Team of Champions (All Australian) vs Champion Team (Hawthorn)

[#gosaintas]

Almost three months later and the mindless hatred and jealousy still goes on unabated. I wonder if these mindless trolls just sit on Bigfooty all day, since they have nothing better to do with their lives, hitting 'refresh' and waiting for any new Hawthorn related thread to spew their braindead hatred on.

Nobody is saying the Hawks aren't a good side - you don't finish 3rd with a 16 / 6 W/L record if you're a poor side. Most just don't think you could beat an AA side. No shame in that.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

IF the AA team came together for a one-off training camp and then exhibition game for the (insert favourite charity) Cup, vs the Premiers I think it would be much closer. Once the AA team starts to gel sheer talent will see them win most games.

Presuming parity could be artificially created, then the issue would be one of timing. Clubs won't want to play the game during the season, if played pre-season then clubs could be substantially different, and likely the premiers will be 2-3 weeks behind everyone else in preparation, and if played after the Grand Final, it further delays the premiers holiday (and thus return), along with either delaying all surgeries, or (more likely) opening up the "injury" loophole for players to opt out.

There's enough money to make it worthwhile for the players (eg 100k per player for one game), but logistics makes it all but impossible.

 

[MC_9]

I think plenty of people are missing the point of this thread.

No one is arguing that Hawthorn has equal or even close to the talent of the All Stars team (it doesn't have to be Hawthorn, it could be any of the recent premiers).

It is case of systems vs talent. It would be a very interesting exercise. A great team that has finely tuned their game plan for a number of year, resulting in 3 premierships. Versus a team that has a huge amount of talent, but only 2 weeks to prepare and form game plan. It would show just how important coaching is vs talent.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I think plenty of people are missing the point of this thread.

No one is arguing that Hawthorn has equal or even close to the talent of the All Stars team (it doesn't have to be Hawthorn, it could be any of the recent premiers).

It is case of systems vs talent. It would be a very interesting exercise. A great team that has finely tuned their game plan for a number of year, resulting in 3 premierships. Versus a team that has a huge amount of talent, but only 2 weeks to prepare and form game plan. It would show just how important coaching is vs talent.

Yes there was a similar question that focussed on systems v talent earlier in the year over whether the current day Melbourne team would beat Hawks 88-89. Opinion was split with those saying the modern game plan of Melb would be too much.for the more individually talented Hawks

 

[RUNVS]

I think plenty of people are missing the point of this thread.

No one is arguing that Hawthorn has equal or even close to the talent of the All Stars team (it doesn't have to be Hawthorn, it could be any of the recent premiers).

It is case of systems vs talent. It would be a very interesting exercise. A great team that has finely tuned their game plan for a number of year, resulting in 3 premierships. Versus a team that has a huge amount of talent, but only 2 weeks to prepare and form game plan. It would show just how important coaching is vs talent.

Yes that is precisely what I was asking. Hawthorn is the best side over the past 3 years, I don't think anyone would argue against that, and they have an amazing system. The AA side is a lot more talented than Hawthorn though, no shame in that, but 2 weeks really is not a lot of time to gel together as a team. I find the idea of the AA side vs Hawthorn to be really interesting as the AA side is definitely more talented but they have no experience of playing together. I just wonder if they system of Hawthorn could overcome the talent of the AA side (not that the AA side would not have a system, it just would not be one that every player would have practiced).

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Yes there was a similar question that focussed on systems v talent earlier in the year over whether the current day Melbourne team would beat Hawks 88-89. Opinion was split with those saying the modern game plan of Melb would be too much.for the more individually talented Hawks

To make sure i understand correctly - there was support for the current muppets running around for the MFC who cannot kick a score to save themselves nor hit the side of a truck to defeat one of the most skilled running sides of alltime?

 

[Bombermania]

Coaches would end up resting players because they arent going to delay end of season operations.

It would be just like State of Origin games.

Considering the game is richer today than it was in the Origin days maybe the clubs could be given a bonus based on the number of players who made the AA side whilst the premiers receive double the prizemoney for winning the flag.

 

[Stevi_Tigers]

all star team has to much firepower you cant keep kennedy,riewoldt,cameron,stringer,wingard and betts quiet

 

[#gosaintas]

all star team has to much firepower you cant keep kennedy,riewoldt,cameron,stringer,wingard and betts quiet

They could just chuck little Rioli back there - he'd run around, tackle and harass, generally just be a low possession but high love factor dynamo. That'd sort them all out.

 

[Kickin_Goals]

To make sure i understand correctly - there was support for the current muppets running around for the MFC who cannot kick a score to save themselves nor hit the side of a truck to defeat one of the most skilled running sides of alltime?

Not even the current muppets, they were worse at the time the thread was about. 17th on the ladder I think

 

[Stevi_Tigers]

They could just chuck little Rioli back there - he'd run around, tackle and harass, generally just be a low possession but high love factor dynamo. That'd sort them all out.

lel hey bwuce

 

[Gavin Excell]

To make sure i understand correctly - there was support for the current muppets running around for the MFC who cannot kick a score to save themselves nor hit the side of a truck to defeat one of the most skilled running sides of alltime?

Yes. The argument was that the Dees with their fitness and modern running and interchange patterns would bamboozle the 1980s side. It was an interesting proposition

 

[TheFourPillars]

Yes. The argument was that the Dees with their fitness and modern running and interchange patterns would bamboozle the 1980s side. It was an interesting proposition

I would agree if they were more skilled because as i see it they wouldn't be able to walk in the last as that immortal side would have pummelled them into the dirt by the end of 3rd

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Yes. The argument was that the Dees with their fitness and modern running and interchange patterns would bamboozle the 1980s side. It was an interesting proposition

Interesting is underselling that proposition like you could never believe. I will find that thread and read with great interest and ignore all who profess to believe...!!!

 

[RUNVS]

Interesting is underselling that proposition like you could never believe. I will find that thread and read with great interest and ignore all who profess to believe...!!!

Here it is

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/hawthorn-1989-vs-melbourne-2014.1070699/

I actually created that thread as well though I was a bit surprised when someone brought up the similarities between the ideas presented in both threads as I did not think about that link until that point.

 

[Bombermania]

Here it is

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/hawthorn-1989-vs-melbourne-2014.1070699/

I actually created that thread as well though I was a bit surprised when someone brought up the similarities between the ideas presented in both threads as I did not think about that link until that point.

With that match up I would favor the Hawks as that 1989 side could run all day and had a very strong forward line so whilst I understand the argument about how the game has changed, you only need to watch some of the history month on Fox to see this but even so the things the good sides did well then they still do well now just faster, plus the 1989 back line is one of the best back lines I have seen, it not only was hard to break down but it created run.

 

[Sixpence]

Bizarre GF team. Only 2 West Coast players turned up.

Swap Hale out for someone if you want but even our sub had a better game than 90% of the Coasters.

If you're selecting the team based on quality of players, then it's more than fair.

 

[Gavin Excell]

With that match up I would favor the Hawks as that 1989 side could run all day and had a very strong forward line so whilst I understand the argument about how the game has changed, you only need to watch some of the history month on Fox to see this but even so the things the good sides did well then they still do well now just faster, plus the 1989 back line is one of the best back lines I have seen, it not only was hard to break down but it created run.

Would modern day dees running back to clog up space including the (then) unheard of tagging and obstructing their backmen have thrown Hawks into disarray?

 

[Pessimistic]

Would modern day dees running back to clog up space including the (then) unheard of tagging and obstructing their backmen have thrown Hawks into disarray?

The discussion came down to rule interpretation, preparation and motivation.

That same hawks team got pantsed by an adelaide team on debut who were mostly not vfl players but had surprise and motivation over the all conquering hawks

Huge amounts of coaching time are spent analysing opponents etc. an unknown is different.

The hypothetical of two teams 25 years apart playing each other is wild enough, but to be equal the teams should be allowed a few weeks of watching each other

I read somewhere when the hawls played glenferrie, they tried to leave hudson one out in the forward half. That suggests the rest of the players were in hawthorns back half, a ground half the size of wavereley. Is that flooding?


Also im told education departments keep records of times of kids in athletics. On average the kids of a couple of decades ago beat todays kids times hands down. So while the elite is more athletic, the general population is not

 

[Gavin Excell]

^^

Its an impossible argument i guess.

Just to add to all this, we often hear that teams must improve each year to be competitive. If thats accepted logic does it therefore follow that Hawthorn as the most recent premier is the greatest of all time but will be usurped by next years winner?

 

[Pessimistic]

Most years the AA team would beat the premiers, given the right motivation and preparation (both teams equal)

In some years the premier was strong and there have been some Puzzling AA selections.



that year when geelong had 9 AAs would be interesting. 2007

another puzzling selection. Coleman medalist Jarryd Roughead selected in a pocket not FF

 

[Hawkk]

They could just chuck little Rioli back there - he'd run around, tackle and harass, generally just be a low possession but high love factor dynamo. That'd sort them all out.

The same Rioli that has as many Norm Smith medals as the St Kilda FC

 

[Donakebab]

Also im told education departments keep records of times of kids in athletics. On average the kids of a couple of decades ago beat todays kids times hands down. So while the elite is more athletic, the general population is not

Relevance? We're talking about semi professionals vs full time elite athletes.

 

[Pessimistic]

Relevance? We're talking about semi professionals vs full time elite athletes.

Its a nice counterpoint to the (probably correct) assumption that todays athletes are more athletic. its a product of elite streaming not the general improvement in heath and welfare

 

[blue harvest]

Hawks to win, but only because they get to play at their home ground without earning it.