EDFL Premier Division

[shagshouli]

I feel for anyone moving to Melbourne (from the country or interstate) for work reasons and being told "sorry, cant play here champ. Points are full".
Bureaucratic madness.

As mentioned earlier, elite kids from the lower clubs will be recruited to the top flight clubs from U12 age to get them to be future 'local' players.
Glenroy, Jacana, Roxy Park, Taylors area (new home development areas) will be targeted. [if not already happening].

Mark my words. The prophet has spoken. 100% guaranteed!!!!

 

[Turbos mail]

Some more information regarding the points system:

Analysis shows three EDFL clubs have produced more than half the AFL, TAC Cup and state league talent from the league as blanket player points cap is set
October 28, 2015 3:40pm
Chris CavanaghMoonee Valley Leader



AN ANALYSIS of AFL, TAC Cup and state league playing lists for 2015 has revealed more than half of the elite talent produced from the Essendon District Football League has come from three clubs.



Of 128 former EDFL juniors who took part in elite talent systems this year, Aberfeldie had 25 players, Keilor had 24 and Essendon Doutta Stars had 18 — representing 52 per cent of the total pool.

Greenvale came in with 14 players while the next best clubs were Strathmore and West Coburg with just seven each.

Nine EDFL clubs did not have any players in elite systems this year.

The figures show an uneven playing field for EDFL clubs under the new player points system which will be introduced next year.

Players who have been in elite talent systems are worth six, five or four points under the system unless they return to a club where they have played juniors, in which case they are allocated the minimum of one point.

As revealed first by Leader yesterday, the EDFL has confirmed it will be setting a blanket points cap of 50 for all its clubs next year — the maximum allowed under AFL Victoria’s statewide system.

“The EDFL has always been a supporter of the introduction of a player points system,” EDFL general manager Marc Turri said in a statement.

“While there have been some minor aspects of AFL Victoria’s Player Points Policy that led us to seek further clarification and discussion with AFL Victoria, we accept the policy and we look forward to its implementation in Season 2016.”

The announcement by the league came less than 24 hours after an independent report, obtained by Leader, was circulated to all EDFL presidents on Monday night which suggested a blanket points cap would do nothing to equalise the competition and added “if a league gets it wrong at the start then it will take them years to make the appropriate adjustment to get an even playing field for its clubs”.

FORMER EDFL JUNIORS IN ELITE TALENT SYSTEMS IN 2015

Aberfeldie: 25

Keilor: 24

Essendon Doutta Stars: 18

Greenvale: 14

Strathmore: 7

West Coburg: 7

Pascoe Vale: 6

Craigieburn: 4

Hillside: 4

Maribyrnong Park: 3

Airport West: 3

Oak Park: 3

Moonee Valley: 3

Hadfield: 2

West Meadows: 2

Northern Saints: 1

Roxy Park: 1

Avondale Heights: 1

Total: 128

 

[Turbos mail]

I feel for anyone moving to Melbourne (from the country or interstate) for work reasons and being told "sorry, cant play here champ. Points are full".
Bureaucratic madness.

As mentioned earlier, elite kids from the lower clubs will be recruited to the top flight clubs from U12 age to get them to be future 'local' players.
Glenroy, Jacana, Roxy Park, Taylors area (new home development areas) will be targeted. [if not already happening].

Mark my words. The prophet has spoken. 100% guaranteed!!!!

Well said. I don't necessarily agree with players changing clubs within the same competition/division or players moving between leagues until it's for the right reasons but transferring for more $ is not good for local footy.
But I fully agree there should be some reduction in points if a player is moving to Melb for a genuine reason like work, family etc or if the player has no club to go back to. Maybe it's a junior only club, or the club has folded.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Footy man, don't think it's just 2 clubs unhappy as I'm sure some div1&2 clubs will struggle to stay competitive with the points. It's just that Pacco have some people who are willing to look beyond 2016 as they intend to be competitive clubs for years to come. A lot of clubs will struggle for 8-12 home growns in there best starting 22. I'm sure it's the aim of most clubs to have this, but depends on a few things:
-what division your club is playing!
-Is the homegrown loyal to the club or wants to pay for money. I dont begrudge anyone as sometimes it can be they don't have a job, or a good paying one, so want the extra 200 to change clubs.
-relocation so it's a travel thing
-they change clubs to play a specific position maybe!

Knowitall, I think the player ratings were not discussed by anyone outside afl.
-even if a player wants to play higher footy (premier) they attract the same points as someone moving over from say NFL div1. 3 points Why is this?
-a standard contract is usually for 2 years however if you move clubs within 3 years you attract an extra point. Stupid!
-you win a B&F or club goal kicking and it attracts another point. I don't like this either so a good local footballer is now worth 4 points and maybe 5. Stupid!

I'm not impressed with the player ratings as it needs some fine tuning. Plus some clubs with lower junior numbers require some assistance to stay competitive.
I also think the EDFL club areas are smaller than some other leagues but I haven't fully researched it. Some areas like Craigieburn, Greenvale are expanding with housing development, and the NFL clubs seem to have large areas compared to say a Pacco, Avondale, Marby Park, Moonee Valley, Keilor Park etc.

I suppose we can debate this forever and I do respect your views.

I don't understand how all metro clubs have been given 50 points, that have easy access to kids coming through juniors comps but teams in the mallee have less points, when they are struggling to field a junior team each year and have the pressure of these kids having to move away for work and study.
I agree with you turbo on a couple of points you raised in that each team should be allowed one player who is a marquee player who is outside the points system but perhaps has to stay with the club a minimum 2 years. I also agree in relation to that not all premier league team should have the same points, with teams having more junior sides should have slightly less points.
The points system has been put in place to try and keep suburban and country footy alive and stop footy mercaniries from robbing clubs that are desperate to field teams and are paying overs to get players.
In my opinion the points system should be worked on populations of males between 14-34, the number of junior clubs they have at their disposal.
You would think that common sense would have div 1 metro clubs between 25-30 points with the opportunity of having 1 marquee player per side that is not allocated into the points, div 2 and 3 30-35 points, Regional cities with a large university eg Bendigo, Geelong, Ballarat, Albury/Wodonga 30 points, and then the teams with the smallest populations and located furtherest away from Melbourne and these regional centres should be allocated 50 points. Now if this was in place there would be no need for a salary cap and I would imagine this would have a greater capacity to not only level the playing fields in competitions throughout the state, it would also equalise player payments and equalise recruiting through the whole state. At present whilst it appears a good idea in theory it could end up like the free agency in the afl where the stronger clubs continue to get stronger and the gap within competitions widens, which is no good for anyone

 

[Joey Montoro]

Paul Chapman coach of Werribee Districts just heard.

 

[bigj639]

Nah, the points system is punishing bad clubs. Clubs who don't put time into juniors. Clubs who recruit duds who disappear the following year. Clubs who irresponsibly go out and drive the market up.

Good clubs will develop their kids, good clubs will get their 4 or 5 recruits every year and retain them.

That Premier club which has contacted every man imaginable for 2016 and offered blokes they've never seen play absurd amounts of money to secure early signatures will be in a panic because now they've got all these signatures but not enough points to fit them all into their side. They'll have a strong reserves side though - if they all stick around long enough.

that is complete rubbish....it punishes good clubs for being just that, better than everybody else. What pisses me off the most is this ridiculous assertion that everything has to be equal. Since when did the world change so that it has to be the same for everybody. Why are players punished and stopped from selling their skills to the highest bidder. Would anybody stand for than in any other workplace?

 

[bangfrom50]

that is complete rubbish....it punishes good clubs for being just that, better than everybody else. What pisses me off the most is this ridiculous assertion that everything has to be equal. Since when did the world change so that it has to be the same for everybody. Why are players punished and stopped from selling their skills to the highest bidder. Would anybody stand for than in any other workplace?

Workplaces are purely there to make a a Profit for owners, therefore employ individuals where it is expected they will do what they can to get best out-comes for themselves in regards to pay and entitlements.
LOCAL FOOTY IS NOT a WORKPLACE! Local Clubs are non-profit organisations purely there as a community service.

 

[BlueJet]

that is complete rubbish....it punishes good clubs for being just that, better than everybody else. What pisses me off the most is this ridiculous assertion that everything has to be equal. Since when did the world change so that it has to be the same for everybody. Why are players punished and stopped from selling their skills to the highest bidder. Would anybody stand for than in any other workplace?

How? Abers, Greenvale, Strathmore and Keilor will still be the strongest clubs due to their ability to develop their own juniors and also foster loyalty of players recruited to their club. Funnily enough, the good clubs will be just as strong..
It's the clubs with minimal junior representation that recruit the majority of their respective sides that'll struggle.

 

[local footy fan]

some of the people on here who are complaining here the loudest must be from the stronger clubs. Now I might be In the minority but I am looking at this in a positive way, firstly in the future it will level out the playing field over time. Secondly it will stop these footy sluts selling their wares to the highest bidder giving nothing back to the club and taking off the next season to the next highest bid. Thirdly it will force the senior clubs to work more closely with the junior clubs to develop a good culture from seniors to aus kick level and it will be theses clubs that are successful . If there is a good family and skill based culture that helps guide and improve the young boys and girls who play for the club it will not matter who comes knocking for your talent as they will be invested in their home club.

 

[Turbos mail]

Paul Chapman coach of Werribee Districts just heard.

Looks like Strathmore missed out. Is McIntosh going to Strathmore as reading reports his playing in Tassie maybe.
Still hear Strathmore will field a good side and b

 

[Turbos mail]

Pacco moving along nicely for next season. It looks like they are building on the back of last seasons improvement.

Any developments at Abers as whispers Lynch looking around. Surely he wouldn't leave after his comp medal win this year. "If true" I don't understand why but his known to move clubs if my memory serves me well. Hear an old club is chasing him hard.. Anyone confirm if I'm correct or his resigned back at Abers..

 

[Oddballoddball]

Workplaces are purely there to make a a Profit for owners, therefore employ individuals where it is expected they will do what they can to get best out-comes for themselves in regards to pay and entitlements.
LOCAL FOOTY IS NOT a WORKPLACE! Local Clubs are non-profit organisations purely there as a community service.

Bang while I like your work on here, you seriously cannot think that clubs aren't looking to turn a big profit season to season to pay for their new recruits the next season. At the end of the day, EVERYONE'S objective is to win a flag, therefore you need to turn profits to make that possible. So in essence it is like a workplace. Granted the bigger clubs pull the bigger sponsors to make flags attainable, but to think clubs are "not for profit" these days is being very naive and stupid. It's the sole reason why parents are charged up to $500 a season for their kid to play junior footy. So these clubs can turn a profit.

 

[hard at it]

Bang while I like your work on here, you seriously cannot think that clubs aren't looking to turn a big profit season to season to pay for their new recruits the next season. At the end of the day, EVERYONE'S objective is to win a flag, therefore you need to turn profits to make that possible. So in essence it is like a workplace. Granted the bigger clubs pull the bigger sponsors to make flags attainable, but to think clubs are "not for profit" these days is being very naive and stupid. It's the sole reason why parents are charged up to $500 a season for their kid to play junior footy. So these clubs can turn a profit.

Mate have you seen a bigger clubs annual report to back that up. Plenty I've seen over the years may show a profit between 4 - 20,000 with the 20 k an extra ordinary result.
Yes budget for profit , don't overpay hacks but reality is it's community footy at community clubs.
The value in $500 for juniors depends on what's on offer , is it including jumper for example , do the kids get slugged more on match day etc.
I'd also raise legit costs as first aid equipment, footies because like everything they keep going up on cost
Anyway just a thought mate

 

[Oddballoddball]

Mate have you seen a bigger clubs annual report to back that up. Plenty I've seen over the years may show a profit between 4 - 20,000 with the 20 k an extra ordinary result.
Yes budget for profit , don't overpay hacks but reality is it's community footy at community clubs.
The value in $500 for juniors depends on what's on offer , is it including jumper for example , do the kids get slugged more on match day etc.
I'd also raise legit costs as first aid equipment, footies because like everything they keep going up on cost
Anyway just a thought mate

Mate i understand what you're saying but you take an example like; u/10s- for example keilor, $500 per kid and they have 4 sides? 20 kids per side? That's 80 children that brings in $40k. Times that by 5 age groups and we are talking serious money. Take out jumpers which are cheaper now than they have been ever. Regos, umpires and first aids aren't that dear compared to what they should be. The committees and volunteers do not get paid for what they do on match days. Bulk buy footys they cost next to nothing. Say you make $15k per grade and a club like keilor is making conservately $75k just from juniors (including u/18s). I bet I'm not far off the mark. Then you have sponsors who want to be known throughout the EDFL because as much as people want to deny it, local footy has become all about business and how much the clubs and said sponsors can get back for the money invested. There used to be a time where people were happy to play for the club they loved but since the early '00s players have realised how much money can be earned and therefore if clubs want to keep up and not be yesterday's news they have to keep up as well. Therefore clubs will always offer overs to players if it means that next year and the year after the bigger clubs don't become irrelevant due to not wanting to spend the money made from the previous year to hopefully be the club that is the one club everyone wants to be like. Like it or not, the days of local footy clubs being community based, especially in premier, is over. The $ talks and now unfortunately, the players know exactly that

 

[hard at it]

Mate i understand what you're saying but you take an example like; u/10s- for example keilor, $500 per kid and they have 4 sides? 20 kids per side? That's 80 children that brings in $40k. Times that by 5 age groups and we are talking serious money. Take out jumpers which are cheaper now than they have been ever. Regos, umpires and first aids aren't that dear compared to what they should be. The committees and volunteers do not get paid for what they do on match days. Bulk buy footys they cost next to nothing. Say you make $15k per grade and a club like keilor is making conservately $75k just from juniors (including u/18s). I bet I'm not far off the mark. Then you have sponsors who want to be known throughout the EDFL because as much as people want to deny it, local footy has become all about business and how much the clubs and said sponsors can get back for the money invested. There used to be a time where people were happy to play for the club they loved but since the early '00s players have realised how much money can be earned and therefore if clubs want to keep up and not be yesterday's news they have to keep up as well. Therefore clubs will always offer overs to players if it means that next year and the year after the bigger clubs don't become irrelevant due to not wanting to spend the money made from the previous year to hopefully be the club that is the one club everyone wants to be like. Like it or not, the days of local footy clubs being community based, especially in premier, is over. The $ talks and now unfortunately, the players know exactly that

I agree with a lot of what u say but the bigger clubs have bigger turnover and generally bigger bills that come with it
Point is if a club raises 300 k and spends $ 298 k they make 2 grand
I don't think to many clubs are stashing away plenty of cash that's the point I'm making
The spend what they can.
Anyway accounting a boring subject , new recruits news is pretty quiet !!!

 

[local footy fan]

Mate i understand what you're saying but you take an example like; u/10s- for example keilor, $500 per kid and they have 4 sides? 20 kids per side? That's 80 children that brings in $40k. Times that by 5 age groups and we are talking serious money. Take out jumpers which are cheaper now than they have been ever. Regos, umpires and first aids aren't that dear compared to what they should be. The committees and volunteers do not get paid for what they do on match days. Bulk buy footys they cost next to nothing. Say you make $15k per grade and a club like keilor is making conservately $75k just from juniors (including u/18s). I bet I'm not far off the mark. Then you have sponsors who want to be known throughout the EDFL because as much as people want to deny it, local footy has become all about business and how much the clubs and said sponsors can get back for the money invested. There used to be a time where people were happy to play for the club they loved but since the early '00s players have realised how much money can be earned and therefore if clubs want to keep up and not be yesterday's news they have to keep up as well. Therefore clubs will always offer overs to players if it means that next year and the year after the bigger clubs don't become irrelevant due to not wanting to spend the money made from the previous year to hopefully be the club that is the one club everyone wants to be like. Like it or not, the days of local footy clubs being community based, especially in premier, is over. The $ talks and now unfortunately, the players know exactly that

Odd ball you make some good points but I think clubs are happy to just break even here are a few rough figures for you a set of jumpers costs around 4k for juniors per team and around 5-10k depending on size and numbers for seniors and seconds also the amount of colours in your jumper ,then you might have one or two u18's or a third senior side you could be looking at a total bill of 100k plus then you have the up keep of the facilities roughly 5 to 10 k depending on the council and taking into account weather you one, two or 3 ovals then there's lighting in winter which is not cheap not sure of the cost but again it depends on the number of lights and ovals
in use

 

[EDFL knowitall]

Odd ball you make some good points but I think clubs are happy to just break even here are a few rough figures for you a set of jumpers costs around 4k for juniors per team and around 5-10k depending on size and numbers for seniors and seconds also the amount of colours in your jumper ,then you might have one or two u18's or a third senior side you could be looking at a total bill of 100k plus then you have the up keep of the facilities roughly 5 to 10 k depending on the council and taking into account weather you one, two or 3 ovals then there's lighting in winter which is not cheap not sure of the cost but again it depends on the number of lights and ovals
in use

I think you figured are wrong there. Jumpers for juniors cost about 500-700 per side. The 4K your talking about is 160 bucks a jumper at 25 jumpers. That's more than an AFL jumper and we all know their mark up.
As per lighting I think you'll find that the clubs pay a standard rate to the council. So u don't pay for lighting. It part of you rates. That covers water, electricity, ground up keep and bin collection.

 

[local footy fan]

I think you figured are wrong there. Jumpers for juniors cost about 500-700 per side. The 4K your talking about is 160 bucks a jumper at 25 jumpers. That's more than an AFL jumper and we all know their mark up.
As per lighting I think you'll find that the clubs pay a standard rate to the council. So u don't pay for lighting. It part of you rates. That covers water, electricity, ground up keep and bin collection.

I the figures I talked about with the jumper cost was around that mark as the club I was involved had to pay for the set up and printing cost as well as the jumper cost because they had changed the clubs' major sponsor they did have a much cheaper quote but had no choice but to go through the league's official jumper supplier and as for lighting bill it depends on the council

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

From Carlton, Essendon, North Melbourne & Western Bulldogs, all AFL clubs located around the Essendon district. A good majority of players from these clubs choose to live in and around Essendon. From these 4 clubs so far this year there has been 36 players delisted or retired, many whos jnr club would be interstate or in country victoria but they now call Essendon, Moonee Ponds or Ascot Vale home... The points system is a huge disincentive to those players to continue playing footy at local level and all it will do is bring down the overall standard of the competition.

Does the VAFA have the same points system? I am assuming not because they dont "pay" players... They will end up the big winners out of this as they will still have the ability to offer employment as an incentive to these players coming out of the AFL system.

 

[EDFL knowitall]

From Carlton, Essendon, North Melbourne & Western Bulldogs, all AFL clubs located around the Essendon district. A good majority of players from these clubs choose to live in and around Essendon. From these 4 clubs so far this year there has been 36 players delisted or retired, many whos jnr club would be interstate or in country victoria but they now call Essendon, Moonee Ponds or Ascot Vale home... The points system is a huge disincentive to those players to continue playing footy at local level and all it will do is bring down the overall standard of the competition.

Does the VAFA have the same points system? I am assuming not because they dont "pay" players... They will end up the big winners out of this as they will still have the ability to offer employment as an incentive to these players coming out of the AFL system.

The VAFA should have the points system cause the fall under AFL Vic but I'm not 100%.

 

[bigj639]

some of the people on here who are complaining here the loudest must be from the stronger clubs. Now I might be In the minority but I am looking at this in a positive way, firstly in the future it will level out the playing field over time. Secondly it will stop these footy sluts selling their wares to the highest bidder giving nothing back to the club and taking off the next season to the next highest bid. Thirdly it will force the senior clubs to work more closely with the junior clubs to develop a good culture from seniors to aus kick level and it will be theses clubs that are successful . If there is a good family and skill based culture that helps guide and improve the young boys and girls who play for the club it will not matter who comes knocking for your talent as they will be invested in their home club.

Why do we think a level playing field is going to enhance the competition. I know, lets not play for a premiership lets hand out participation medals to all the players...FFS its not supposed to be even its supposed to be competitive. We have clearly moved beyond community based clubs playing for the love of the game, its now a hugely successful competition with massive amounts of money at stake. SO why make it fair and equal? Since when did we decide life was fair. IF life was fair then I would be the meat in a Halle Berry - Jennifer Aniston sex sandwich.

 

[Penski]

The VAFA should have the points system cause the fall under AFL Vic but I'm not 100%.

The VAFA doesn't have the points system.

 

[local footy fan]

Why do we think a level playing field is going to enhance the competition. I know, lets not play for a premiership lets hand out participation medals to all the players...FFS its not supposed to be even its supposed to be competitive. We have clearly moved beyond community based clubs playing for the love of the game, its now a hugely successful competition with massive amounts of money at stake. SO why make it fair and equal? Since when did we decide life was fair. IF life was fair then I would be the meat in a Halle Berry - Jennifer Aniston sex sandwich.

Bigj639 man you have missed the point footy at all levels is in trouble with participation levels nobody wants to play footy and get the SH1t kicked out of them each week .All leagues need teams to be in with a chance to win Premierships look at what the AFL is doing with their equalization so clubs are not always seller dwellers .If we follow you rule of thumb we will end up with about four clubs in div 1 and the rest folding or refusing to go up there is a lot of people chasing the sponsorship dollars and not all clubs are located in locations that can draw in big dollars . It is hard enough to get people in your door as a volunteer with out the burden of making them try and raise half a million dollars + each year to be competitive

 

[BlueJet]

Bigj639 man you have missed the point footy at all levels is in trouble with participation levels nobody wants to play footy and get the SH1t kicked out of them each week .All leagues need teams to be in with a chance to win Premierships look at what the AFL is doing with their equalization so clubs are not always seller dwellers .If we follow you rule of thumb we will end up with about four clubs in div 1 and the rest folding or refusing to go up there is a lot of people chasing the sponsorship dollars and not all clubs are located in locations that can draw in big dollars . It is hard enough to get people in your door as a volunteer with out the burden of making them try and raise half a million dollars + each year to be competitive

He's not alone though, many people have a short sighted viewpoint as they only think about the league that they're affiliated with when discussing the ramifications of a points system/or salary cap.
There are plenty of clubs and leagues across the state that are struggling in the current climate where an arms race of clubs stockpiling ex afl/vfl/tac cup talent is common place.
Reality is despite the money thrown around, it is still local footy and blokes should still be able to roll down to their local club on a Saturday arvo and have a kick with their mates.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Bigj639 man you have missed the point footy at all levels is in trouble with participation levels nobody wants to play footy and get the SH1t kicked out of them each week .All leagues need teams to be in with a chance to win Premierships look at what the AFL is doing with their equalization so clubs are not always seller dwellers .If we follow you rule of thumb we will end up with about four clubs in div 1 and the rest folding or refusing to go up there is a lot of people chasing the sponsorship dollars and not all clubs are located in locations that can draw in big dollars . It is hard enough to get people in your door as a volunteer with out the burden of making them try and raise half a million dollars + each year to be competitive

Since 2008, 6 different clubs have won flags in the EDFL..the perception the EDFL is not an even comp is a myth and every single club playing A grade has played finals in the last decade.