WWE Elimination Chamber, Sunday 19th February 2023, 12pm AEDT

[ULTIMATE_WARRIOR]

I’m so glad some of you aren’t booking.

It would make total sense if the reactions to Cody Rhodes were negative. But they haven’t been, they have been positive, merch has been flying off the shelves by all reports and the attendance & ratings are up.

What sort of champion would Sami be going forward? Could his character survive on its own, away from the Bloodline story, as the face of the company and main event? I don’t think so unfortunately, and Sami admitted as much in a recent interview.

Having Roman drop the titles for a one off pop from a home crowd is not the way to go long term. Even with a bunch of title switch shenanigans. His 900 day build/reign as champion needs to be ended by someone who can maximise the most out of that moment, and become a star on a level that can sustained. Cody is more that than Sami.

As for the potential tag team match that looks likely. Well there is still 6 weeks until WM, so there is plenty of time to build the heat there and take the Jey Uso chapter anywhere. The potential of the Bloodline downfall, losing all their titles at the one event is an interesting one to me. Also Sami has never won a Tag Team Championship in WWE as one poster claimed. Winning one with KO, repairing that friendship that has been at odds for months and been involved in the Bloodline downfall together is a pretty neat way to come full circle.

 

[mickelboy182]

merch has been flying off the shelves by all reports and the attendance & ratings are up.

That's great news for shareholders, not sure it has much to do with their gripes though.

 

[ULTIMATE_WARRIOR]

That's great news for shareholders, not sure it has much to do with their gripes though.

High Cody merch sales would be one indicator of his overall popularity with the audience.

A factor no doubt worthy of consideration when contemplating changing a creative direction

 

[Southerntakeover]

High Cody merch sales would be one indicator of his overall popularity with the audience.

A factor no doubt worthy of consideration when contemplating changing a creative direction

When fans think they're really the owners.

"Yeah the product was bad and unsatisfying but I'm sure some people made some money so I'm happy"

 

[mickelboy182]

High Cody merch sales would be one indicator of his overall popularity with the audience.

A factor no doubt worthy of consideration when contemplating changing a creative direction

I'm steadfastly against using popularity as a metric for entertainment mediums. Some real dreadful s**t out there is extremely popular.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Also, rubbish on the idea Sami isn't selling merch. Those shirts are everywhere in the crowds.

 

[AFDogs]

I enjoyed the event. WWE is stepping up massively lately. Don't really care Zayn didn't win, it would have pleased the Canadians but obviously they have bigger plans. Mens Chamber was an absolute banger.

WrestleMania is shaping up to be a huge event. Can't wait.

 

[eddiesmith]

Those kind of organic chances don't come around too often. People can probably point to Kofimania as a, "look, see what happens when you try and please the fans?" But they kinda dragged their feet on that one too, all for the "WrestleMania moment" feels.

They're kinda killing their events, though. These are really becoming fillers, much like the MCU and their TV and movies so s**t only happens at the Royal Rumble and WrestleMania. Trouble is, both those events are too close together.

If it we were still in the PPV era, they'd have capitalised. They need to sell. But now it's all media rights, there's no need for them to do it.

I mean, off the top of my head, you could have had some sort of disputed finish, Sami wins the titles, Heyman pulls some "it was only for the Universal title in the fine print" on the next Raw/Smackdown, the titles are split, Roman still Reigns, Cody can have his moment, SamiMania can shine. Yeah, as fans we're always gonna be impatient, but this whole "payoff" is ultimately going to fall flat whenever it does happen, because it will feel so played out that it just doesn't feel organic.

I mean Clash at the Castle was bad. They flubbed two home-town heroes in the one night. I never expected Drew to win that one, but man they cooked it and left us with America Pie ffs. If they didn't want to roll with Sami, why bother with this one? Just push the Royal Rumble stuff (you know, that event that was less than a month ago?) out to this one. Could have been KO/Reigns main eventing this instead of the Rumble (remember Reigns being challenged and just going "yeah, sure"... really feels like their forethought could easily be corrected to not put themselves into these situations where the fans demand something and are never gonna get it.

Just so... unsatisfying.

Yep or they could have done a tag match with KO/Owens v Reigns/Solo

 

[eddiesmith]

I’m so glad some of you aren’t booking.

It would make total sense if the reactions to Cody Rhodes were negative. But they haven’t been, they have been positive, merch has been flying off the shelves by all reports and the attendance & ratings are up.

What sort of champion would Sami be going forward? Could his character survive on its own, away from the Bloodline story, as the face of the company and main event? I don’t think so unfortunately, and Sami admitted as much in a recent interview.

Having Roman drop the titles for a one off pop from a home crowd is not the way to go long term. Even with a bunch of title switch shenanigans. His 900 day build/reign as champion needs to be ended by someone who can maximise the most out of that moment, and become a star on a level that can sustained. Cody is more that than Sami.

As for the potential tag team match that looks likely. Well there is still 6 weeks until WM, so there is plenty of time to build the heat there and take the Jey Uso chapter anywhere. The potential of the Bloodline downfall, losing all their titles at the one event is an interesting one to me. Also Sami has never won a Tag Team Championship in WWE as one poster claimed. Winning one with KO, repairing that friendship that has been at odds for months and been involved in the Bloodline downfall together is a pretty neat way to come full circle.

It’s fans who are so easily satisfied that keep the WWE booming this s**t.

If you think Roman is a good champion worthy of 900+ days beating everyone then clearly you’re part of the problem.

30% or so drop in viewership since the Roman era begun, it’s telling.

 

[TheGhostOfJohnBelushi]

I’m so glad some of you aren’t booking.

It would make total sense if the reactions to Cody Rhodes were negative. But they haven’t been, they have been positive, merch has been flying off the shelves by all reports and the attendance & ratings are up.

What sort of champion would Sami be going forward? Could his character survive on its own, away from the Bloodline story, as the face of the company and main event? I don’t think so unfortunately, and Sami admitted as much in a recent interview.

Having Roman drop the titles for a one off pop from a home crowd is not the way to go long term. Even with a bunch of title switch shenanigans. His 900 day build/reign as champion needs to be ended by someone who can maximise the most out of that moment, and become a star on a level that can sustained. Cody is more that than Sami.

As for the potential tag team match that looks likely. Well there is still 6 weeks until WM, so there is plenty of time to build the heat there and take the Jey Uso chapter anywhere. The potential of the Bloodline downfall, losing all their titles at the one event is an interesting one to me. Also Sami has never won a Tag Team Championship in WWE as one poster claimed. Winning one with KO, repairing that friendship that has been at odds for months and been involved in the Bloodline downfall together is a pretty neat way to come full circle.

Absolutely no reason any championship reign has to be "long term". It's not even about the championship, that's just a prop.

They've invested so much and built to a perfect crescendo. I understand you don't give the people what they want, you give them what you want them to want, but sometimes the surge is so powerful it just makes sense. Even for just a moment in time.

You can take the belt off Sami the next day, it doesn't need to be long term at all. But moments like that don't come around very often. If they switched the belt to Sami at WrestleMania, it would feel contrived, it'd be, "Ok, you wanted it, here you go, fans. See, we told you so, who's he face next? He's not a long term champion."

Way too much is being made of this "900+" days crap. Who cares? TBH if he drops it at WM to Cody, then what? What does Cody do? I fear it won't be the rub you think it might be. Happy to be wrong, but other than a torn tit and his daddy not winning the WWWF title, Cody hasn't gone through any storyline adversity here. And if what I've read previously, about Roman being champ past WM, when does Cody actually win it? SummerSlam? Yawn. What a wet fart way to do things.

Sami's never gonna be the guy in a long term fashion, but he doesn't need to be. One night could have been an epic moment that would be remembered for the ages. Course correct after that however you want. Probably even enhances the story, with Heyman pulling contractual shenanigans and the Tribal Chief having the last laugh.

I just feel it's a missed opportunity. I'll wait and see if WM convinces me WWE knows what they're doing, but eh, they probably won't. I'm open minded, though, so we'll see.

And I am starting to wonder if the sale of the company is affecting booking - the potential buyer may need to have this long term champion going in that they then can decide what to do with.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Yep or they could have done a tag match with KO/Owens v Reigns/Solo

Or do the KO/Sami v Usos as the main event of this ppv.

Sami wins, massive home town moment, titles are elevated far more than by being a midcard nothing at Mania, and you get to sell the break up / reigns vulnerability. Have Reigns accidentally cost them from ringside by arguing with Jey.

Sami comes out with momentum. There's still heat on the story. The usos, particularly Jey can be protected.

They were deliberately trying to sabotage Sami with the last week's booking, to try to transfer the heat to Roman/Cody. The difficulty is that fans didn't react with kayfabe heat. They just lost immersion and detached from the event.

 

[nobbyiscool]

Elimination Chamber made me finally understand why I believe Roman hasn't been the quality of champion that people have made him out to be.

Perhaps it's with rose coloured glasses. Perhaps I'm forgetting key feuds in previous eras. Please correct me if I'm wrong but doubly please provide examples to demonstrate how I am.

When Rock, Austin, Cena, Hogan, etc. - the true legitimate top WWF (WWE) guys of the past have been booked as the biggest star in the company and were champion the show was booked around them being THE most important aspect of the show at that time.

It just hasn't been that way for Roman. And this more than anything else is what agitates me so much more than anything Roman himself actually does.

At Elimination Chamber the entire show was booked around Sami Zayn and getting his shot in Montreal in front of his adoring hometown fans

At the Royal Rumble the main event was booked around it being the "final test" for Sami Zayn. This was clearly even more important than the actual challenger. They used the challenger's relationship with Zayn to further build it around him.

War Games was booked around Sami Zayn and his relationship with Jey Uso and how he fit into the Bloodline

Crown Jewel was built around the spectacle of Logan Paul challenging against a proper WWE superstar for the title. The champion didn't need to be Roman Reigns for the same storyline to play out the way that it did. He could've challenged Drew McIntyre or any number of legit main event talent and it have the same meaning.

Clash at the Castle was built similarly as Elimination Chamber. Local hero getting an opportunity to win the title (back) in front of his adoring fans.

SummerSlam's central storyline was centred on Paul Heyman and his relationship with both Lesnar and Reigns. But it's as close to legitimate top billing we've had of Reigns's character importance to the title and story in the past 7 months.

Although this is only the most recent 7 months it's not the only significant block of time in this 900+ day reign that Roman hasn't been the most important part of the show. It's littered throughout his entire run

We head into WrestleMania where, you guessed it, the big story is about Cody Rhodes and whether he can claim the ultimate title that alluded his father (and brother) and finally become the top dog.

Sure it helps that his opponent has been champion for so long, that his opponent is a monster and not someone that he should perceivably be on even odds (at worst) at beating but nonetheless we go into WrestleMania where your 900+ day champion is second fiddle to his opponent.

This simply has never happened in WWE history. When Rock, Austin, Hogan, Cena, etc. were at the top they were presented as the focal point

When it has looked like it's about to happen in the past, the WWE has either followed through with the title change or they've teased it and followed through after building it some more (e.g. Jeff Hardy lost the title numerous times before he finally won the title in 2008.

There's always been a pay off

There simply hasn't been one with Roman.

And for a company that believes in him so strongly the fact that they haven't given him top billing so often on his own storylines speaks volumes.

An on point comment in a post show Reddit thread yesterday summed it up perfectly. The original comment was that they'd never seen a crowd go from being so electric and lively to so dead.

The response was.


And that's my number one problem with the WWE.

I'm so sick of being blueballed without a payoff to it

Sorry but in 5 years time when the WWE Universe thinks back at this time people will think of Sami Zayn in Montreal, Drew McIntyre at the Castle, and many of Roman's challengers and how many times WWE had the ability to have their moment of shine but didn't follow through.

Instead of being the man, the catalyst, Roman has been the foil and that makes him fall short of what the WWE so desperately wanted him to be

It doesn't take years, nor does it take this many words, to understand that WWE has always booked its good guys as the main characters. Because that's who fans have always paid to see. The only difference now is that Vince preferred his babyfaces to be champ, whereas Triple H grew up more with the NWA and its heel champs.

 

[JP Sauce]

When fans think they're really the owners.

"Yeah the product was bad and unsatisfying but I'm sure some people made some money so I'm happy"

It’s just a different metric to look at, the same as using US broadcast and cable tv ratings as a measure of popularity/success.

“Less people watch broadcast television now than 20 years ago so it’s obviously terrible”

 

[JP Sauce]

Or do the KO/Sami v Usos as the main event of this ppv.

Sami wins, massive home town moment, titles are elevated far more than by being a midcard nothing at Mania, and you get to sell the break up / reigns vulnerability. Have Reigns accidentally cost them from ringside by arguing with Jey.

Sami comes out with momentum. There's still heat on the story. The usos, particularly Jey can be protected.

They were deliberately trying to sabotage Sami with the last week's booking, to try to transfer the heat to Roman/Cody. The difficulty is that fans didn't react with kayfabe heat. They just lost immersion and detached from the event.

Why would KO and Sami team up so soon after Rumble? They haven’t reconciled at all.

 

[ULTIMATE_WARRIOR]

When fans think they're really the owners.

"Yeah the product was bad and unsatisfying but I'm sure some people made some money so I'm happy"

No one here thinks they’re the owner. I’m just using a measurement (albeit only reported) to back up my opinion.

I also don’t think the product was “bad and unsatisfying” either

 

[ULTIMATE_WARRIOR]

Also, rubbish on the idea Sami isn't selling merch. Those shirts are everywhere in the crowds.

I don’t believe anyone said that he wasn’t…

 

[ULTIMATE_WARRIOR]

I'm steadfastly against using popularity as a metric for entertainment mediums. Some real dreadful s**t out there is extremely popular.

That’s fair enough for you. What’s good and bad in entertainment is often very subjective to one’s preferences.

 

[ULTIMATE_WARRIOR]

It’s fans who are so easily satisfied that keep the WWE booming this s**t.

If you think Roman is a good champion worthy of 900+ days beating everyone then clearly you’re part of the problem.

30% or so drop in viewership since the Roman era begun, it’s telling.

I don’t believe there is a problem. If you enjoy it that’s great and if you don’t that’s fair enough. There’s plenty of content out there.

Viewership of the weekly television may have dropped but the PLE’s have reportedly risen as well as other metrics like online activity.

 

[Southerntakeover]

It’s just a different metric to look at, the same as using US broadcast and cable tv ratings as a measure of popularity/success.

“Less people watch broadcast television now than 20 years ago so it’s obviously terrible”

Which was responding solely to the smug proposition that people who don't enjoy something could never stop watching. Try to keep up.

 

[ULTIMATE_WARRIOR]

Absolutely no reason any championship reign has to be "long term". It's not even about the championship, that's just a prop.

No there’s no reason it has to be long at all. It’s actually not even very common for it to go this length. That’s why this particular reign is so special, in my opinion. We probably won’t have one like it again.

Yes it’s a prop but it’s a very important prop to this particular character and this particular long played storyline

 

[Southerntakeover]

Why would KO and Sami team up so soon after Rumble? They haven’t reconciled at all.

The enemy of my enemy.

They had weeks to work on that. They spent entire episodes with no narrative advancement this month.

No one cares about a slow build will Owens do what we all know he's going to do. There's nothing at stake.

 

[JP Sauce]

Which was responding solely to the smug proposition that people who don't enjoy something could never stop watching. Try to keep up.

I would guess that most people who complain about it online will be back at some point. They obviously care enough about it to complain (a lot). Besides, no one here counts towards those ratings anyway.

Also decline in tv viewership comes up all the time when people are complaining about the WWE/Reigns. This wasn’t the first time it’s come up.

 

[JP Sauce]

The enemy of my enemy.

They had weeks to work on that. They spent entire episodes with no narrative advancement this month.

No one cares about a slow build will Owens do what we all know he's going to do. There's nothing at stake.

You’re doing a lot of speaking on behalf of everyone here. It seems to me like plenty of people care about a slow build, given how engaged people have been with the Bloodline story.

So KO no sells the Rumble beat down and months of Sami being heel, costing KO matches, etc. just to rush to some sort of “can they coexist” thing?

Also why would Jey and Sami want to fight each other? That’s an even bigger part of the story that you’re choosing to just ignore because you’re easily bored.

 

[TheGhostOfJohnBelushi]

No there’s no reason it has to be long at all. It’s actually not even very common for it to go this length. That’s why this particular reign is so special, in my opinion. We probably won’t have one like it again.

Yes it’s a prop but it’s a very important prop to this particular character and this particular long played storyline

Just to clarify, I was referring to if Sami won the title, it doesn't need to be long term. In fact, it could be handed back to Roman the next day just be a blip on the radar as far as his "Reign" is. You'd get both Sami's moment and continue the championship reign.

TBH, I feel this is just the same as Undertaker's WrestleMania streak. It was never a thing until it was a thing and then became something "special" and, really, just caused a stunned silence. People still complain about it being Lesnar, but what else can you do with a streak other than end it or continue it forever?

 

[Southerntakeover]

You’re doing a lot of speaking on behalf of everyone here. It seems to me like plenty of people care about a slow build, given how engaged people have been with the Bloodline story.

So KO no sells the Rumble beat down and months of Sami being heel, costing KO matches, etc. just to rush to some sort of “can they coexist” thing?

Also why would Jey and Sami want to fight each other? That’s an even bigger part of the story that you’re choosing to just ignore because you’re easily bored.

Me, the same replicated views across social media and more significantly the obvious and clear reaction of the live audience last night.

It went over like a lead balloon.

You could have easily sold the jey story within the match, I've already set out how I would have done it.

Edit: significant difference between a slow build to a main event story which felt unpredictable (though ultimately wasn't), and slow building a fait accompli in the mid card. You can't build tension around will Owens team with him. We already know the answer.