Who of the current side would get in a revised "Team of the Century"

[Sttew]

Without reading what others have said, I reckon the following players could vie for inclusion in a revised TOC:

Gary Ablett Jnr
Matthew Scarlett - easily Geelong's greatest ever full back
Corey Enright - arguably one of our best ever HBF's
Jimmy Bartel - a possibility
Steve Johnston - a possibility

 

[sarah.13]

Enright is miles ahead of Milburn in the queue.

Totally agree!!

 

[The Chiefton]

I'm not calling for his inclusion, but where does Brad Ottens rank in your history? would he be the 2nd or third best ruckman you guys have had?

 

[pinion]

I'm not calling for his inclusion, but where does Brad Ottens rank in your history? would he be the 2nd or third best ruckman you guys have had?

possibly the third best, or at least the best in my life time. i'd have said he didn't play enough games to make the team of the century for us, but he played almost double that of polly farmer

 

[manboob]

It's a tough one with Otto, one of the all time greats - and I dare say responsible for our 3 flags but as pinion said probably didn't play enough games to get in ahead of polly and newman. From the current crop I would say Scarlett is a certainty. Regarding Bartel ask me in 3 years and Selwood ask me in 10.

 

[Turbocat]

Wank ! The whole naming on these things was just to have a reason for an expensive night out.

Team of the Cent.? Crap , its best 22 of the Cent. Obviously what was best 50 years ago may not even be VFL standard now , who knows if current players could play back then? Its so subjective.

Ottens will never jump Farmer and Newman yet he may well be as important as both.

Will Bartel replace Goggin or Hocking , probably not yet. Greeves must have been a hell of player but how would he fit into todays team?

In fact , we have no idea if any of these guys would mesh the way this current group has. If we have learnt anything the few years is that indvidual players do not always make up great teams. On talent , on skill , if you put best individuals up , our current group might struggle to have many in the best 22 to ever put the hoops on. We have been around 150 years , after all.

Team of the Century . One may say adding a star would make them better but losing Ablett last year didn't make us worse. The guts of our current group are the best TEAM i have seen in the hoops.

 

[Cool Cat]

Can't believe the talk here about including GAJ. The guy is an awesome player, and delivered in spades for the club over a golden four year period. But then he betrayed the club and walked, forever fracturing the special relationship between his family and the club.

I'm over it, and still enjoy watching him play and wish him all the best for his career. But I do not want him back at the club and he should never be honored with a spot in a team of the century or such.


He was a star for the club for a few years, but ultimately screwed us in a very selfish and public way. That's all that should matter, we all love our club, don't we? There are many players from the current era who are so much more worthy, as demonstrated on GF day 2011!

 

[Cursed Cat]

it's hard to quantify because so many of the Geelong TOC contenders finished their careers before many of us began watching football. Or were born.

so we rely on grainy footage and more importantly anecdotal accounts to weigh up the merits of many of these past champions.

but it's still a fun exercise to indulge in so I'll have a crack.

firstly, I put a lot of weight on players who played in successful teams, so if imo it is a line-ball decision between two players as to who makes the cut, I'd go with the one with the most premiership medallions every time.

secondly, as I touched on earlier, I haven't actually watched half of the widely acknowledged contenders for TOC honors - I am a reasonably keen historian of Geelongs fortunes though, and in reading and hearing about past champions and their deeds you start to form opinions about their standing in the Geelong pantheon ...


B :

B. Smith - here's an example of one of those guys whom I never saw play and have seen very little footage of. But the few frames of film, some photos and a ton of testimonials from peers and fans leave me in little doubt that Bernie Smith was a champion player and bloke.
Brownlow medallist in a Premiership year and played in the back-to-back winning teams of '51-'52. Won a couple of best & fairest awards too.

M. Scarlett

G. Todd - won a best & fairest in a premiership year ('31), three best & fairests in total and played in two premierships. Represented Victoria on 12 occasions too.

HB :

C. Enright

R. Hickey - a genuine icon of the club. Played in the 1931 premiership team and captain-coached the 1937 side to a flag.
Won best & fairest awards in 1928 and 1934 and was runner-up in the Brownlow count of 1934. Later coached the team to back-to-back flags.
Represented Victoria 18 times (!), some as captain.

L. Hardiman - I love all the things I have read about Les Hardiman, who in my mind is slightly overlooked when it comes to talking about the greats of Geelong. He was named on the bench in the original team of the century, but for reasons of team balance I am starting him at half-back.
Hardiman played 135 games for the Pivotonians and kicked 236 goals.
He had an older brother, Pete, who also played 160 games with Geelong.
But from all accounts, Les was absolute class.
There are a couple of great photos of him in full flight, high up in the air taking hangers.
He played in the '31 & '37 premiership teams, and by captain-coach Reg Hickey's account he was probably the equivalent of the Norm Smith medal winner in '37; starting forward before going into defense to quell a dangerous Ron Todd. Won a best & fairest in 1933 and represented Victoria 5 times.
Pipped out Geoff Williams and Darren Milburn for this spot.

C :

J. Bartel - beats out some stiff comp in Mick Turner (245 games, 285 goals), Peter Riccardi (288 games, 286 goals) and Mick's dad Leo Turner, who was a vital weapon in the '51-'52 Premiership sides.
You could argue that the others were more traditional wingman, particularly Mick and Ricco, but Jimmy is nothing if not versatile, and you could not seriously argue against his inclusion in the starting 18 imo.

E. Greeves - we've had some great centremen over the years, but this guy's contribution to the fabric of the club can't be overlooked or undersold.
Played in the 1925 and 1931 premiership sides.
Won the inaugural Brownlow medal in 1924, then was runner-up in '25, '26 and '28 !
Represented Victoria 7 times and was renowned for his superb footskills, and not just in Australia.

B. Davis - known as a half-forward flanker but for team balance he lines up on a wing, where his blistering pace would make the transition pretty simple.
Judging by his goal tally (149 from 189 games) I always got the impression he played up the ground quite a bit where he could exploit his pace more.
Played in the back-to-back flag winning sides of '51'-51, won a best & fairest in 1957 and was named both Victorian and All-Australian captain in 1958. He retired in '58 while still at the top of his game.

HF :

G. Ablett snr. - sadly one of the few players selected in this side without a premiership medal to his name. The best player I have ever seen.

F. Flanagan - pips enigmatic Jack Collins at centre half-forward, a position we have traditionally struggled to produce stars in.
Flanagan however was a gun - captaining the '51-'52 premiership sides and playing for Victoria 23 times, captain-coaching the side in 1952.
He won a best & fairest in 1949 and was runner-up in the Brownlow count of 1950.

S. Johnson - anyone who doubts his credentials only need consider this : during the clubs current golden era, Johnson has probably been the one forward line constant. By the time he has finished his c.v. be very impressive, and is already bulging with honors; 3-time All-Australian and 3-time premiership player for starters, one of those netting him a Norm Smith medal.

F :

P. Chapman - nudges out the exciting Peter Pianto by virtue of playing more games and having one extra flag. Also, Chappy's efforts in our winning Grand Finals have been uniformly very good-to-excellent.

D. Wade - won a flag in '63, a best & fairest from full-forward in '69, 3-time Coleman medal winner, 7 time Victorian rep. Over 800 goals in the hoops and over 1000 in total.

G. Ablett jnr. - deserves a spot.

R :

G. Farmer - Polly would just about be the first picked, as much for his services to football as to Geelong.

G. Hocking - no flags for Buddha, but he bled for Geelong and was a star of his era, winning 4 best & fairests and 4 All-Australian selections.

B. Goggin - well-loved name at Geelong, backed up with a very impressive c.v. as a player - premiership player in 1963, best & fairest awards in '67 and '71, represented the Vics 14 times, captained the state in 1968.
Managed an impressive 279 goals in his 248-game career as a rover.

I/C :

J. Selwood - he is in.

B. Ottens - Mr. September nudges out Sam for the 2nd ruck spot.

T. Quinn - I reckon the selectors of the original team of the century might have short-changed Tommy Quinn ever so slightly by naming him an emergency.
Quinn was recruited from Port Adelaide and made an instant impact as a member of the 1931 premiership side.
He won a two best & fairests in his time at Geelong, including a coveted B&F in a premiership season, in 1937 (his 2nd flag with the Cats).
He played 168 games and kicked 169 goals.

C. Ling - yes.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

 

[Selective Retention]

B: Sanderson Scarlett Harley
HB: Milburn Taylor Enright
C: Corey Bartel Selwood
HF: Johnson Stoneham Davis
F: Ablett Jnr Ablett Snr Chapman
R: Farmer Ling Hocking
I: Ottens Bairstow Couch Riccardi

If they were upfront in their intentions I could have saved the herald sun some time on researching greats from the past

 

[Boxhead_31]

From the article in the Hun today

THE INS AND OUTS
Those who made way from Geelong’s Team of the Century announced in 2001 for GLENN McFARLANE’S greatest Cats team.

OUT OF THE TEAM

DICK GRIGG: 1904-14, ‘21; Games: 194; B&F 1910-11, ‘14. Replaced at half-back by Corey Enright.
JOE SLATER: 1906-14; Games: 108. Replaced at half-back by Joel Corey.
HENRY YOUNG: 1897-1910; Games: 167. Goals: 76; B&F 1905-06. Replaced in forward pocket by Paul Chapman
# ‘JOCKA’ TODD replaced at full-back by Matthew Scarlett.
# LEO TURNER replaced on wing by Jimmy Bartel.
# PETER PIANTO replaced in forward pocket by Gary Ablett Jr.

All three were retained as an emergencies.

OUT OF THE INTERCHANGE

DAVID CLARKE: 1971-74, ‘76-81; Games: 202; Goals: 298; B&F 1971, ‘78-79; All-Aust 1972.
LES HARDIMAN: 1929-37; Games: 135 Goals: 236; B&F 1933; Premierships 1931, ‘37.
ALEC EASON: 1909-15, ‘19-21; Games: 150; Goals: 80; B&F 1915.

The trio replaced by Steve Johnson, Cameron Ling and Joel Selwood.

FROM THE EMERGENCIES

JACK COLLINS: 1929-34, ‘38; Games: 112; Goals: 112; Premiership 1931.
TOM QUINN: 1931-40; Games: 168; Goals: 169 B&F 1936-37; Premierships 1931, ‘37.
CLIFF RANKIN: 1915, ‘19-28; Games: 153; Goals: 400; VFL leading goalkicker 1921; Premiership 1925.

 

[year of the cat]

Wank ! The whole naming on these things was just to have a reason for an expensive night out.

Team of the Cent.? Crap , its best 22 of the Cent. Obviously what was best 50 years ago may not even be VFL standard now , who knows if current players could play back then? Its so subjective.

Ottens will never jump Farmer and Newman yet he may well be as important as both.

Will Bartel replace Goggin or Hocking , probably not yet. Greeves must have been a hell of player but how would he fit into todays team?

In fact , we have no idea if any of these guys would mesh the way this current group has. If we have learnt anything the few years is that indvidual players do not always make up great teams. On talent , on skill , if you put best individuals up , our current group might struggle to have many in the best 22 to ever put the hoops on. We have been around 150 years , after all.

Team of the Century . One may say adding a star would make them better but losing Ablett last year didn't make us worse. The guts of our current group are the best TEAM i have seen in the hoops.

I think you can only rate them according to their performance in their own era. If they were a league champion in their era they have to be considered.

 

[Howisthat]

It will take a generation before the superstars of today are truely acknoweldged for what they have achieved. A lot of us never saw Farmer, Davis, Goggin, Newman, Couch, Clarke, Turner, Smith, Hickey etc.. yet their reputation are held in tact by us because we marvel at their 'legend'.

Imagine in 20 years time, should we not get another flag, the legend of Ling, Batrel, Ablett, Kelly, Ottens, Johnson, Enright, Scarlett, Chapam etc......

3 flags each, Brownlows, Norm Smiths, All Australian....All of these are much more than Farmer, Goggin, Smith, Couch, Clarke, Turner, Neman, Davis, Hickey etc... did.

I guess the question is "Does the Team of the Century represent a team that indivually did things for the club or does it represent a team that was capable of achieving the aim of football, to win premierships".

I acknowledge that St Kilda and Footscray may disagree.

 

[SJ]

An relevant excerpt from the introductory article at the new australianfootball.com:

http://australianfootball.com/articles/view/The+case+for+australianfootball.com/70

The ‘AFL Team of Century’ also turned out to be the ‘Team of the halcyon days’, with some minor concessions to the greats of previous and latter eras. In this case thirteen of the twenty-one selections played senior footy in 1970-71 alone. Not surprisingly there were no representatives who debuted before 1931, except the umpire, the token salute to the first seven decades years of Victorian football!
Most senior clubs in Australia followed the trend, and selected their respective teams of the century. On the whole they were marginally better conceived, but the results were still mixed. They ranged from the sublime, the Geelong team, that was truly representative of every era, even the dark ages, to the ridiculous, the Carlton team, which in effect was the ‘team of the half century’. Perhaps the selectors couldn’t think of any pre-war footballers apart from ‘Soapy’ Vallence—after all, he’d been on the World of Sport panel for many years so they had the TV-era validation they needed. Most other clubs managed to fall somewhere in between, but in the majority of cases very good players of the halcyon days were preferred over great players of earlier eras. As a rule in such matters, it seems the 10th best ruckman in the League in 1974 will always trump the best ruckman in the league in 1914.

http://australianfootball.com/articles/view/The+case+for+australianfootball.com/70

 

[year of the cat]

The fact that the team from 2007-2011 has been the most successful the club has had in its 100+ year history should mean that there is pretty fair representation of recent/current players in any revised team. Scarlett, Ablett jnr, Bartel and Enright are locks I would think now - SJ would be bloody close and Selwood would probably be there by the end of his career.

 

[Hinkley29]

I am a big fan of Couchy, but I don't know why he is rated so highly.

He was a very good one-way midfielder with zero defensive side to his game. His offensive game was elite, but he was exposed in big games by opponents who could play both ways (think of the quality West Coast midfielders who give him a touch up in big games).

I also seem to recall (although I could be wrong), that he had a lull in his career (93,94?) when his position in the team was becoming questioned?

I would take Joel Corey every day of the week over Couchy.

 

[CatTricks]

A little off topic but my side of the 'dynasty'

Lonergan, Scarlett, Milburn
Mackie, Taylor, Enright
Bartel, Corey, Kelly
Johnson, Mooney, Chapman
Rooke, Hawkins, Stokes

Ottens, G.Ablett, Selwood

Ling, Harley, Wojcinski, Varcoe

 

[footscore]

man!
That side is epic

Polly, Ablett jnr, Hocking, Bartel, Goggin and Selwood in the middle and that forward line is simply beyond good.

Who would you kick it to? Wade, Ablett or go the smaller blokes in Jnr and Chappy

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

man!
That side is epic

Polly, Ablett jnr, Hocking, Bartel, Goggin and Selwood in the middle and that forward line is simply beyond good.

Who would you kick it to? Wade, Ablett or go the smaller blokes in Jnr and Chappy

Just kick it to Gaz. That is all. Lol

 

[footscore]

Just kick it to Gaz. That is all. Lol

can you imagine it
One Gazza flying in the air while the other is at his feet waiting for the crumbs (if any) and Wade, I never saw Wade play but I seen the highlights and they say he was as good as any top forward in the game today, brilliant in the air and superb set shot for goal.
Awesome, awesome team assembled

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

can you imagine it
One Gazza flying in the air while the other is at his feet waiting for the crumbs (if any) and Wade, I never saw Wade play but I seen the highlights and they say he was as good as any top forward in the game today, brilliant in the air and superb set shot for goal.
Awesome, awesome team assembled

If only we had the privilege to witness such an occurrence.

 

[Lancelot]

Still funny to read this. "Team of the Century" is for me the 20th century or the 21 century. If you want to call it otherwise it's best called "Best Geelong Cats Team ever". Anyway the team of the century of the 21st century for me is the 2007 Premiers Team. Now just 88 years to go to get the final team of the 21st century

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Bump.

Cursed_Cat gave me the idea this’d be a good discussion again.

 

[Deep]

Do I really underrate Ling? I don’t feel he is even close to belonging in a group that illustrious. I was 14 when he retired and feel that someone like Dasher Milburn is more worthy who also retired when I was 14.

In your photo I’d put Milburn in Corey’s spot and Joel Corey on the bench because position.

 

[Vdubs]

it's hard to quantify because so many of the Geelong TOC contenders finished their careers before many of us began watching football. Or were born.

so we rely on grainy footage and more importantly anecdotal accounts to weigh up the merits of many of these past champions.

but it's still a fun exercise to indulge in so I'll have a crack.

firstly, I put a lot of weight on players who played in successful teams, so if imo it is a line-ball decision between two players as to who makes the cut, I'd go with the one with the most premiership medallions every time.

secondly, as I touched on earlier, I haven't actually watched half of the widely acknowledged contenders for TOC honors - I am a reasonably keen historian of Geelongs fortunes though, and in reading and hearing about past champions and their deeds you start to form opinions about their standing in the Geelong pantheon ...


B :

B. Smith - here's an example of one of those guys whom I never saw play and have seen very little footage of. But the few frames of film, some photos and a ton of testimonials from peers and fans leave me in little doubt that Bernie Smith was a champion player and bloke.
Brownlow medallist in a Premiership year and played in the back-to-back winning teams of '51-'52. Won a couple of best & fairest awards too.

M. Scarlett

G. Todd - won a best & fairest in a premiership year ('31), three best & fairests in total and played in two premierships. Represented Victoria on 12 occasions too.

HB :

C. Enright

R. Hickey - a genuine icon of the club. Played in the 1931 premiership team and captain-coached the 1937 side to a flag.
Won best & fairest awards in 1928 and 1934 and was runner-up in the Brownlow count of 1934. Later coached the team to back-to-back flags.
Represented Victoria 18 times (!), some as captain.

L. Hardiman - I love all the things I have read about Les Hardiman, who in my mind is slightly overlooked when it comes to talking about the greats of Geelong. He was named on the bench in the original team of the century, but for reasons of team balance I am starting him at half-back.
Hardiman played 135 games for the Pivotonians and kicked 236 goals.
He had an older brother, Pete, who also played 160 games with Geelong.
But from all accounts, Les was absolute class.
There are a couple of great photos of him in full flight, high up in the air taking hangers.
He played in the '31 & '37 premiership teams, and by captain-coach Reg Hickey's account he was probably the equivalent of the Norm Smith medal winner in '37; starting forward before going into defense to quell a dangerous Ron Todd. Won a best & fairest in 1933 and represented Victoria 5 times.
Pipped out Geoff Williams and Darren Milburn for this spot.

C :

J. Bartel - beats out some stiff comp in Mick Turner (245 games, 285 goals), Peter Riccardi (288 games, 286 goals) and Mick's dad Leo Turner, who was a vital weapon in the '51-'52 Premiership sides.
You could argue that the others were more traditional wingman, particularly Mick and Ricco, but Jimmy is nothing if not versatile, and you could not seriously argue against his inclusion in the starting 18 imo.

E. Greeves - we've had some great centremen over the years, but this guy's contribution to the fabric of the club can't be overlooked or undersold.
Played in the 1925 and 1931 premiership sides.
Won the inaugural Brownlow medal in 1924, then was runner-up in '25, '26 and '28 !
Represented Victoria 7 times and was renowned for his superb footskills, and not just in Australia.

B. Davis - known as a half-forward flanker but for team balance he lines up on a wing, where his blistering pace would make the transition pretty simple.
Judging by his goal tally (149 from 189 games) I always got the impression he played up the ground quite a bit where he could exploit his pace more.
Played in the back-to-back flag winning sides of '51'-51, won a best & fairest in 1957 and was named both Victorian and All-Australian captain in 1958. He retired in '58 while still at the top of his game.

HF :

G. Ablett snr. - sadly one of the few players selected in this side without a premiership medal to his name. The best player I have ever seen.

F. Flanagan - pips enigmatic Jack Collins at centre half-forward, a position we have traditionally struggled to produce stars in.
Flanagan however was a gun - captaining the '51-'52 premiership sides and playing for Victoria 23 times, captain-coaching the side in 1952.
He won a best & fairest in 1949 and was runner-up in the Brownlow count of 1950.

S. Johnson - anyone who doubts his credentials only need consider this : during the clubs current golden era, Johnson has probably been the one forward line constant. By the time he has finished his c.v. be very impressive, and is already bulging with honors; 3-time All-Australian and 3-time premiership player for starters, one of those netting him a Norm Smith medal.

F :

P. Chapman - nudges out the exciting Peter Pianto by virtue of playing more games and having one extra flag. Also, Chappy's efforts in our winning Grand Finals have been uniformly very good-to-excellent.

D. Wade - won a flag in '63, a best & fairest from full-forward in '69, 3-time Coleman medal winner, 7 time Victorian rep. Over 800 goals in the hoops and over 1000 in total.

G. Ablett jnr. - deserves a spot.

R :

G. Farmer - Polly would just about be the first picked, as much for his services to football as to Geelong.

G. Hocking - no flags for Buddha, but he bled for Geelong and was a star of his era, winning 4 best & fairests and 4 All-Australian selections.

B. Goggin - well-loved name at Geelong, backed up with a very impressive c.v. as a player - premiership player in 1963, best & fairest awards in '67 and '71, represented the Vics 14 times, captained the state in 1968.
Managed an impressive 279 goals in his 248-game career as a rover.

I/C :

J. Selwood - he is in.

B. Ottens - Mr. September nudges out Sam for the 2nd ruck spot.

T. Quinn - I reckon the selectors of the original team of the century might have short-changed Tommy Quinn ever so slightly by naming him an emergency.
Quinn was recruited from Port Adelaide and made an instant impact as a member of the 1931 premiership side.
He won a two best & fairests in his time at Geelong, including a coveted B&F in a premiership season, in 1937 (his 2nd flag with the Cats).
He played 168 games and kicked 169 goals.

C. Ling - yes.

Love your team, research and comments.
BUT,
Mick Turner is a must -have in any Cats TOTC imho.
Represented Victoria on several occasions with the great Robbie Flower and played superbly.
His performance v Pies in a losing prelim was a joy to watch, and single-handedly kept us in that game , on the wing, with a bag of goals. The ultimate big occasion player, very loyal, as quick as any player I've ever seen at Geelong until Wojo.