Player Watch #3: Dion Prestia

[_RT_]

When you look at the 3 trades done last year...Nank at 42(?) was a ripper. The bloke adds way more than Hammer's centre taps and Ivvy's goal square marks...big tick...all in 1 body.

I no longer look at Caddy as bolstering the midfield. To me he is a mayhem/mid sized forward. Tyrone was excess to needs as we didn't need a third tall and we needed to replace Lid's increasingly undependable brilliance. Caddy's competition for a spot in the team is Lennon & Lloyd...the fact that he & Jack are covering for Ben G means his work has had extra pressure. If he is in the midfield its because he is kick chasing or following his defender. And last I looked, every team has 6 nominal defenders...so I don't know how people can say he is adding value to our midfield...he is being stood by a defender.

So add Nank's work as a ruck, the defence growth in Dave A and Short, the defence strengthening in Mac and Houli and the pressure applied by the forward dwarves (compared to witches hats last year) and you have way more pressure on the ball going forward. The midfield is no longer being stretched ala 2016. Add Dusty's growing prowess and Lambert's emergence...midfield is definitely benefitting overall.

So how to view Prestia? We are paying $4m to a Pick 6 for 5 years. Could have gotten the best kid, enjoyed some sporadic good times (like Dion so far) and paid $100x2 (if that's the draft rate) & $400x3, total $1.4m and still have another 5 years left on him. This is the same argument that existed at the time of the draft last year. So he had to be bloody good to justify $2.6m (or whatever the numbers become) overpayment. He wanted the coin, so he has to earn it.

Apparently he needs a pre-season...like a Pick 6 does. Pity he didn't arrive in professional tip-top nick a high value trade ought to. You would have thought the FD had learnt from Conca, Knights, Lennon, CEllis & Yarran of the pitfalls of hiring blokes who can't do pre-seasons. So we will waste/invest a year on him getting a pre-season in the AFL, not VFL. He isn't holding Nugget out because Nugget needs to learn to run two ways, but Jacob must be scratching his head a tad.

So next year will need to be the first of four complete high performance years, at $975k a year because the $700k this ($800-$100) year was paid in advance. On similar coin as Trent, touch under Dusty if we keep him. At some point, all of us will have to measure him on his prime efforts, not this secondary "relieving pressure" rubbish.

Well constructed thoughts expressed here. Nank has been a hit, Caddy has had to play a role that he wasn't recruited for because of others falling over, I do believe that when we do get a second tall to stand up week to week that Caddy will go back to being a part of the midfield rotation. With Prestia, has started slowly in his career with us, never argued that, but there are valid reasons for it. He is a long term recruit, little point in running him into the ground when we know he has issues so we ease him in and use him in a suitable role. I fully expect that he will get better over time. As I mentioned in previous posts even Fyfe struggled to get back to his best after an injury. Granted his injury is different to what Prestia has, another player with a knee injury is Nick Reiwoldt who has carried a bad knee for years, he has found a way to perform at his best so there is no reason why Prestia can't do the same as long as he is managed the right way, which is what we've done IMO.

 

[TigerImposter]

Apparently Prestia isn't the worst kick in the afl, but Griggs is.
Sorry about pay wall as I'm on phone:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...t/news-story/1244ac1fcfe2c2833fe6a4f4d6a5392c

 

[Cactus_]

Apparently Prestia isn't the worst kick in the afl, but Griggs is.
Sorry about pay wall as I'm on phone:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...t/news-story/1244ac1fcfe2c2833fe6a4f4d6a5392c

I quite like Grigg as a player but some of the helicopter kicks he puts up when under almost zero pressure are a crying shame (Brandon Ellis too for all he's an improve player this year).

 

[Bazzar]

Apparently Prestia isn't the worst kick in the afl, but Griggs is.
Sorry about pay wall as I'm on phone:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...t/news-story/1244ac1fcfe2c2833fe6a4f4d6a5392c

Mightn't hit targets, but he's in good company

RICHMOND fans have reason to be nervous when Shaun Grigg takes possession.

The Tiger’s kick rating is the poorest in the AFL, as revealed on this week’s episode of The Drill podcast.

And while Collingwood captain Scott Pendlebury expectedly came out on top as the league’s best ball user by foot, in-demand Greater Western Sydney star Josh Kelly has a chink in his armour.

Kelly has hit 42.3 per cent of targets this season, below his expected hit rate of 47.1 per cent given the difficulty of kicks he has attempted.

Champion Data’s Daniel Hoyne explained kick ratings give a far better guide than kicking efficiency.

“Kicking efficiency doesn’t take into account the degree of difficulty of the kick,” Hoyne said.

“Kick rating does. It takes into account how much pressure you’re under, and what type of kick you’re actually trying to pull off.

“If you’re under physical pressure and you’re trying to kick long to a guy on the lead, your expected hit rate might be 38 per cent.

“If you hit that kick, you’re +62 per cent. If you miss that kick, you’re -38 per cent.”

Hoyne said that players who chip sideways in defence might do so effectively, but their kick rating will hover around zero because they are hitting expected targets.

The list of the best kicks includes plenty of half-back weapons, including Melbourne’s Christian Salem.

The Demons try to get the ball in Salem’s hands when kicking inside 50m, identifying him as a star link man.

This week’s episode of The Drill also revealed the ‘P Rule’ which has determined most of St Kilda’s results this season and clocked Hunt’s torpedo goal against Port Adelaide at 62m.

Hunt’s bomb was the 16th longest since the stat was first recorded five years ago, with Jon Patton’s 72m goal at the SCG early last season No.1.

 

[TigerImposter]

Mightn't hit targets, but he's in good company

RICHMOND fans have reason to be nervous when Shaun Grigg takes possession.

The Tiger’s kick rating is the poorest in the AFL, as revealed on this week’s episode of The Drill podcast.

And while Collingwood captain Scott Pendlebury expectedly came out on top as the league’s best ball user by foot, in-demand Greater Western Sydney star Josh Kelly has a chink in his armour.

Kelly has hit 42.3 per cent of targets this season, below his expected hit rate of 47.1 per cent given the difficulty of kicks he has attempted.

Champion Data’s Daniel Hoyne explained kick ratings give a far better guide than kicking efficiency.

“Kicking efficiency doesn’t take into account the degree of difficulty of the kick,” Hoyne said.

“Kick rating does. It takes into account how much pressure you’re under, and what type of kick you’re actually trying to pull off.

“If you’re under physical pressure and you’re trying to kick long to a guy on the lead, your expected hit rate might be 38 per cent.

“If you hit that kick, you’re +62 per cent. If you miss that kick, you’re -38 per cent.”

Hoyne said that players who chip sideways in defence might do so effectively, but their kick rating will hover around zero because they are hitting expected targets.

The list of the best kicks includes plenty of half-back weapons, including Melbourne’s Christian Salem.

The Demons try to get the ball in Salem’s hands when kicking inside 50m, identifying him as a star link man.

This week’s episode of The Drill also revealed the ‘P Rule’ which has determined most of St Kilda’s results this season and clocked Hunt’s torpedo goal against Port Adelaide at 62m.

Hunt’s bomb was the 16th longest since the stat was first recorded five years ago, with Jon Patton’s 72m goal at the SCG early last season No.1.

That good company is made up of hard nosed and hard contested ball winning mids and if Grigg had an iota of their aggression and ball winning class I could agree with you. Unfortunately Grigg is just an outside run with player with light ruck duties who I hope Graham will force out in the near future.

 

[richoplzbreed]

Sickens me meatballs on the same coin as treloar. Tom Mitchell was pick 14 and on $550. This deal will go down in history as a complete shocker. Not sure what's worse his kicking or handballing. Should've got will Brodie and banked prestias money for tom lynch a genuine match winning big fish not a pudgy little carp.

 

[blaisee]

The AFL has new data available to pundits on the afl app.

Prestia ran 15.3 kilometres against Brisbane.

Scully runs about 16 each week and is considered the best two way runner.

Given that he hasn't had a preseason he clearly a very good runner coming into fitness.

By the way Brandon is the best runner, followed by Lambert most weeks.

where is this data ?

Can you provide a link please

 

[SunshineBoy]

But your basing your argument on 3/4 of a season on a player not having a preseason and only being able to train twice a week for the last month.

You tell me which one of us is reaching in our arguments? You're basing your argument on a very small sample size.

So tell us when he will have an un interrupted pre season, it won't be the next as he us going in for a clean up, will it be the 3 rd of 5 or maybe the 4 th? Or maybe the last ?, when was the last un interrupted pre season he had?

This malarkey about when he has a FULL preseason is like the pot at the end of a rainbow, the people that propagate that myth are conceding his issues

Now I have put some questions in this post , would meatball or tropical please answer?

 

[SunshineBoy]

Mightn't hit targets, but he's in good company

RICHMOND fans have reason to be nervous when Shaun Grigg takes possession.

The Tiger’s kick rating is the poorest in the AFL, as revealed on this week’s episode of The Drill podcast.

And while Collingwood captain Scott Pendlebury expectedly came out on top as the league’s best ball user by foot, in-demand Greater Western Sydney star Josh Kelly has a chink in his armour.

Kelly has hit 42.3 per cent of targets this season, below his expected hit rate of 47.1 per cent given the difficulty of kicks he has attempted.

Champion Data’s Daniel Hoyne explained kick ratings give a far better guide than kicking efficiency.

“Kicking efficiency doesn’t take into account the degree of difficulty of the kick,” Hoyne said.

“Kick rating does. It takes into account how much pressure you’re under, and what type of kick you’re actually trying to pull off.

“If you’re under physical pressure and you’re trying to kick long to a guy on the lead, your expected hit rate might be 38 per cent.

“If you hit that kick, you’re +62 per cent. If you miss that kick, you’re -38 per cent.”

Hoyne said that players who chip sideways in defence might do so effectively, but their kick rating will hover around zero because they are hitting expected targets.

The list of the best kicks includes plenty of half-back weapons, including Melbourne’s Christian Salem.

The Demons try to get the ball in Salem’s hands when kicking inside 50m, identifying him as a star link man.

This week’s episode of The Drill also revealed the ‘P Rule’ which has determined most of St Kilda’s results this season and clocked Hunt’s torpedo goal against Port Adelaide at 62m.

Hunt’s bomb was the 16th longest since the stat was first recorded five years ago, with Jon Patton’s 72m goal at the SCG early last season No.1.

At least the tigers are winning one stat....lol

 

[Sir_Loin]

So tell us when he will have an un interrupted pre season, it won't be the next as he us going in for a clean up, will it be the 3 rd of 5 or maybe the 4 th? Or maybe the last ?, when was the last un interrupted pre season he had?

This malarkey about when he has a FULL preseason is like the pot at the end of a rainbow, the people that propagate that myth are conceding his issues

Now I have put some questions in this post , would meatball or tropical please answer?

Who says he's going in for a clean up? You see, you make as many assumptions about his conditioning and longevity as those who "propagate myths". So before you go spraying the room with your BS shotgun have a think about that beforehand please.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Who says he's going in for a clean up? You see, you make as many assumptions about his conditioning and longevity as those who "propagate myths". So before you go spraying the room with your BS shotgun have a think about that beforehand please.

my comment is accurate, how about attempting an answer to the other questions

 

[Charlie Pannam]

So tell us when he will have an un interrupted pre season, it won't be the next as he us going in for a clean up, will it be the 3 rd of 5 or maybe the 4 th? Or maybe the last ?, when was the last un interrupted pre season he had?

This malarkey about when he has a FULL preseason is like the pot at the end of a rainbow, the people that propagate that myth are conceding his issues

Now I have put some questions in this post , would meatball or tropical please answer?

Knee issues or not I haven't been impressed with Prestias inside/contested game at all this year. I had him marked down as a real blue collar hardnut prior to his arrival but I haven't seen any real evidence of that, maybe 1 game 3 or 4 weeks ago.

 

[Phar Ace]

So tell us when he will have an un interrupted pre season, it won't be the next as he us going in for a clean up,

Really, has it been written or said somewhere? Would explain a fair bit if so.

 

[Sir_Loin]

my comment is accurate, how about attempting an answer to the other questions

I apologise, I didn't know you are on the high performance or medical teams at RFC. I take it all back.

 

[Grrr]

Actually thought Grigg had ironed out his loopy kicking last season and generally lowered his eyes and kicked pretty well. This season, although his game has improved, more ball, more direct, better link up, his kicking seems to have gone back to form. This is not so bad when he runs through the middle of the ground, because he is running straight and delivering long, but last week he wasn't played through the centre (wing, so it seemed), so he was pretty invisible. Combined with ineffective kicking, and he was pretty ordinary for most of the game.
As an outside player Grigg is very limited. When he plays inside, he is much better due to his straight link -up line running, a bit like a poor man's Treloar. Please don't turn him into a wingman again.

 

[Goldust]

There would be less than 20 blokes in the AFL who are precise by foot and can regularly hit targets in any situation ..... and I doubt any of them are at Richmond (which is no slight on us), it's just the way the way - or more the pace - at which the game is played.
I'm talking about blokes, who under pressure regularly get the ball to their destination.
Any spud can be 10-20m in the clear and hit a leading teammate on the chest, but executing under real pressure is the domain of very few.
And it's always been thus. I'm a big fan of the late 80s and 90s, but in reality they largely just kicked to the next contest .... different style of game.

 

[Phar Ace]

So how to view Prestia? We are paying $4m to a Pick 6 for 5 years. Could have gotten the best kid, enjoyed some sporadic good times (like Dion so far) and paid $100x2 (if that's the draft rate) & $400x3, total $1.4m and still have another 5 years left on him. This is the same argument that existed at the time of the draft last year. So he had to be bloody good to justify $2.6m (or whatever the numbers become) overpayment. He wanted the coin, so he has to earn it.

Apparently he needs a pre-season...like a Pick 6 does. Pity he didn't arrive in professional tip-top nick a high value trade ought to. You would have thought the FD had learnt from Conca, Knights, Lennon, CEllis & Yarran of the pitfalls of hiring blokes who can't do pre-seasons. So we will waste/invest a year on him getting a pre-season in the AFL, not VFL. He isn't holding Nugget out because Nugget needs to learn to run two ways, but Jacob must be scratching his head a tad.

So next year will need to be the first of four complete high performance years, at $975k a year because the $700k this ($800-$100) year was paid in advance. On similar coin as Trent, touch under Dusty if we keep him. At some point, all of us will have to measure him on his prime efforts, not this secondary "relieving pressure" rubbish.

I'm a bit confused - you trying to hold Prestia accountable to himself or the Football Department accountable?

Have always been a bit of a fan of Prestia's early work at GC, but if mugs like me can predict recurring knee problems from snippets of media information, I don't understand how an entire football department can't be all over it and make the best decision in the interests of RFC. Perhaps undertakings had already been made prior to his last recurrence injury/surgery at GC. It's the only valid excuse that could be offered up.

I'm with you on the sort of coin being paid to Prestia and comparing that to say a Jack Scrimshaw or a Will Brodie. Dusty, Cotch will surpass the money Prestia is on and the new Bargaining Agreement has made sure of that so I wouldn't stress over these type of comparisons.

The Football Department had better have valid medical advice though that the knee was manageable (like say Burgoyne's). The how's and when's of this deal really interest me as I think they tell us a lot about getting these sort of deals done in this environment and where it's heading perhaps.

 

[Phar Ace]

There would be less than 20 blokes in the AFL who are precise by foot and can regularly hit targets in any situation ..... and I doubt any of them are at Richmond (which is no slight on us), it's just the way the way - or more the pace - at which the game is played.
I'm talking about blokes, who under pressure regularly get the ball to their destination.
Any spud can be 10-20m in the clear and hit a leading teammate on the chest, but executing under real pressure is the domain of very few.
And it's always been thus. I'm a big fan of the late 80s and 90s, but in reality they largely just kicked to the next contest .... different style of game.

Too true Goldy. I teach my kids kicking is a bit like a contract with two parties responsible - kicker and receiver. The disposal only looks great when both do their part properly. The receiver has the power to make the kicker look brilliant or an ass. Both have to know something about what the other party wants, the more they know the better the disposal. Little things like left hand, right foot, pace and pause, advantage side, communication (eyes and ears). Tell your team mate what you are good at, and tell your team mate what you want. You'd think these things were all givens at elite level, but sometimes I just wonder.

 

[Bazzar]

where is this data ?

Can you provide a link please

It was on the AFL live game app. It was a great effort 15+ k's

 

[Football Tragic]

Sickens me meatballs on the same coin as treloar. Tom Mitchell was pick 14 and on $550. This deal will go down in history as a complete shocker. Not sure what's worse his kicking or handballing. Should've got will Brodie and banked prestias money for tom lynch a genuine match winning big fish not a pudgy little carp.

Treloar cost the pies two early first round draft picks, Prestia cost us one. Half price. Prestia may have started his career at Richmond slowly but the impact he has made to the midfield is irrefutable. He will only get better as he overcomes injures and has a full preseason. Last weeks game was probably his best for us so far.

Put it this way, if we kept Lids we would have a player we got for Pick 1 in the draft costing us 50% more than Prestia and not even playing a game. If Prestia is a bust in your opinion yet along with Nank and Caddy have enabled us to get within striking distance of the top 4 this year, then I hope we have many more busts and 'complete shocker' deals like this in the future! We may get a flag out of it

Still every early on, so I'm not willing to state whether what the club payed for him was under or overs, but I ceertainly value the midfield depth and impact he is having on our overall performance.

 

[Bazzar]

Who says he's going in for a clean up? You see, you make as many assumptions about his conditioning and longevity as those who "propagate myths". So before you go spraying the room with your BS shotgun have a think about that beforehand please.

Richo on AW a month back said the exact same thing.

 

[Goldust]

To quote Terry Wallace ... 'I'll f**** spew up" if one more poster mentions Prestia will "only get better once he has a full pre-season."
Wake up and smell the roses.
He didn't have a full pre-season this year ... he didn't have one last season .... or the previous one.
Someone point me to this miracle cure, please???? I have a bad back and shoulder, but it will come good with this miracle elixir no doubt.
Or is this just another case of posters painting everything as 100 per cent better as soon as you walk past the Jack Dyer statue and through the doors to Dimma's office????

 

[Tiger2709]

Sickens me meatballs on the same coin as treloar. Tom Mitchell was pick 14 and on $550. This deal will go down in history as a complete shocker. Not sure what's worse his kicking or handballing. Should've got will Brodie and banked prestias money for tom lynch a genuine match winning big fish not a pudgy little carp.

Hasn't there been plenty of discussion about Treloars delivery being pretty useless, turns a lot over and kicks wide when there are much better options and he not only cost Collingwood a lot more he also had a full pre season and has been training with the main squad for two years.
I will be judging Prestia after a full pre season and involvement in full training, lack of fitness is a big negative when it comes to kicking etc.

 

[Charlie Pannam]

I quite like Grigg as a player but some of the helicopter kicks he puts up when under almost zero pressure are a crying shame (Brandon Ellis too for all he's an improve player this year).

Griggers hang time might get him a gig in the NFL.

 

[Tiger2709]

To quote Terry Wallace ... 'I'll f**** spew up" if one more poster mentions Prestia will "only get better once he has a full pre-season."
Wake up and smell the roses.
He didn't have a full pre-season this year ... he didn't have one last season .... or the previous one.
Someone point me to this miracle cure, please???? I have a bad back and shoulder, but it will come good with this miracle elixir no doubt.
Or is this just another case of posters painting everything as 100 per cent better as soon as you walk past the Jack Dyer statue and through the doors to Dimma's office????

Better get the barf bag out then.

Remember the saying time heals all wounds, I had a prolapsed disc from footy that took nearly ten years to come good, with the right care you may see Prestia at his best, the Hawks were of the same mind with JOM and they don't make to many mistakes.