Charlie Cameron - what to expect in 2017?

[1970crow]

Posted in the PS thread:

"Cameron has spent the majority of the pre-season with the midfielders, working with wingers Rory Atkins and David Mackay to learn where to be in certain situations"

Hopefully not the same David Mackay that despite 160 games of experience can barely crack 20 touches whilst playing in the midfield.

 

[1970crow]

The one thing Dmac does we'll is getting in position for handball receives from stationary players. Typically he then takes 3-4 steps and boots it long to a contest.

Put charlie in that position, and he'll tare off down the ground, gaining 40 yards + wherever he disposes it.

Dmac isn't good at getting in a position to gain a possession whatsoever. Watching him dart around and not getting close to touching the ball is high comedy.

 

[1970crow]

To be fair to McKay his positioning is pretty good. He has a footy brain.

Just does not have the size or skills to be better than a below average player at the biggest level. He is our whipping boy because he gets into the play a lot and then burns it or is out muscled.


Personally think he will end up a coach of some sort in his future.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B6 using Tapatalk

No it's not. For a full time midfielder who's around the ball as much as he is, his possession volume is incredibly poor.

 

[1970crow]

How do Charlie's first couple of seasons stack up with Andrew McLeod's?

Good point. Macca played 19 games in his second year and averaged 10.2 touches. Went up to 16 in his 3rd year, which was 1997.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Good point. Macca played 19 games in his second year and averaged 10.2 touches. Went up to 16 in his 3rd year, which was 1997.

Yes, when you move from a forward pocket to on ball, your possession rate should increase with more opportunities.

 

[Rise_up_Stiffy]

Comparing CC to Petrenko.....such a troll.

 

[dogs105]

Yes, when you move from a forward pocket to on ball, your possession rate should increase with more opportunities.

Mcleod moved from fp to hb for most of 1997. Played some very good footy there.

 

[marty36]

Comparing CC to Petrenko.....such a troll.

Yes but you can't compare CC to McLeod either that's going to the other extreme

 

[Archie87]

Get Charlie away from D-Mac right now, AFC!

Given the amount of game time he gets off a wing, if D-Mac was any good at getting to decent spots he'd have cracked a 20 disposal average once in the last few years and actually provide decent run and carry. Instead, most of his touches are shitty sideways, dear-in-headlights handballs or lazy long bombs down the line after holding up play for 10 seconds.

I'd rather Charlie just watch tapes of actual decent wingmen like Isaac Smith and Stephen Hill instead who average 20+ touches a game and consistently get the ball in dangerous positions to drive the ball forward. Cameron has shown this ability in short bursts, I'm confident he'll improve his production value.

 

[Archie87]

Yes but you can't compare CC to McLeod either that's going to the other extreme

Definitely.

CC and Macca are completely different players.

Macca was just pure skill and silk. I swear missing a target wasn't even in his vocabulary.

I'm a big CC fan as he is aggressive, fast and tackles like a brute. However, his skills are nowhere near Bunj's level. It's usually reliable but he's capable of the odd-shank and he can freeze a bit when in front of goals. Macca rarely did any of that.

Macca is one of the greatest footballers of our generation. We shouldn't expect him to be Mcleod-like as few are and it just sets him up for failure.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Definitely.

CC and Macca are completely different players.

Macca was just pure skill and silk. I swear missing a target wasn't even in his vocabulary.

I'm a big CC fan as he is aggressive, fast and tackles like a brute. However, his skills are nowhere near Bunj's level. It's usually reliable but he's capable of the odd-shank and he can freeze a bit when in front of goals. Macca rarely did any of that.

Macca is one of the greatest footballers of our generation. We shouldn't expect him to be Mcleod-like as few are and it just sets him up for failure.

McLeod wasn't super clean in his first couple of seasons. Very fumbly, tried to do things too fast. Flashed in and out of games.

 

[fabs33]

Simply put, forward pocket is just not a position where performance can be easily judged by statistics, and certainly not by disposal counts otherwise we'd be saying Betts had a bad season last year because he only averaged 13.3.

 

[Shaz2012]

Simply put, forward pocket is just not a position where performance can be easily judged by statistics, and certainly not by disposal counts otherwise we'd be saying Betts had a bad season last year because he only averaged 13.3.

Looking through Maccas stats he mostly averaged around 20. Its the quality of possessions that counts. Not to mention hurt factor. CC has plenty of hurt factor. Whereas Mackay picks up 20 possessions almost every week but rarely hurts an opponent.

 

[1970crow]

Looking through Maccas stats he mostly averaged around 20. Its the quality of possessions that counts. Not to mention hurt factor. CC has plenty of hurt factor. Whereas Mackay picks up 20 possessions almost every week but rarely hurts an opponent.

Mackay has reached or exceeded 20 touches 16 times over the last 2 seasons. So basically every other week, not almost every week.

 

[Shaz2012]

Mackay has reached or exceeded 20 touches 16 times over the last 2 seasons. So basically every other week, not almost every week.

Mackay averaged 19.8 disposals in 2016. So the point I was making stands.

 

[1970crow]

Mackay averaged 19.8 disposals in 2016. So the point I was making stands.

2016 was definitely a great year for him. Reached 20 on 12 occasions, but averaging 19.8 isn't the same as reaching 20 nearly every week. If you want to say he averaged about 20, then that's what you say. But it's factually incorrect to suggest he gets 20 nearly every week, he simply doesn't.

 

[Shaz2012]

2016 was definitely a great year for him. Reached 20 on 12 occasions, but averaging 19.8 isn't the same as reaching 20 nearly every week. If you want to say he averaged about 20, then that's what you say. But it's factually incorrect to suggest he gets 20 nearly every week, he simply doesn't.

Actually my point was not on DMs posessions at all. It was that posession numbers dont tell the whole story and that hurt factor needs to be considered. I used the example of DM because last season he had similar posession numbers to Macca throught Maccas esteemed career (maybe half of Maccas career he had a very similar average). And yet nobody could claim that DM last season was comparable to any of Macca's. I dont see much difference between DM getting 18 or 19 possessions for the purpose I used his stat. As I said my point still stands with his average being 19.8.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Simply put, forward pocket is just not a position where performance can be easily judged by statistics, and certainly not by disposal counts otherwise we'd be saying Betts had a bad season last year because he only averaged 13.3.

Completely agree . In the games where Cameron gets 17 possessions he's been one of our most influential players . The Geelong at home , Melbourne at MCG and Sydney final in particular stand out where I had him in our most influential players and all of those he had around 17 touches

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

16-22 touches from Charlie in the wing will be more damaging than 17-22 touches from DMac

 

[marty36]

Completely agree . In the games where Cameron gets 17 possessions he's been one of our most influential players . The Geelong at home , Melbourne at MCG and Sydney final in particular stand out where I had him in our most influential players and all of those he had around 17 touches

CC just needs a few games like that and mix it with some solid games, he needs to get the gone missing out of his game. But I truly believe that will happen this year where he is involved in every game he plays

 

[Jeffcrowe]

CC just needs a few games like that and mix it with some solid games, he needs to get the gone missing out of his game. But I truly believe that will happen this year where he is involved in every game he plays

He won't quite get there this year , but he will improve from last year . Will go missing at times but be more influential for longer overall

Still 2-3 pre seasons away to get to his peak IMO and that player will be extremely damaging and more consistent

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

How do Charlie's first couple of seasons stack up with Andrew McLeod's?

McLeod:


Cameron:

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

As an aside, I have to say I'm pretty disappointed by some of the posts in this thread which are bordering on abusive toward Vader. I take the op as deliberately trying to provoke conversation.

Whilst I don't always agree with what Vader posts, he is always respectful and keeps it above the belt. Surely the rest of us can do the same?

There are plenty of posters around here who aren't respectful and for them it's game on, but come on folks!

 

[Infra Ted]

OP's post is a troll.

 

[Shaz2012]

McLeod:
View attachment 329222

Cameron:
View attachment 329223

Assuming the comparison is a fair one (which it probably isnt) CC is down on disposals by 1.9, 0 and 3.4 in his first 3 seasons. CC is a tackling machine, more than doubling Macca every year (nearly triple in year 1). CC is ahead on goals in every year. But one thing is missing - let me think. Oh yeah. A norm smith medal in his third year.

I dont think anyone is suggesting that CC is going to be as good as McLeod. The important point is that CC doesn't need to pick up high 20s possessions to be a major weapon for us. Macca averaged under 20 for his first 5 seasons and had already won 2 norm smiths for us. Most of his seasons he was getting around 20-22 average disposals.