Who are the flag contenders?

[little graham]

Indeed, and by that logic we exclude Adelaide from top four predictions too, as they lost to North, who nearly lost to Melbourne who lost to Essendon.

But noone was saying Adelaide were top 4 so that makes your retort rather petty

 

[Coalface]

But noone was saying Adelaide were top 4 so that makes your retort rather petty

Adelaide are mentioned in the OP for starters, another couple of mentions in this thread that they might be contenders and plenty of people rating them in other similar threads. But... Adelaide's premiership chances weren't the point, I was highlighting your poor logic.

I guess Hawthorn should have been ruled out of flag contention last year after losing to Essendon in round 2?

 

[little graham]

. I was highlighting your poor logic.

You need to re read the thread. I questioned a posters drug use when they claimed Adelaide were one of the 'contendors".

You look pretty silly.

 

[Coalface]

You need to re read the thread. I questioned a posters drug use when they claimed Adelaide were one of the 'contendors".

You look pretty silly.

Again... my retort wasn't in relation to Adelaide's chances mate. Keep up.

 

[Benny78]

WC, Dogs and North are all far more likely of winning 4 finals than Geelong.

Why?

 

[1990crow]

Why?

Just not quite good enough as a team. Will be relying on Danger and Selwood too much.

 

[Benny78]

Just not quite good enough as a team. Will be relying on Danger and Selwood too much.

Most those players almost won a prelim two and a half years ago. Finished 3rd the following year.

The other sides haven't any finals experience, nor the culture required to win a flag.

 

[1990crow]

Most those players almost won a prelim two and a half years ago. Finished 3rd the following year.

The other sides haven't any finals experience, nor the culture required to win a flag.

Please. Culture is an over used word. There's far more to winning a premiership than just culture. WC, North and Bulldogs have better best 22's. No amount of culture will overcome this.

 

[Benny78]

Please. Culture is an over used word. There's far more to winning a premiership than just culture. WC, North and Bulldogs have better best 22's. No amount of culture will overcome this.

I disagree. Lists like those always only ever make up the numbers. Those sides lack stars, winning culture, and will never dominate the competition

I'd argue Geelong has a better list, and knows how to win flags. So do Hawthorn and Sydney. Not to mention Geelongs midfield is elite in comparison to those teams, so I doubt their list is worse.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Yes all Hawk flags are bradburys, we bradburied 3 in a row!

Just like Bradbury himself!
(through quarters on dq, through semis and win final on the rest falling over)

 

[1990crow]

I disagree. Lists like those always only ever make up the numbers. Those sides lack stars, winning culture, and will never dominate the competition

I'd argue Geelong has a better list, and knows how to win flags. So do Hawthorn and Sydney. Not to mention Geelongs midfield is elite in comparison to those teams, so I doubt their list is worse.

Its good to be optimistic I guess. The club knows how to win flags yes, but it sometimes doesnt matter if you dont have the players. Geelongs top end talent is up there with the best now. But Id argue the 15-25 is no where near the contenders.

 

[royalsfan]

Most those players almost won a prelim two and a half years ago. Finished 3rd the following year.

The other sides haven't any finals experience, nor the culture required to win a flag.

We managed to win two flags against your lot!

 

[Doggstats]

Most those players almost won a prelim two and a half years ago. Finished 3rd the following year.

The other sides haven't any finals experience, nor the culture required to win a flag.

Wait, what? You're blokes almost won a prelim you say, but WC, Dogs and North haven't had any finals expereince you say? You been living under a rock?

WC actually won a prelim last year. And North have had as much finals (successful) experience as anyone bar the Hawks the last few years. And even the Doggies (with the 3rd youngest list in AFL) actually got some finals experience last year, unlike Geelong.

Geelong might do better than those teams this year, but finals experience won't be the reason why.

I disagree. Lists like those always only ever make up the numbers. Those sides lack stars, winning culture, and will never dominate the competition

I'd argue Geelong has a better list, and knows how to win flags. So do Hawthorn and Sydney. Not to mention Geelongs midfield is elite in comparison to those teams, so I doubt their list is worse.

"only", "never", that's some absolute declarations right there.

Regarding the 'Stars', I could easily argue that the Dogs have more stars then the cats. Yes, their still young but you can't deny the star power of the likes of Bontempelli, Stringer, Dahlhaus, Johanissen, Macrae, Libba, Wood and potentially in the future, Tom Boyd.

Also you couldn't be more wrong about the midfields. Geelong were statistically the worst clearance team and 4th worst contested possesion team in the league last year. And simply adding 1 gun mid isn't going to change as much as you'd hope. In fact so far this year the Dogs are ranked 3rd in the league for contested possesions, North are ranked 4th and West Coast are 6th, whilst Geelong are ranked 10th.
Also contested possession differential tells the same story. With Geelong's CP diffferential a measly +2.7 whilst North are +4, West Coast are +6.7 and the Dogs are +36.

Clearances are similar, with Geelongs clearance differential being +3.7 whilst the Dogs are +9.

These are big numbers for the Dogs, because our midfield is by far our strongest area. Which you would know if you watched our game against Hawks on Sunday. Just like in all our games so far this season, we smashed the Hawks (1 of the best midfield's in the AFL) in the middle, winning clearances 46 to 30, and contested possessions 161 to 132. Our forward line just let us down that day.

Whilst Dangerfield is a massive inclusion to your midfield, at the end of the day, our midfield was much stronger than the Cats last year, then you throw in our best mid, Liberatore (#1 clearance player in the AFL from 2013-2014) and Koby Stevens who also missed half the year, and the midfield gap doesn't shrink at all. In fact so far the gap has widened even more. Which you could attribute to natural development because our midfield is so young:

Bontempelli, 20
Lachie Hunter, 21
Jack Macrae, 21
Johannisen, 23
Dahlhaus, 23
Liberatore, 23
Mitch Wallis, 23
Caleb Daniel, 19
Koby Stevens 24

Compare that to the Cats midfield which relies heavily on Selwood (27) and Dangerfield (26) who have both well and truly peaked, and have plateaued since (at a very high level mind you).

Like I said before, I think Geelong are a very dangerous team this year, but saying that their midfield is elite compared to WC, Dogs and North is just factually wrong. Just as wrong as you saying that those 3 teams have had no finals experience compared to Geelong. Only 1 of those 4 teams didn't play finals last year, and you know well which side that was. Also on the weekend only 5 players that stepped on the field for Geelong played in their last premiership.

 

[Pigdog]

I'd argue Geelong has a better list, and knows how to win flags. So do Hawthorn and Sydney. Not to mention Geelongs midfield is elite in comparison to those teams, so I doubt their list is worse.

Whilst on current form we don't have anyone of Dangerfield or Selwood's standing I would comfortably say our midfield bats deeper than yours and we have at least one young mid who is capable of reaching the levels in the not too distant future.

 

[ClintEastwood]

Freo vs Carlton GF. Lock it in.

Premature adjudication. Lock it in. (Yes, I know u weren't serious - more a comment on the thread)

 

[Wojcinski]

Wait, what? You're blokes almost won a prelim you say, but WC, Dogs and North haven't had any finals expereince you say? You been living under a rock?

WC actually won a prelim last year. And North have had as much finals (successful) experience as anyone bar the Hawks the last few years. And even the Doggies (with the 3rd youngest list in AFL) actually got some finals experience last year, unlike Geelong.

Geelong might do better than those teams this year, but finals experience won't be the reason why.




"only", "never", that's some absolute declarations right there.

Regarding the 'Stars', I could easily argue that the Dogs have more stars then the cats. Yes, their still young but you can't deny the star power of the likes of Bontempelli, Stringer, Dahlhaus, Johanissen, Macrae, Libba, Wood and potentially in the future, Tom Boyd.

Also you couldn't be more wrong about the midfields. Geelong were statistically the worst clearance team and 4th worst contested possesion team in the league last year. And simply adding 1 gun mid isn't going to change as much as you'd hope. In fact so far this year the Dogs are ranked 3rd in the league for contested possesions, North are ranked 4th and West Coast are 6th, whilst Geelong are ranked 10th.
Also contested possession differential tells the same story. With Geelong's CP diffferential a measly +2.7 whilst North are +4, West Coast are +6.7 and the Dogs are +36.

Clearances are similar, with Geelongs clearance differential being +3.7 whilst the Dogs are +9.

These are big numbers for the Dogs, because our midfield is by far our strongest area. Which you would know if you watched our game against Hawks on Sunday. Just like in all our games so far this season, we smashed the Hawks (1 of the best midfield's in the AFL) in the middle, winning clearances 46 to 30, and contested possessions 161 to 132. Our forward line just let us down that day.

Whilst Dangerfield is a massive inclusion to your midfield, at the end of the day, our midfield was much stronger than the Cats last year, then you throw in our best mid, Liberatore (#1 clearance player in the AFL from 2013-2014) and Koby Stevens who also missed half the year, and the midfield gap doesn't shrink at all. In fact so far the gap has widened even more. Which you could attribute to natural development because our midfield is so young:

Bontempelli, 20
Lachie Hunter, 21
Jack Macrae, 21
Johannisen, 23
Dahlhaus, 23
Liberatore, 23
Mitch Wallis, 23
Caleb Daniel, 19
Koby Stevens 24

Compare that to the Cats midfield which relies heavily on Selwood (27) and Dangerfield (26) who have both well and truly peaked, and have plateaued since (at a very high level mind you).

Like I said before, I think Geelong are a very dangerous team this year, but saying that their midfield is elite compared to WC, Dogs and North is just factually wrong. Just as wrong as you saying that those 3 teams have had no finals experience compared to Geelong. Only 1 of those 4 teams didn't play finals last year, and you know well which side that was. Also on the weekend only 5 players that stepped on the field for Geelong played in their last premiership.

Selwood
Danger
Motlop
Blicavs
Duncan
Guthrie
Bartel
Caddy

Cats are doing ok, although I do agree the dogs easily have the most talented youth by a country mile, reminds me of the Cats in the early 00's as you guys have been lucky with some of your F/S's and your recruitment staff have absolutely nailed your picks over the last 3 or 4 years.

 

[Doggstats]

Selwood
Danger
Motlop
Blicavs
Duncan
Guthrie
Bartel
Caddy

Cats are doing ok, although I do agree the dogs easily have the most talented youth by a country mile, reminds me of the Cats in the early 00's as you guys have been lucky with some of your F/S's and your recruitment staff have absolutely nailed your picks over the last 3 or 4 years.

No luck at all mate, just some well timed Kiss Kiss n Bang Bang

 

[TexanKnights]

Didn't north nearly lose to Melbourne who lost to Essendon?

Your point?

 

[little graham]

Your point?

Flag winners dispatch the Essendons and Melbourne rubbish of the world at home with ease.

 

[scanlon]

You need to re read the thread. I questioned a posters drug use when they claimed Adelaide were one of the 'contendors".

You look pretty silly.

Why cant Adelaide be a contender? Another year of development after finishing in the semi-finals last year. Obviously the loss of Dangerfield is big but dont think it will define them. Too solid across the whole team.

I dont actually think they'll win the flag this year as they probably still need a bit more time and development under Pyke but I think a top 4 finish is within reach and could push hard in finals.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Last year after round 3 WC were 1-2 after being smashed by Fremantle.

It's far too early to tell.

 

[Kerleys Ghost]

Why cant Adelaide be a contender? Another year of development after finishing in the semi-finals last year. Obviously the loss of Dangerfield is big but dont think it will define them. Too solid across the whole team.

I dont actually think they'll win the flag this year as they probably still need a bit more time and development under Pyke but I think a top 4 finish is within reach and could push hard in finals.

You sure you're an Essendon supporter?

 

[scanlon]

You sure you're an Essendon supporter?

haha I havent got much going for me there so have to talk somebody up

 

[Hap Hapablap]

Most those players almost won a prelim two and a half years ago. Finished 3rd the following year.

The other sides haven't any finals experience, nor the culture required to win a flag.

WCE has players that have played in finals from 2011-now including 3 last year.

prior to last year

naitanui
kennedy
darling
gaff
shuey
schofield
mackenzie
le cras
priddis
butler
wellingham
ellis
hurn



Get off the paint.

 

[Hannebrake]

I'm not saying anything about the last three GFs. I just think the Hawthorn of this year is noticeably weaker than the Hawthorn of previous years. Certainly still towards the top and in with a chance, for sure, and you certainly do have the best coach. However, I definitely disagree with your notion that you have the best list. For my mind, that honour goes to Sydney.

hmm not sure about that. The Hawks definitely aren't noticeably weaker and the swans have lost similar experience to the Hawks.

Out: Goodes, Shaw, Pyke
vs.
Out: Hale, Lake, Suckling

We will gain through Sinclair over Pyke the gradual improvement of Jones, Heeney, Mitchell and Cunningham. Lets also not forget that our midfield, which is arguably the best in the competition hasn't changed much has been absolutely destroyed by the Hawks a few times in the past 2-3 years.

Suckling was a fringe best 22 for them and Hale is replaced with Ceglar fairly easily. Lake leaving hurts them but Frawley is looking awesome at the moment and Gibson, Burgoyne and Mitchell haven't shown any signs of slowing down yet. Having the outside trio of Smith, Hill and Hartung on the park will cause headaches for every side.

Hawks still clear favourites and for good reason.