Mega Thread Port Forum 'General AFL Talk' Thread Part 2

[TheFridge]

I'm suggesting it should have never got to the stage where our KPF stocks were so bare that we had to draft a guy that 7 other clubs with more adequate recruiting resources passed on for what has been shown in hindsight to be legitimate reasons.

Easy to say, but hard to find a way that could have been avoided. We had a sustained period where our picks had us having to be speculative on potential KPFs and we bombed with the gambles we took (Butcher being one, Willots another). Heck, even Lobbe was taken with a first round tip as a prospective KPF/ruck. Sure, we missed a few such as Tippet but none who were realistically regarded as likely to be superstars. We avoided a few by not being desperate (still kinda glad we controversially chose Boak over Sellar).

I am in the camp that our list is not too far from great, but the gaps are hard to fill - but particularly involve players' attitudes, belief and some luck with injuries.

That said, I agree that out team's effort and execution this year (and last) was a generally a long way from great.

 

[Portia]

Easy to say, but hard to find a way that could have been avoided. We had a sustained period where our picks had us having to be speculative on potential KPFs

Or we could've traded into better positions.

If we're guilty of anything its of passive list management.

 

[Far Kern]

Or we could've traded into better positions.

If we're guilty of anything its of passive list management.

And we really should have had one more (Talia) in the Butcher draft. Ranks right up there for stupidity for mine.

 

[Portia]

Three first round picks in a talls draft and we end up with no talls playing 50+ games

 

[tribey]

Or we could've traded into better positions.

If we're guilty of anything its of passive list management.

Massively passive. Hawthorn always sought to improve amongst their threepeat, we rewarded fringe guys with megadeals.

 

[Janus]

Or we could've traded into better positions.

If we're guilty of anything its of passive list management.

See, this is what I mean. If you draft Talia and Carlisle, you can trade out Chaplin and Carlisle for first/second round picks when they were still up and coming players. You can play Trengove in the ruck/on ball. Things start to open up.

But I understood why we've never done it until now. It's because we've always been of the belief that if these guys just had the same development strategy as every other club in the league and didn't have to rely on a shoe string budget, they would be better players.

Well, we don't have a shoe string budget anymore, so there's no excuse to keep persisting with spuds. If they aren't up to it, they aren't up to it - cut our losses and move on to the next one.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Or we could've traded into better positions.

If we're guilty of anything its of passive list management.

Yep pretty much my thoughts when I read The Fridge's post. We didn't trade to get better picks, we picked up some shockers and we didn't even use the rookie draft to draft 23 year old state league KPFs to try to develop them when the rookie list was restricted to under 23's. The state league standard was a lot closer to AFL in the early naughties than today. It was short term get a ready made flanker type thinking. Lade being such a capable 3rd tall forward blinded our thinking as well, like having Westhoff does now.

 

[tribey]

See, this is what I mean. If you draft Talia and Carlisle, you can trade out Chaplin and Carlisle for first/second round picks when they were still up and coming players. You can play Trengove in the ruck/on ball. Things start to open up.

But I understood why we've never done it until now. It's because we've always been of the belief that if these guys just had the same development strategy as every other club in the league and didn't have to rely on a shoe string budget, they would be better players.

Well, we don't have a shoe string budget anymore, so there's no excuse to keep persisting with spuds. If they aren't up to it, they aren't up to it - cut our losses and move on to the next one.

Not drafting one of Talia or Carlisle to go with Butcher given that many first rounders was insane.

And it wasn't as if it wasn't noted at the time. But no, let's go for the bolting flankenfielder and the HBF who interviewed really well.

 

[Portia]

Not drafting both was insane, its not like you can't trade good young KPPs

 

[Zakk Wylde]

Those sponsorless guernseys... In hindsight, they were doomed from the get go lel

 

[tribey]

Not drafting both was insane, its not like you can't trade good young KPPs

Let's say we do that, regardless of the painfully obvious circumstances:

- Tredrea entering his last year
- A woeful Schulz had just come over for a packet of chips
- Trengove was a stick insect who still had question marks on his body after tearing his hammy off the bone in U18's

#8: Butcher
#9: Talia
#16: Carlisle

All things considered Moore and Pittard could've been the next O'Keefe and Hodge and we wouldn't have blamed the recruiters one bit.

 

[Portia]

Oh but tribey we elevated Daniel Stewart, so problem solved, don't need other KPPs

 

[Powerstufff]

... Well, we don't have a shoe string budget anymore, so there's no excuse to keep persisting with spuds. If they aren't up to it, they aren't up to it - cut our losses and move on to the next one.

We've been a bit better the last two years. Haven't we? IMO we have to delist or trade out about 5 of the remaining 9 contracted players IMO, but there are threads to discuss that.

 

[tribey]

Oh but tribey we elevated Daniel Stewart, so problem solved, don't need other KPPs

But how else would Jase Cripps have got his '2-minute pool noodles' Xbox Live achievement?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Those sponsorless guernseys... In hindsight, they were doomed from the get go lel

**** that is a sad looking top 10 draft group. Lots of players who haven't made it and many because of injuries. Rohan is the only one who has had real success and he was lucky given his broken leg to not join the career savaged by injury club. Edit that should have read club success for Rohan. Martin and Cunnington have had successful playing careers.

 

[Portia]

But how else would Jase Cripps have got his '2-minute pool noodles' Xbox Live achievement?

to be fair Cripps was an assistant coach at the time

 

[tribey]

to be fair Cripps was an assistant coach at the time

Yeah, when he wasn't teaching the majestic double-fist he was taking turns whacking Snowy with pool noodles. There was a great picture of it posted here at the time.

*weeps*

 

[TheFridge]

Or we could've traded into better positions.

If we're guilty of anything its of passive list management.

Fair point, Portia - I'll pay that and agree that we have fallen into the safe play wrt to trading and aggressively looking to get into the draft earlier - or conversely chasing mature KPFs with picks (I may regret my call, but I think trading hard for Charlie Dixon was a good call).

I suppose my frustration is when we fall into the trap of looking at drafts a few years post the event and go "we should have picked up player x who went at pick y who has been a much better player than the guy we recruited earlier". All clubs can play that game - all have made draft choices that look poor with 20/20 hindsight.

 

[Portia]

Fair point, Portia - I'll pay that and agree that we have fallen into the safe play wrt to trading and aggressively looking to get into the draft earlier - or conversely chasing mature KPFs with picks (I may regret my call, but I think trading hard for Charlie Dixon was a good call).

I suppose my frustration is when we fall into the trap of looking at drafts a few years post the event and go "we should have picked up player x who went at pick y who has been a much better player than the guy we recruited earlier". All clubs can play that game - all have made draft choices that look poor with 20/20 hindsight.

A lot of them looked poor at the time aka our 2009 draft, 2010 too for that matter. Its pretty easy to find the contemporary references on Bigfooty

2009 wasn't just a 'specific players' **** up but a 'strategic list management' **** up. The former is going to happen to every club at some point, but the second is 100% avoidable.

 

[tribey]

Fair point, Portia - I'll pay that and agree that we have fallen into the safe play wrt to trading and aggressively looking to get into the draft earlier - or conversely chasing mature KPFs with picks (I may regret my call, but I think trading hard for Charlie Dixon was a good call).

I suppose my frustration is when we fall into the trap of looking at drafts a few years post the event and go "we should have picked up player x who went at pick y who has been a much better player than the guy we recruited earlier". All clubs can play that game - all have made draft choices that look poor with 20/20 hindsight.

Yeah, there's a difference between those who say "we could've had Fyfe!!111" - who looked like Josh Bootsma and couldn't kick - and "we should've picked Talia", who was the consensus best key defender available in that draft and was still there at our call.

 

[TheFVK]

Ok now the first waves of insane jealousy for the Dogs' premiership are over I can enjoy the story alittle more.

Came from 7th and all that, but I also liked seeing Tom Boyd make all his knockers eat cake. It's a peculiar trait of Australians that we like to jump on the back of the big recruit, but I personally loved the masterstroke they pulled in luring him over when they looked average. It was a huge gamble, but you won't win a cup by keeping the toys in the cupboard.

Good on em, I guess. In the current uber-competitive AFL environment for all we know they'll drop down the ladder again so it just emphasises the importance of taking your chances when they present.

 

[Steve Dore]

Very jealous watching the Bulldogs yesterday.

They have multiple players who can take a contested mark
Their players can all hit a target more times than not
Their players mostly make good decisions under pressure
They put in a genuine team effort

 

[tribey]

Ok now the first waves of insane jealousy for the Dogs' premiership are over I can enjoy the story alittle more.

Came from 7th and all that, but I also liked seeing Tom Boyd make all his knockers eat cake. It's a peculiar trait of Australians that we like to jump on the back of the big recruit, but I personally loved the masterstroke they pulled in luring him over when they looked average. It was a huge gamble, but you won't win a cup by keeping the toys in the cupboard.

Good on em, I guess. In the current uber-competitive AFL environment for all we know they'll drop down the ladder again so it just emphasises the importance of taking your chances when they present.

The stars aligned for them there. A disgruntled wantaway captain whose best days were behind him, for a young powerhouse you could build around for a decade.

Had we lost a younger Boak to Geelong we'd have no doubt been compensated with a stale sandwich with surprise mold underneath.

 

[TheFVK]

The stars aligned for them there. A disgruntled wantaway captain whose best days were behind him, for a young powerhouse you could build around for a decade.

Had we lost a younger Boak to Geelong we'd have no doubt been compensated with a stale sandwich with surprise mold underneath.

Yeah I think they made the best of a shit sandwich there- pulled out a brave move in response to a forced exit. A lesser club would have balked at the idea of putting a 19yo on $1million a year and accepted the high draft picks on offer.

 

[BornPort]

Just watching the news and seeing the Bulldogs and all their supporters celebrating........ SOOOOO JEALOUS!