Do Richmond get a pass mark if they fail to win a final?

[TheGreatBarryB]

This is the best Tigers "team" in over 30 years. I didn't give them a chance in hell at the start of the season. They do "team" nearly as well as the Dogs did last year (of course Dogs went on the win four finals so not saying on par).

Cats have struggled at the G. Reckon the Tigers will beat them, then a Prelim at the G! They're a big chance

 

[demondavey]

Yeah? I certainly would be happy with that scenario - do you feel playing at the G would make the difference? Or simply the tigers match up well?

Think their brand of footy matches up well. They played really well against them earlier this year and lost by 9 points, I don't know what it is exactly, I think they play a really positive attacking style that matches up well. I think people also underestimate how good their midfield is, I reckon they can match it with what Sydney has.

 

[tigerT]

No you rank 9th in contested possession and 14th in stoppages, those numbers don't lend well for finals

I just explained earlier that those numbers aren't actually correct and in real terms without free kicks skewing the numbers we are placed very well in the contested stakes, but knock yourself out

 

[Capt Hindsight]

Richmond has already achieved a pass mark this year.

If you finish 3rd with that list that has only 1 key tall fwd and often played without a relief ruck (grigg has been rucking, like come on). You get a pass mark.

Will it be extremely disappointing if Tigers fail to win a final? Yes.
Season still a pass though.

 

[Arr0w]

I just explained earlier that those numbers aren't actually correct and in real terms without free kicks skewing the numbers we are placed very well in the contested stakes, but knock yourself out

Explain to me how free kicks affect the contested possession numbers for Richmond, given this would also apply to other sides?

 

[tigerT]

Explain to me how free kicks affect the contested possession numbers for Richmond, given this would also apply to other sides?

The way it was explained is that everytime a side gives away a freekick it is counted as a contested possession to the opposition. Given that we've given away more free kicks than any other side by a long long way this season, the guys from CD said if you take away the contested possessions from free kicks, richmond is actually 3rd in the afl for contested possession differential. He also said when they provided clubs with data, clubs looked at it without the free kicks skewing the stats.

Before I heard this I didnt even know that free kicks counted as contested possessions to the side receiving them. Interesting

 

[Arr0w]

The way it was explained is that everytime a side gives away a freekick it is counted as a contested possession to the opposition. Given that we've given away more free kicks than any other side by a long long way this season, the guys from CD said if you take away the contested possessions from free kicks, richmond is actually 3rd in the afl for contested possession differential. He also said when they provided clubs with data, clubs looked at it without the free kicks skewing the stats.

Before I heard this I didnt even know that free kicks counted as contested possessions to the side receiving them. Interesting

Contested possessions are made up of:
* Hard Ball Get (win disputed ball while physically beating an opponent at ground level)
* Loose Ball Get (win other disputed ball at ground level – ie. right place, right time)
* Contested Knock-on (knocking the ball out of a pack to a teammate’s advantage – Hawthorn do this a lot)
* Gather from Hitout to Advantage (similar to looseball get, but the ball was fed from the ruckman’s tap)
* Free Kicks (excluding those paid off the ball or downfield)
* Contested Marks (all marks where an opponent had a chance to mark or spoil – not including marks on lead)

I understand that part, which I am not disputing and yes your differential is -3 per game. But GWS are at -2 by game, yet rank considerable higher in contested possessions and stoppages


Richmond his year
Ranked 12th in Team to Opponent Contested Possessions Per Game Diff
Ranked 18th in Team to Opponent Stoppage Clearances Per Game Diff

This needs to be addressed, if you have any hope of winning finals.

 

[SCRAY72]

Have to win a final without question, they are healthy and in form therefore should make prelim at least.
Go Tigers.

 

[sloppyjoespizza]

really won't get a better shot at it than week 1.
Geelong and West Coast are two of the softer teams in the finals this year. Port Adelaide is another but they get a home final so they should be good in first the game.

Richmond just gotta lock down on Duncan's outside run and the likes of Murdoch, Blicavs will crap themselves as they have done every single time in a final so far in their career.

 

[MightyTiger]

Yep, I stand by this:



You make top 4, you are expected to win a final. Some years like 2009 there's a top 2 and the rest, others like 2014 there's really a top 5. But if you make the top 4 you are still expected to win at least one final. Richmond get a QF at their home ground, then if they lose they get a SF at their home ground against Sydney or Essendon. It's a pretty weak year when the best side in the comp only wins 15 games. We won 16 last year with a % of 130 and finished 6th. That would've had us top this year with the second highest %...

Did you just quote and reply to your own question?

 

[Benny78]

Any top 4 team no matter how soft their draw is or how injury ravaged they are MUST make the prelims or it can't be seen as a pass mark.

So if Brisbane go top 4 in 2018 and go out in straight sets that's not a pass mark?

They're probably considering top 14 a pass mark for 2018.

 

[Deep]

So if Brisbane go top 4 in 2018 and go out in straight sets that's not a pass mark?

They're probably considering top 14 a pass mark for 2018.

When Brisbane make finals next it won't be top 4, it'll be the following season or 2

 

[Lsta062]

Have done very well to finish 3rd at the end of the H&A season, who would've thought they'd be within a win of top spot at the end of the year going into the season? But with the finals looming, this is where Richmond are really going to be judged. Like most on here have said, going out in straight sets would be a fail. Playing Geelong first up is going to be interesting. Haven't beaten them since 2006, so what an opportunity for Richmond to break the streak against Geelong as well as winning their first final since 2001. I'm leaning towards Geelong however. Going to be a big finals series for the Tigers, they need to win a final but I have my doubts.

We often find that Premiership sides needed to break their losing run against problem sides in the finals, and we need to do the same.

Sydney in 2012 and their opponents (this is a bit of an extreme example):
- QF: Adelaide (they lost 12 out of the past 14 matches against Adelaide heading into the game). They won.
- PF: Collingwood (they lost the last 11 matches against Collingwood heading into the game). They won.
- GF: Hawthorn (they won only 3 out of their last 9 matches against Hawthorn heading into the match). They won.

Hawthorn in 2013:
- Needed to beat Geelong in the PF to make the GF and they did. They lost their last 11 matches against Geelong prior to this.

Bulldogs in 2016:
- EF: West Coast in Perth. Have only won 2 out of 14 games against West Coast at Subiaco, with one of the other matches being a draw. They won
- SF: Hawthorn. Were on an 8-game losing streak against Hawthorn heading into the match. They won.
- PF: GWS at Spotless Stadium. Had only 1 game experience at Spotless (a 25 point loss earlier in that year). Won despite losing 7 Preliminary Finals since their last flag.

Point is that Richmond can do this given that other sides have done so before. I guess we'll have to wait and see if Richmond follow this trajectory as well or not.

 

[Bazza97]

We often find that Premiership sides needed to break their losing run against problem sides in the finals, and we need to do the same.

Sydney in 2012 and their opponents (this is a bit of an extreme example):
- QF: Adelaide (they lost 12 out of the past 14 matches against Adelaide heading into the game). They won.
- PF: Collingwood (they lost the last 11 matches against Collingwood heading into the game). They won.
- GF: Hawthorn (they won only 3 out of their last 9 matches against Hawthorn heading into the match). They won.

Hawthorn in 2013:
- Needed to beat Geelong in the PF to make the GF and they did. They lost their last 11 matches against Geelong prior to this.

Bulldogs in 2016:
- EF: West Coast in Perth. Have only won 2 out of 14 games against West Coast at Subiaco, with one of the other matches being a draw. They won
- SF: Hawthorn. Were on an 8-game losing streak against Hawthorn heading into the match. They won.
- PF: GWS at Spotless Stadium. Had only 1 game experience at Spotless (a 25 point loss earlier in that year). Won despite losing 7 Preliminary Finals since their last flag.

Point is that Richmond can do this given that other sides have done so before. I guess we'll have to wait and see if Richmond follow this trajectory as well or not.

Very interesting stats there, I had no idea about Sydney's previous poor record against the teams they played in the 2012 finals series. Going to be interesting seeing Richmond come up against Geelong at the MCG. Would be huge if they win that and go straight to the PF. I think Richmond are the smoky in the finals series, they made top 4 but there is still a question mark on their finals credentials. Winning in the first week of finals would be fantastic and for me any team that makes it to the PF can win it. Good luck in the finals, I'll be watching Richmond with a lot of interest.

 

[Lsta062]

Very interesting stats there, I had no idea about Sydney's previous poor record against the teams they played in the 2012 finals series. Going to be interesting seeing Richmond come up against Geelong at the MCG. Would be huge if they win that and go straight to the PF. I think Richmond are the smoky in the finals series, they made top 4 but there is still a question mark on their finals credentials. Winning in the first week of finals would be fantastic and for me any team that makes it to the PF can win it. Good luck in the finals, I'll be watching Richmond with a lot of interest.

And the question marks are understandable. It is up to them to prove their credentials. A potential 3 MCG games to a flag does sound attractive though, so it is important for us to win the QF.

 

[Overhang]

I actually feel sorry for Hardwick and Scott, both have questionable finals records and yet 1 of them will lose this game and then most likely face the most inform team in the comp. Has the QF loser ever not been fav in the semi because that's a real possibility if Sydney win their EF comfortably.

 

[Red Bull]

Absolutely .
Dan the man Richardson stated the club policy was to put together a side to make finals .
Job done .

 

[GroggSquad]

I've still got the lid firmly on. This club has burnt me too many times in the past for me to be content with their success so far this season.

Must. Win. A. Final.

Would sack Damien "Coach of the Year" Hardwick if we fail to achieve this. 8 seasons in charge for a 0-5 finals record is unacceptable.

 

[ManUp2016]

LOL anything less than a premiership is a fail.

 

[mopsy]

And the question marks are understandable. It is up to them to prove their credentials. A potential 3 MCG games to a flag does sound attractive though, so it is important for us to win the QF.

Gotta agree you know me im probably the most critical tiger supporter going around but to finish top 3 with all those question marks, well win lose or draw the h/a season makes the season a success.

Start of the yr i had us going anywhere from 7th to 14th and in another season we may well finish 14th. Thats how even i view the competition.
Personally and you know this i dont believe we have the right structure to win a g/f and i think way too much is still left to too few.
I also still have serious concerns about too many players and their ability to stand up under real pressure.

If we are going to pinch one i think it has to be this yr, because i have no doubt we could just as easily finish in the bottom third of the ladder next yr as make the 8. But this is true for a lot of teams because of the evenness of the comp.

 

[Lsta062]

Gotta agree you know me im probably the most critical tiger supporter going around but to finish top 3 with all those question marks, well win lose or draw the h/a season makes the season a success.

Start of the yr i had us going anywhere from 7th to 14th and in another season we may well finish 14th. Thats how even i view the competition.
Personally and you know this i dont believe we have the right structure to win a g/f and i think way too much is still left to too few.
I also still have serious concerns about too many players and their ability to stand up under real pressure.

If we are going to pinch one i think it has to be this yr, because i have no doubt we could just as easily finish in the bottom third of the ladder next yr as make the 8. But this is true for a lot of teams because of the evenness of the comp.

Yep, I feel like the competition is quite even. Works in our favour for this finals series as a win in the QF means that we stay in Melbourne in the PF and the GF if we make it. Need to take advantage of it.

Although I do think that our gameplan is finals quality.

 

[Hawkthorn33]

They will go out in straight sets.

Nah Tiges will beat your mob week 1

G'day mate, so what were you saying?

The Kitty Cats are a high chance to go out straight sets now, you would think

 

[HaroLad]

G'day mate, so what were you saying?

The Kitty Cats are a high chance to go out straight sets now, you would think

At least we're playing finals

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Been 54 minutes since Richmond last won a final.
Pathetic

 

[Scholz Supremacy]

I'm really happy for Dimma because the pressure on him all year would have been massive so he really deserves this.