List Mgmt. 2023 Trade & List Management discussion

Dalions · Sep 19, 2023

briztoon said:
Watching the delistings, if you don’t have a combination of endurance and speed, it’s hard to stay on a list. Especially for mids.

Being a big body isn’t enough anymore, unless you’re at the very top of the game.

Bye bye Matho and JL next year

irel · Sep 19, 2023

briztoon said:
No else worried that Doedee isn’t really a tall defender?

Doedee and Starcevich are the same height, so we’d effectively be moving to a two tall set up in defence.

No they are not.

Nunez · Sep 19, 2023

briztoon said:
No else worried that Doedee isn’t really a tall defender?

Doedee and Starcevich are the same height, so we’d effectively be moving to a two tall set up in defence.

Doedee plays quite tall.

Harris can lock down and intercept. Payne can lock down. Doedee can intercept and is decent in one on ones. Starce can lock down.

Can only see teams who have three genuine key talls troubling us, and thanks to Elixuh Gunston is ours!

JasRulz63 · Sep 19, 2023

From what I've seen Doedee plays pretty much the role Lester has been filling for us.

BuntonRules · Sep 19, 2023

JasRulz63 said:
From what I've seen Doedee plays pretty much the role Lester has been filling for us.

With Gardiner it is a lot of insurance for 1 position.

Mr Ripper · Sep 19, 2023

briztoon said:
Watching the delistings

Ooh, they’re so cute

Tom14 · Sep 19, 2023

BuntonRules said:
With Gardiner it is a lot of insurance for 1 position.

To me it’s one position where you can’t have enough depth. Look at Port - already not many solid options so injury hits you far worse.

Nathan Barley · Sep 19, 2023

Without putting too much thought into it, the better defences are on the shorter side

martinson · Sep 19, 2023

Nathan Barley said:
Without putting too much thought into it, the better defences are on the shorter side

It's going back a while now but in our 3 peat we had Michael who was big but not super tall ,Leppitsch who was cruiser height ,and the rest were all strong little tough guys, Scott brothers, Johnson, Ashcroft. White was what ,6'2 ??

Key forwards are taller now obviously but putting someone on one just because they're a similar height isn't likely the answer. If you're not as tall you utilise the other advantages you have.

Sproj · Sep 19, 2023

martinson said:
It's going back a while now but in our 3 peat we had Michael who was big but not super tall ,Leppitsch who was cruiser height ,and the rest were all strong little tough guys, Scott brothers, Johnson, Ashcroft. White was what ,6'2 ??

Key forwards are taller now obviously but putting someone on one just because they're a similar height isn't likely the answer. If you're not as tall you utilise the other advantages you have.

Or if you are Aliir, you just blatantly chop arms, push in the back and do everything else illegal knowing that you won't get penalised.

BigCat2 · Sep 19, 2023

Tom Doedee would play a valuable role in our defence, if we were to get him. He is 187cm but plays taller than his height, is a good hybrid defender who can play on different types. Is good one on one, but importantly he would add a lot of intercept power.

In his last 2 full seasons, in 2021 Doedee had 8.29 intercepts per game, and 7.65 intercepts per game in 2022. This would have placed him #6 this year for 2021 (behind only Sam Taylor, James Sicily, Darcy Moore, Tom Stewart and Jake Lever), and #13 for 2022. In those 2 years Doedee had total of 16.6 and 16.1 possessions per game, meaning about half of his possessions are intercepts. This would be very valuable to us, considering this year we only had Harris Andrews (7.54 intercepts, AFL #15) and Ryan Lester (6.0 intercepts, AFL #46) in top 100 for AFL. We did have Wilmot & Payne (#103, 4.96 intercepts), Starcevich (#107, 4.92 intercepts) and Coleman ($116, 4.67 intercepts) outside the top 100 though.

Intercepting defenders are amongst the most valuable assets in the modern game. In years past we used to be clearance/forward half team. This year we've found better balance by having more intercepting ability and scoring heavily on turnover. Having Doedee will only add to that. As to whose place he would take - harder to say, as our defensive 7 looks fairly settled (Andrews, Payne, Lester, Starcevich, Coleman, McKenna and Wilmot). He may take over from Lester (sorry 3KZ) or fit in if say Wilmot moves further up the ground. I'm sure our list management team wouldn't just go grab a player unless we see a clear role for him in our team.

We already had interest in Doedee prior to his ACL, and now with his injury, it allows us to buy this stock while its value is at its lowest. 5 years for decent money would be smart use of the salary cap which will only go up in time. He is currently 26, so would be 31-32 when he comes to end of the contract. These decent but not high coin, longer term contracts are now the way to go, as they allow you to lock in players longer term, ability to smooth salary cap over years and maintain some leverage if players want to break contract early and be traded away. Free agent too so no loss in draft capital.

The main risk is obviously if he does not come back as well post injury. Once OK'ed by our medical people, it would just be known risk when acquiring an injured player. The main advantage is that even if he loses some speed or agility, he would still play a valuable role as interceptor, as you thrive there due to smart reading of the play, good anticipation and a well set up defensive press to obtain intercepts - more than rely on pure athleticism.

rwan566 · Sep 19, 2023

So taking Lester’s spot he would be an upgrade of 1.5 intercept per game and Lester is a better kick and better with the ground ball and tackling

Sproj · Sep 19, 2023

The reality is, as good as Lester has been going, he’s starting to get on in AFL terms. Bringing Doedee in realistically is looking at future proofing the side for a sustained tilt most likely from 2025 as he’ll miss a large chunk of next year as it stands anyway.

Again, as good as Lester has been, one only needs to look at Geelong this year to see how quickly over 30s can fall away and it can be completely unexpected and Lester is not a superstar to be frank so his drop off could be problematic if and when it comes.

T Rick · Sep 20, 2023

briztoon said:
No else worried that Doedee isn’t really a tall defender?

Doedee and Starcevich are the same height, so we’d effectively be moving to a two tall set up in defence.

Doedee listed as 190cm and Starcevich as 187cm on respective club websites.

Morbidly_Obese · Sep 20, 2023

BigCat2 said:
Tom Doedee would play a valuable role in our defence, if we were to get him. He is 187cm but plays taller than his height, is a good hybrid defender who can play on different types. Is good one on one, but importantly he would add a lot of intercept power.

In his last 2 full seasons, in 2021 Doedee had 8.29 intercepts per game, and 7.65 intercepts per game in 2022. This would have placed him #6 this year for 2021 (behind only Sam Taylor, James Sicily, Darcy Moore, Tom Stewart and Jake Lever), and #13 for 2022. In those 2 years Doedee had total of 16.6 and 16.1 possessions per game, meaning about half of his possessions are intercepts. This would be very valuable to us, considering this year we only had Harris Andrews (7.54 intercepts, AFL #15) and Ryan Lester (6.0 intercepts, AFL #46) in top 100 for AFL. We did have Wilmot & Payne (#103, 4.96 intercepts), Starcevich (#107, 4.92 intercepts) and Coleman ($116, 4.67 intercepts) outside the top 100 though.

Intercepting defenders are amongst the most valuable assets in the modern game. In years past we used to be clearance/forward half team. This year we've found better balance by having more intercepting ability and scoring heavily on turnover. Having Doedee will only add to that. As to whose place he would take - harder to say, as our defensive 7 looks fairly settled (Andrews, Payne, Lester, Starcevich, Coleman, McKenna and Wilmot). He may take over from Lester (sorry 3KZ) or fit in if say Wilmot moves further up the ground. I'm sure our list management team wouldn't just go grab a player unless we see a clear role for him in our team.

We already had interest in Doedee prior to his ACL, and now with his injury, it allows us to buy this stock while its value is at its lowest. 5 years for decent money would be smart use of the salary cap which will only go up in time. He is currently 26, so would be 31-32 when he comes to end of the contract. These decent but not high coin, longer term contracts are now the way to go, as they allow you to lock in players longer term, ability to smooth salary cap over years and maintain some leverage if players want to break contract early and be traded away. Free agent too so no loss in draft capital.

The main risk is obviously if he does not come back as well post injury. Once OK'ed by our medical people, it would just be known risk when acquiring an injured player. The main advantage is that even if he loses some speed or agility, he would still play a valuable role as interceptor, as you thrive there due to smart reading of the play, good anticipation and a well set up defensive press to obtain intercepts - more than rely on pure athleticism.

I prefer Lester to be honest.

Morbidly_Obese · Sep 20, 2023

martinson said:
It's going back a while now but in our 3 peat we had Michael who was big but not super tall ,Leppitsch who was cruiser height ,and the rest were all strong little tough guys, Scott brothers, Johnson, Ashcroft. White was what ,6'2 ??

Key forwards are taller now obviously but putting someone on one just because they're a similar height isn't likely the answer. If you're not as tall you utilise the other advantages you have.

Height is also definitely a huge advantage you can't line up doedee on Joe Daniher that's not gonna end well for him.

Dalions · Sep 20, 2023

Morbidly_Obese said:
Height is also definitely a huge advantage you can't line up doedee on Joe Daniher that's not gonna end well for him.

If he is playing for our team he is not going to have to line up against Joe Daniher.

scoman · Sep 20, 2023

Dalions said:
If he is playing for our team he is not going to have to line up against Joe Daniher.

The One Where Estelle Dies Episode 15 GIF by Friends

blueiris · Sep 20, 2023

With JL winning the Liston surely a team like Sydney who are apparently chasing big midfielders look at him

M Malice · Sep 20, 2023

I'm a big yes on Tom Doedee, we have Froggy to take care of most of 2024 and it will probably take Doedee till 2025 to get back to his best.

Froggy may retire at the end of next season as well.

dlanod · Sep 20, 2023

rwan566 said:
So taking Lester’s spot he would be an upgrade of 1.5 intercept per game and Lester is a better kick and better with the ground ball and tackling

From my recollection of Doedee playing, Lester is a good enough kick that he's not a liability with the ball in his hand while Doedee is actually a very good kick, more of a weapon.

BrainOfMorbius · Sep 20, 2023

Dalions said:
If he is playing for our team he is not going to have to line up against Joe Daniher.

Surely it's better for us if he DOES have to line up against Joe Daniher though, Joe would have a day out. One in the do not recruit column there

irel · Sep 20, 2023

Doedee is listed 190cm
Also what I find interesting all the Bellow Average metrics in the 11 games he played.

Nathan Barley · Sep 20, 2023

irel said:
Doedee is listed 190cm
Also what I find interesting all the Bellow Average metrics in the 11 games he played.
View attachment 1808565

Averages are impacted by his 11th game lasting about 10 minutes

Section 5 · Sep 20, 2023

For those on BF that were interested in Silvagni

Silvagni signs Blues extension, but is it the right career decision?

Jack Silvagni won't be part of this year's Trade Period after putting pen to paper at Carlton.

www.sen.com.au

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