For me Gary Ablett Snr and Leigh Matthews are the best I've seen. Royce Hart & Carey not far behind, then all the great midfielders, Ian Stewart, Robert Harvey, Riccuto, Voss, Judd etc. Forwards, mid/forwards like Ablett and Matthews are great because they can do it all. Both Danger and Martin are mainly mids who go forward, but they are not in the same league as forwards as Ablett/Matthews and about as good as them as mids. Martin is special because he is playing like a big male lion, it will take at least two others to bring him down, so he bullies his way around. At the same time he brings others into the game. Great season, and if he keeps repeating it he will keep company with those mentioned above. Similar to Fyfe a few years ago, neither will be GOAT.
Opinion Can Dustin Martin be the GOAT? (Answer: no)
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- Dec 22, 2006
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No.. He has had an unbelievable year, but he is already 26. Wayne Carey was dominating at the level Dusty is when he was 21.
Do people actually forget how Good Gary Ablett is? Or is it just that Dusty is the flavour of the month?
Ablett Senior, Ablett Junior, Carey, Matthews, Franklin will go down in the GOAT conversation. Dusty will be remembered as a great player, perhaps even Richmond team of the century one day, but he is a step below the others.
Ablett Senior, Ablett Junior, Carey, Matthews, Franklin will go down in the GOAT conversation. Dusty will be remembered as a great player, perhaps even Richmond team of the century one day, but he is a step below the others.
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100%.. I reckon the exact same things were being said about Dangerfield 12 months ago, and Bontempelli was to be the next big thing to take the comp by storm, Josh Kelly was the player early in the year.. What Dusty achieved in 1 year is remarkable and probably unprecedented winning almost every single individual award and the premiership but he would need to do it over 10 years to be even in the conversation as GOAT.
cannot
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hes got the iconic / (unique?) dont argue thou. Dusty has Buddy covered i reckon - x3 times more "tackles broken" than the 2nd best in the afl... lol
bestfinalsplayer award (?? i didnt know this was a thing)
flag
b+f
mvp
brownlow
etc.
not bad
also #1 in the afl for 1v1 inside f50, or was
not as spectacular as a speccie but more efficient. like 22 contested touches in a gf or a shitload of goals and possessions every season since he said "i was born for this" & the media got upset at neck tats
Dusty and Dangerfield, they hit a certain sweetspot, where teams started playing a grid 18man defense, that even tho KB puts on his cloak for the Hungryforsport shtick, he knows, the tagger is for all 18 players on the offense*, by all 18 players on the defense*
Now, previously Dangerfield and Dusty and Fyfe and Mitchell and Ablett and Swan, their 3 vote games would be tagged away, and a few of those three vote games by Dangerfield and Dusty would have dissipated.
The game, as ever, is in flux, evolving (that may be axiomatic, automatic presumption). A few teams on some* days, have been able to tackle Dusty, but on the whole, no one can bring him down and tackle him and cope with the fend off. He has inverted tackling. He does an offensive tackle, putting the defender into reverse like that 15yo wannabe terrorist on Friday on Flinders street doing the reverse burn-outs.
Dusty IS UNIQUE. I completely agree, and even if he was given NRL tacklers, whose bodies need to have stamina for the AFL game, so have lost some muscle, some of them will not be able to negate his fend. *some. There will also be some who can beat his offensive fend, more times than they lose to him. But they would be the best of the NRL tacklers. Not our game. So a heavy caveat.
But I think Franklin is superior, and his unique has it over Dusty's unique. See how Fyfe and Dangerfield also busted thru tackles and broke away from contests thru sheer pre-season work in the gym with high intensity movements on their explosivity *pleonasm, and crossfit and Olympic movements like cleans (clean and jerk). They broke tackles thru absolute force majeure https://www.google.com.au/search?rl...ck...0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.QegsDIu2W3E
but like I said, on the NRL tacklers, I think they will put even more work in how they negate him, and the few times and games he was negated and had holding-the-ball decisions against him.
One tactic I am sure will be used, is the Mcguire lobbying tactic, Dusty gets away with a material amount of "high fend-offs". The umpires are lulled into spectating pov at his tour-de-force.
If I was the opposition 17 teams, I would get this out on the umpires radar for every game next year, a little like how they changed the high-tackles to neutralise Selwood, and the smear on Thomas from North Melbourne playing up for free kicks. Well, they should use this against Dusty. They wont stop him, but they may get a decision against him every second game. I would arc up if I was an opposing coach. All is fair in love and war.
They may not go in with their chest being so open to a fend-off. They may only go in from a different direction, they may not attempt to go in from front on, they may lower their chest so they are more likely to get a Selwood-high-tackle inverted free kick.
They will have more techniques to neutralise Dusty. but guess what. They wont neutralise him. They may stem his influence on the margins, but by then he has won the games for the Tiges!!!
my point about flux and evolution, it is a sweet spot was made to exploit, but if it came ten years ago Ablett jnr and Swan and Kerr and Judd would have also run riot innit. But the game put a heavy emphasis on tagging during their reign. This is neither here nor there, not making them better or worse, I am just putting a greater explanation on the reference to sweet spot, this does not make Dusty worse or better. I could die a happy man with Dusty getting a dozen fend offs a year, singing the song ten times a year, Cotch winning a browlow that is not taken of Jobe, and Riewoldt kicking a ton. Dusty is great. He foot is lethal they way it is like a tracer bullet flying low, like Buddy's pinpoint passes flying low.
*asterisk caveat, is cos for most, I avoid using Seppo terms to describe a native game (our game), so you will not hear me saying spot-up, spotted-up, offense, defense, going-forward etc etc etc. You wont hear me saying Winnebago neither, it is caravan, or Jayco or Viscount. not Winnebago.
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actually, I want to make one more point. And I agree with this point you make.
He may be the best one-out guy ever in the forward 50 when a 50/50 ball comes floating in. He never loses his feet, and his ability to mis-handle (the word I seek to use is -to put the opposition off-balance), the way Dusty can put the opposition off his feet and centre of gravity and manoeuvre him so he gets a 50-50 to his(Dusty's) overwhelming advantage, is... Olympian greco-Roman wrestler level, gestalt with the best NRL body control player, and power-to-weight.
When Dangerfield dobbed those 6 goals in a half or what, when he was placed in the forward 50 down at Skilled, they were mostly marks where he had a free run and could RoyceHart/NathanFyfe (verb neologism) run at the ball and take his unencumbered leap. But that could be neutralised, it can potentially be neutralised by someone like Rance filling a hole.
When the ball hits the ground and Dusty is one-on-one, it is a thing of beauty, I think the opposition defender literally shits their shorts when they are left one out with Dusty.
Ablett senior? Lockett? Carey? Buddy?
nope, I think he is superior to them all one-out. And the statistics on one-on-one 'win percentage' back me up.
Geelong and Freo supporters, I too, marvel at Fyfe and Dangerfield.
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Kevin Bartlett has 5 premierships, 5 best and fairest awards and is the greatest player in finals history, just look at his stats. Destroys Gary Ablett Snr.
And Dustin Martin's 2017 is infinitely better than any season Gary Ablett Jnr has ever had.
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Ablett Jnr is the best midfielder of this generation hands down. Dusty martin might've gotten more awards in a single season but every one who has watched Ablett play will know no other player in the generation matches his completeness as a player.
R u ok?
Cdog71
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I agree
Ablett Jnr over the last ten years there where games he looked like an u18 kid playing against u14s not because he put bodies em, just s**t loads better
Cdog71
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Given his omission, people may be forgetting how good Chris Judd was.
I reckon Judd and Daniel Kerr were better than the lot of the ones we have named, Dusty included, besides Buddy. Buddy GOAT imo
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He's the best player in the league, but in terms of the legends of the game he's coming from a long way back. 1 very good season and 1 outstanding season. Guys like Carey, Matthews et al already had 3 or 4 outstanding seasons by his age and kept going.
But he's got all the tools and enough time to be one of the dozens of players on those next line of footballers.
Not out of the question he gets right amongst the big names, but they all probably had 8+ seasons in the top echelon of players. He's had probably 1.5 and at his age he's probably only gonna have enough time to pack in 5 seasons worth of top shelf footy. So it's gonna have to be some real top shelf football to get his name in amongst those heavyweights.
But he's got all the tools and enough time to be one of the dozens of players on those next line of footballers.
Not out of the question he gets right amongst the big names, but they all probably had 8+ seasons in the top echelon of players. He's had probably 1.5 and at his age he's probably only gonna have enough time to pack in 5 seasons worth of top shelf footy. So it's gonna have to be some real top shelf football to get his name in amongst those heavyweights.
Carey would be six to 1. re: GOAT potentialseasons
Rance2Mewtwo
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The thing about Dusty is he's so dominant in a non-statistical way too. He gets about 10-20% less possessions than Gary Ablett Jnr, but he makes up for it by being a force of nature.
In a Grand Final I saw a Crows player elect not to engage him for a tackle purely because Dusty had his arm ready to give him the don't argue.
How many other players intimidate the opposition into choosing not to tackle him in a Grand Final??
In a Grand Final I saw a Crows player elect not to engage him for a tackle purely because Dusty had his arm ready to give him the don't argue.
How many other players intimidate the opposition into choosing not to tackle him in a Grand Final??
like Dusty's arm is lex luther and his palm has a coating of kryptonite
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Dusty is a beast, no doubt, and a great player, but GOAT? He'd have to come out of the blocks a bit faster would have thought
He's had a great individual season, but he's not a freak like John Coleman was
He's had a great individual season, but he's not a freak like John Coleman was
Scanlens Man
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Agree he's not Ablett's equal, but he can do things that Ablett can't do, like out-muscle opponents and mark, or win those crucial 2 on ones you see him win.
They're wearing the same shoes, Ablett's still just a bit shinier
I don't get how Martin is able to casually wave an arm at the opposition and they fall over as he does a slight change of direction. I love when a player comes along and changes the way that people want to play the game.
Definitely one of the best I've seen but then again I watched Judd live in that 04-06 period where the cameras were having trouble keeping up with him bursting out of congestion.
Definitely one of the best I've seen but then again I watched Judd live in that 04-06 period where the cameras were having trouble keeping up with him bursting out of congestion.
If you confine the conversation to GOAT "midfielder" and Dusty had another two or three seasons like this one then he would come into calculations. But there is a long line ahaed of him at the moment.
I wouldn't even bother with converstaions of Carey vs Martin or Hart vs Martin. They make little sense, some people rate mids higher than KPs, some people prefer KPs. I am in the latter - even today I would take Daniher before Martin if I was starting a team.
I wouldn't even bother with converstaions of Carey vs Martin or Hart vs Martin. They make little sense, some people rate mids higher than KPs, some people prefer KPs. I am in the latter - even today I would take Daniher before Martin if I was starting a team.
