair offer and it is rejected because of principle then surely it only hurts Brisbane and sends a bad message to potential recruits regarding the culture of the club that they have to have a lock the door player retention strategy.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

good question... TBH yesterday I was like "@#$% Yeah" in response to the Lions hardline stance. And although I still understand why they have that stance I think we should find a deal. Whether that is with the Pies or not

I would be pissed if Aish made it through to the pies 2nd round pick (26?) in the ND. It would make the Lions hard stance look stupid. I doubt that would happen. People bring up ball a lot but forget to remember he was nearing the end of his career and looked awful at the saints (not to say he was a bad player at the Pies/quite the opposite). Aish would have a heap of currency in the ND, and especially with the crows at pick 13 who would back themselves to keep Aish happy back in his home town

Still I struggle atm to see how the Pies can put up an adequate deal knowing they will need a big deal to get Treloar in... This could just get messy with the Lions either sticking to the "No trade" stance or asking for a 1st round pick (10-15?), and then the Pies arguing a player should get to where they want to go despite potentially not having much to offer on the trade table

For the Lions Aish couldnt have picked a worse club to ask to be traded too

Ball played 5 years with the pies and was 25-26 when traded. I would trade a pick 15 for Aish, if he went in the ND that's where he would be picked up.

 

[12kilos]

A very immature response to my post. I can assure you my comments have NOTHING to do with the Treloar deal. You might be that shallow to be bitter, but I'm not.

The business of football has never experienced the exodus of players that Brisbane are experiencing over the last few years. As such, there is no historical precedent that you can use to show what works and what doesn't. What we do know is that if Brisbane do give in, it doesn't help them in the long run. So what if he goes to the draft? They lose a pick which is probably a second rounder in a weak draft, as Collingwood need their first rounder for Treloar. Ok, that is bad for the club, but it sends a clear message out to players who have only played two years in a club that they cannot dictate terms to the club that gave them a start and still haven't got anywhere near the best out of their investment.

My first few sentences in my reply to your comments were out of topic i grant you that..
Yes there is no precedent , but if you think sending second year rookies to the PSD and playing hatdball ! is a good look for potential draftees you must be kidding yourself.
Do you think your club will do the same with Lennon? If talks break down?
The Lions need to trade Aish to Collingwood or for that matter any where else if an agreement can be reached
Like i said previously, back themselves from now, on in retaining there kids.
The Lions can't afford to screw themselves and hand Aish to Carlton for nothing.

 

[Bay Pie]

Problem is this year I cant see how the Lions can get a fair deal with Aish to the Pies after the Treloar deal uses all of the Pies good trade currency

2 X 2nd rounders gets you Keays or Hipwood and some change. So a pick 7 for a pick around 10-15 and a home grown talent. That appears a pretty fair deal to me. If you got 13 from the Crows and Keays gets a bid before 13, you have to use pick 13 anyway on him. Only benefit is if you wished to on trade pick 13 for someone. Not sure you'd offer that up for the trade targets that are mooted this year.