Traded Lachie Schultz [Traded to Collingwood for #34 and F1]

[VinnieB]

It would be a good start.

Remember in 2022 when you thought Freo was good?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Cool story, however, since 2010, the Premiers have finished top 4 the following season in 10 of 13 years.

Did say I was using arbitrary numbers

 

[VinnieB]

Did say I was using arbitrary numbers

Zero value.

 

[Caligo]

Zero value.

I think it is probably more complicated than you are making out. I suspect a lot of those teams who made the finals after winning the flag, they had also made prelims and grand finals prior to their flag win, meaning they were more rusted on. The clubs who win a flag almost out of nowhere, like Collingwood have done, aren't really comparable to clubs who have had deep finals runs over many years before winning the flag.

I feel like there is more scope for variation here. (I also have you favourite for 2024 though)

 

[VinnieB]

I think it is probably more complicated than you are making out. I suspect a lot of those teams who made the finals after winning the flag, they had also made prelims and grand finals prior to their flag win, meaning they were more rusted on. The clubs who win a flag almost out of nowhere, like Collingwood have done, aren't really comparable to clubs who have had deep finals runs over many years before winning the flag.

I feel like there is more scope for variation here. (I also have you favourite for 2024 though)

You do realise we missed playing in the 2022 GF by 1 point?

You may also find the Pies may have the most wins over the last 2 seasons over any club.

 

[Caligo]

You do realise we missed playing in the 2022 GF by 1 point?

You may also find the Pies may have the most wins over the last 2 seasons over any club.

Fair points. Also probably not as reliant on older players than many recent flag winners. I just think the variables are so great that the Pies F1 can't just be assumed to be 15+.

It is a good value bet for Freo is my point.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Zero value.

As opposed to all your high value posts?

 

[Joao]

Remember in 2022 when you thought Freo was good?

You know you're on to a killer argument when the personal attacks come out. Well played.

 

[VinnieB]

As opposed to all your high value posts?

No. But when the facts are easily accessible, why disregard them when they are 50% off and when you are corrected, use the excuse they are 'arbitrary' numbers you used.

So you make statements based on a 'feeling' on what the facts may be? Great. At least we now know.

 

[VinnieB]

Fair points. Also probably not as reliant on older players than many recent flag winners. I just think the variables are so great that the Pies F1 can't just be assumed to be 15+.

It is a good value bet for Freo is my point.

Are we reliant on older players? What's old these days? 31+? 30+? Fact is players are playing good football with longer careers. Science, training methods whatever it is, we can't deny that fact. Of our list Pendlebury and Howe probably have 1 more year. 85% of the team has a number of years to go, with Moore, JDG, Nick Daicos, Josh Daicos, Murphy, Hill, McCreery, Quaynor, Maynard, Schultz, Cameron, Lipinski, Noble + kids like Macrae, McInness, Allan, Jakob Ryan being given more opportunities in 2024.

I think opposition fans underestimate the quality of our younger players. Most have delivered while for a lot of the opposition they are unproven.

 

[VinnieB]

You know you're on to a killer argument when the personal attacks come out. Well played.

No. Not really. If we want to use Melbourne’s favourite metric of ‘expected score’, the Pies should have won by 4 or 5 goals. Then add the fact we had our key forward and vice captain out with injury and a key back man knocked out beginning of the 2nd quarter then the winning margin should have been a lot greater.

Add to that the most wins in the game over the past 2 seasons and it was clear the Pies were the best team in 2023.

 

[Joao]

No. Not really. If we want to use Melbourne’s favourite metric of ‘expected score’, the Pies should have won by 4 or 5 goals. Then add the fact we had our key forward and vice captain out with injury and a key back man knocked out beginning of the 2nd quarter then the winning margin should have been a lot greater.

Add to that the most wins in the game over the past 2 seasons and it was clear the Pies were the best team in 2023.

Just open with that. The Freo quip is just dumb.

I still think Geelong was comfortably better team in 2022 than the Pies were in 2023. Won like 13 in a row, was clearly the best turnover team and didn't have to rely on expected score for a 4 goal win. They just straight up won by 80.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

No. But when the facts are easily accessible, why disregard them when they are 50% off and when you are corrected, use the excuse they are 'arbitrary' numbers you used.

So you make statements based on a 'feeling' on what the facts may be? Great. At least we now know.

I literally called them arbitrary to show they were made up and meant nothing. I don’t pretend otherwise. Better than most who think their opinion means much. You seem extremely insecure about your team considering you just won a flag and are basically the strongest in the AFL, chill mate, it will be ok

 

[Caligo]

Are we reliant on older players? What's old these days? 31+? 30+? Fact is players are playing good football with longer careers. Science, training methods whatever it is, we can't deny that fact. Of our list Pendlebury and Howe probably have 1 more year. 85% of the team has a number of years to go, with Moore, JDG, Nick Daicos, Josh Daicos, Murphy, Hill, McCreery, Quaynor, Maynard, Schultz, Cameron, Lipinski, Noble + kids like Macrae, McInness, Allan, Jacob being given more opportunities in 2024.

I think opposition fans underestimate the quality of our younger players. Most have delivered while for a lot of the opposition they are unproven.

I said you are probably not as reliant. Pendles and Sides are the two I was thinking of though. Still really important.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Remember in 2022 when you thought Freo was good?

Remember in 2021 when Collingwood were s**t? They then proceeded to make top 4 and win a flag in the following 2 seasons. Things can turn quickly as you should know.

 

[Proud New Father of 3]

Remember in 2021 when Collingwood were s**t? They then proceeded to make top 4 and win a flag in the following 2 seasons. Things can turn quickly as you should know.

I think it is probably more complicated than you are making out. I suspect a lot of those teams who made the finals after winning the flag, they had also made prelims and grand finals prior to their flag win, meaning they were more rusted on. The clubs who win a flag almost out of nowhere, like Collingwood have done, aren't really comparable to clubs who have had deep finals runs over many years before winning the flag.

I feel like there is more scope for variation here. (I also have you favourite for 2024 though)

While I'm not fully disagreeing, this is this year's top 4 and prelim finalists and their total finals and finals record in last 5 years:

Brisbane 12 (6-6)
Collingwood 10 (6-4)
GWS 9 (6-3)
Melbourne 7 (3-4)
Port 6 (2-4)
Carlton (2-1)

I'd hardly say the Pies came from nowhere which seems to continuously regurgitated.

 

[VinnieB]

Remember in 2021 when Collingwood were s**t? They then proceeded to make top 4 and win a flag in the following 2 seasons. Things can turn quickly as you should know.

Well it is different. One club has a history of playing finals football most years, and rarely stays down.

And you going to remind us again like last season how good your kids are and how 'lucky' Pies are?

It seems this trading period we just improved our team again.

 

[Warhorse]

I think this is a great pick up by Collingwood. Very good player who fits the game plan perfectly whilst in their premiership window

 

[VinnieB]

I said you are probably not as reliant. Pendles and Sides are the two I was thinking of though. Still really important.

I think Pendles' value has been more of a coach on the field. The past couple if years has been invaluable for the younger players and even guys like JDG as they benefit from that knowledge and take over that leadership when he's gone.

That's why bottom clubs having a competition over youth is questionable if they think it's the ingredient to success. They get found out.

Sidebottom has been OK rather than outstanding. Didn't make the top 10 of our B&F. Probably has another year or 2. A great opportunity for one of the kids (like Allan) who have been banging down the door to come in. Or a free agent or trade just like Schultz.

 

[Caligo]

I think Pendles' value has been more of a coach on the field. The past couple if years has been invaluable for the younger players and even guys like JDG as they benefit from that knowledge and take over that leadership when he's gone.

That's why bottom clubs having a competition over youth is questionable if they think it's the ingredient to success. They get found out.

Sidebottom has been OK rather than outstanding. Didn't make the top 10 of our B&F. Probably has another year or 2. A great opportunity for one of ghe kids who have been banging down the door to come in. Or a free agent or trade just like Schultz.

I think you are being unfair on the current playing ability of both veterans, but every good side has always had a few important vets.

Certainly isn't a reason you can't succeed in 2024.

 

[VinnieB]

I think you are being unfair on the current playing ability of both veterans, but every good side has always had a few important vets.

Certainly isn't a reason you can't succeed in 2024.

What I'm saying is Sidebottom in particular isn't the difference between the team having another good season or dropping off completely. In fact, I doubt any team would be significantly impacted if they lost a couple of good players.

The Hawks may be different, because of its reliance on Sicily, but that says more about the lack of leadership and experience in the team.

 

[Caligo]

What I'm saying is Sidebottom in particular isn't the difference between the team having another good season or dropping off completely. In fact, I doubt any team would be significantly impacted if they lost a couple of good players.

The Hawks may be different, because of its reliance on Sicily, but that says more about the lack of leadership and experience in the team.

Sadly i think Hawthorn are more reliant on 2 players than any team in the league (sic and lewis).

Collingwood are clearly a stronger side for many reasons, but one is that you aren't reliant on 1 or 2 guys like we are. And I think shultz will be great pickup for you. Perfect sort of guy to bring in to a club right in their flag window.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Well it is different. One club has a history of playing finals football most years, and rarely stays down.

And you going to remind us again like last season how good your kids are and how 'lucky' Pies are?

It seems this trading period we just improved our team again.

Would want to hope so, as good as Shooter is, I wouldn't be trading a F1 for him.

 

[VinnieB]

Would want to hope so, as good as Shooter is, I wouldn't be trading a F1 for him.

Changed your tune now that he’s left? You must have been over the moon with the trade.
Anyway, you pay what he’s worth to your club.

He’ll fit in perfectly and make us instantly better. If he can pressure and kick over 30 goals a season in the 4th worst attack, he should be able to take his game to another level at the Pies.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Changed your tune now that he’s left? You must have been over the moon with the trade.
Anyway, you pay what he’s worth to your club.

He’ll fit in perfectly and make us instantly better. If he can pressure and kick over 30 goals a season in the 4th worst attack, he should be able to take his game to another level at the Pies.

Good player but don't think he would even trigger Band 2 compensation for him next year if he left (new CBA). So milking every bit of value out of him is good business imo. Will be great in your forward line.