Analysis 2010/11 build vs 2017/18 build

[Le Grille]

and with the same coach.

With you on that. Im flummoxed on the extension.

 

[Le Grille]

I might be especially hard on Brad but I just cant see it, the JLT performance whilst not everything was disappointing and the easy fixes, press conference jibberish isn't what I want for the club. I don't care about the record this year but I want to see development.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

I might be especially hard on Brad but I just cant see it, the JLT performance whilst not everything was disappointing and the easy fixes, press conference jibberish isn't what I want for the club. I don't care about the record this year but I want to see development.

Issues still apparent under his tutelage:

Unable to prevent run ons.
Transition defence.
Mismatches in defence.
Inability to create turnovers.

 

[roojor]

The game has changed for the time being only need one tall forward all lots of medium quick players who can hit a target. All the good teams of the last five years have at least two or three players who gather 25plus processions and then deliver the football. Until we get these types of player we are trending water .

 

[bendad]

There is definitely a difference in the list profile (as a previous poster mentioned). Back in 2010 we had very few players with 100+ games, then a huge gap, then a heap of kids. We have a stronger senior group now who have played a fair bit of footy together. We don't have Boomer either, of course.

My strongest memory from the 2010/11 team was total lack of run. We would play good contested footy for a period, but couldn't capitalise when we were on top. And we were totally uncompetitive with the top teams. We were barely playing the same sport. I think 2012 we finally managed to knock someone off, maybe Geelong early and then Collingwood in a Saturday night game which was just such an enjoyable win at the time.

I think there is more to like in the current team, but the league is more competitive. There aren't really any easy wins this year. But we have experience in some of the positions that are much harder for kids to come in and perform well at (key position, inside mid). So I think there is a lot of scope to improve.

It's hard to see where a cup is coming from though. We need people to become stars, and I don't know who it is going to be. LDU, Simpkin are our great hopes, but it is just hope now. In 2010 it was Ziebell and Cunnington, and it would be fair to say that hasn't worked out.

Hmm. So in summary I have no idea.

 

[Le Grille]

I want to know what Brad wants to do that if different to the first cycle he presided over.

 

[andana]

Part of that was due to either poor drafting/development/talent identification. Jesse was a big blow as he could have been anything but the amount of players we did draft for myriad reasons have not come on as required.

There is still hope for Garner/Wood/Durdin/EVH/Neilsen/ and potentially Hibberd/Clarke/McKay but most clubs have solid contributors from this timeline, but you cant definitively say any of those people have proven to be a proven week in week out contributors, not to mention the others in that timeline who weren't up to it. To me this falls on Coaching/Fitness staff and talent identification but there has been little turnover in the people responsible for those areas.
Im finding it hard to expect anything different in this cycle

We got Durdin with pick 16 in the 2014 draft. Not many good players after that EVW and Neilson from that same draft. The guys we delisted maybe six weren't much good.

 

[Le Grille]

We got Durdin with pick 16 in the 2014 draft. Not many good players after that EVW and Neilson from that same draft. The guys we delisted maybe six weren't much good.

There are plenty of players that have been solid from that area but 4 years on the list and to only play a handful of games whether its injury/performance or capability is just not good enough, the Footy Department, Medical Staff and Coaching Staff are more or less the same, why do we expect any difference in this cycle

 

[spurs]

Which suggests to me a year where we are just treading water.

The thought we'll get 3-4 gun draft picks is wishful thinking - we might, but recent history suggests very rarely do that well in a single year. Same with free agents, or even trades - if last year's events tell us anything, it's that you can't assume we'll get anyone.

I'm resigned to finishing 12-15 this year - not happy about it - but I'll live with it as long as there is some improvement from younger players. But I already have an uneasy feeling about 2020.

3-4 gun draft picks isn't wishful thinking over the next 2 years.

IF we finish 15th-18th we will get a gun and then Thomas on top of that, anything else is cream. 2019 we might finish a little higher around say 12th-15th but will still be high enough in the draft to get one gun, maybe 2. So, you have your 3-4 young guns and 2-3 free agents over the next 2-3 years. 5 guns plus LDU, Cunners, JZ, Brown and others who will surprise us as very good footballers with maturity.

WE will be top 8 by 2020, we just need to be patient.

 

[Le Grille]

3-4 gun draft picks isn't wishful thinking over the next 2 years.

IF we finish 15th-18th we will get a gun and then Thomas on top of that, anything else is cream. 2019 we might finish a little higher around say 12th-15th but will still be high enough in the draft to get one gun, maybe 2. So, you have your 3-4 young guns and 2-3 free agents over the next 2-3 years. 5 guns plus LDU, Cunners, JZ, Brown and others who will surprise us as very good footballers with maturity.

WE will be top 8 by 2020, we just need to be patient.

That's great but do you think we can do better in the years that follow. Does the current set up have the ability to take that further than just sneaking into 8th?

 

[spurs]

That's great but do you think we can do better in the years that follow. Does the current set up have the ability to take that further than just sneaking into 8th?

Yes I do, we have drafted a spine over the last 4 years, it's just a case of time to develop Durdin, Neilsen, EVW and McKay down back. Taz will be 31 in 2020 but he did have a delay to his career which hopefully prolongs it until he's 33ish. Brown and Wood as our forward set up, although I think we will throw the kitchen sink at Lynch to add to this. If not Lynch, we will use JZ and Cunners up forward. That's why our midfield should be awesome by 2020. Throw in LDU, McDonald, pick 1-3 this year or pick 1-5 next year and we have a very good midfield. Add a Kelly and/or Sloane type into the mix and we are going to be very hard to beat.

 

[Le Grille]

Yes I do, we have drafted a spine over the last 4 years, it's just a case of time to develop Durdin, Neilsen, EVW and McKay down back. Taz will be 31 in 2020 but he did have a delay to his career which hopefully prolongs it until he's 33ish. Brown and Wood as our forward set up, although I think we will throw the kitchen sink at Lynch to add to this. If not Lynch, we will use JZ and Cunners up forward. That's why our midfield should be awesome by 2020. Throw in LDU, McDonald, pick 1-3 this year or pick 1-5 next year and we have a very good midfield. Add a Kelly and/or Sloane type into the mix and we are going to be very hard to beat.

I hope you are right, I hope these guys develop as hoped however no matter how good the spine is, to me the fact that teams waltz the ball out of their midfield is the key, you can fill the back line with HOFers but if the ball just continually streams in there we will get smashed.

Cunnington is a start, Jacobs being fit will be a plus. but in terms of stopping opposition run on our much vaunted inside midfield core aren't nearly as good as we think. LDU is great start but if we cant develop him and any new additions then we are stuffed.

 

[spurs]

I hope you are right, I hope these guys develop as hoped however no matter how good the spine is, to me the fact that teams waltz the ball out of their midfield is the key, you can fill the back line with HOFers but if the ball just continually streams in there we will get smashed.

Cunnington is a start, Jacobs being fit will be a plus. but in terms of stopping opposition run on our much vaunted inside midfield core aren't nearly as good as we think. LDU is great start but if we cant develop him and any new additions then we are stuffed.

In the short term we are stuffed. Cunners and JZ do not have the tank to play midfield both ways. Dumont is another with a limited tank. All three are great on the inside but not outside, that's why LDU, McDonald and hopefully Simpkin will add to this.

We need another 2 gun midfielders who run both ways and IMO that will happen in the draft and free agency over the coming years.

 

[Le Grille]

In the short term we are stuffed. Cunners and JZ do not have the tank to play midfield both ways. Dumont is another with a limited tank. All three are great on the inside but not outside, that's why LDU, McDonald and hopefully Simpkin will add to this.

We need another 2 gun midfielders who run both ways and IMO that will happen in the draft and free agency over the coming years.

Id argue that we need more, but we have to be able to identify the right ones. Can we do that?

 

[Tas]

The game has changed for the time being only need one tall forward all lots of medium quick players who can hit a target. All the good teams of the last five years have at least two or three players who gather 25plus processions and then deliver the football. Until we get these types of player we are trending water .

I think a lot more of our players would get a lot more of the ball if they weren't as focused on guarding empty space and being in no-man's land on the turnover.

 

[Pykie]

Staggering that we are in this position, again, after such a short period of time.

It's because we rebuilt too quickly tbh, we rose to mid table mediocrity too fast.

A lot of posters are making the same mistakes in most of the commentary I'm reading in a lot of threads recently.

We essentially had two years of high draft picks (Ziebell and Cunnington), realistically, only Cunnington was a relatively high draft pick.

Ziebell has been a major disappointment to date compared to what he potentially appeared to be as a 1st and 2nd year player.

It's insane some people actually expect/want us to rise back up the ladder as early as next year.


The list is nowhere near ready for it, it would simply rehash 2010/2011 again.

We need 4 years of top 5 picks imo to really have a base of sustained (I'm talking a decade) contending finals potential.

 

[naturally north]

It's because we rebuilt too quickly tbh, we rose to mid table mediocrity too fast.

A lot of posters are making the same mistakes in most of the commentary I'm reading in a lot of threads recently.

We essentially had two years of high draft picks (Ziebell and Cunnington), realistically, only Cunnington was a relatively high draft pick.

Ziebell has been a major disappointment to date compared to what he potentially appeared to be as a 1st and 2nd year player.

It's insane some people actually expect/want us to rise back up the ladder as early as next year.


The list is nowhere near ready for it, it would simply rehash 2010/2011 again.

We need 4 years of top 5 picks imo to really have a base of sustained (I'm talking a decade) contending finals potential.

We have won 50.3 % of our games under Scott, that sets you up for an era of middling finishes on field and at the Draft and is a tough cycle to break. You are correct we've had two early picks and I believe internally we thought McDonald was a second rounder, but we all know what happened there.

Gold Coast had four top ten draft picks in 2016, we went 12,34 and 36.

2015 pick 21 last time I checked that's a second round pick.
2014 pick 16
2012 pick 15
2011 pick 18
2010 pick 17

I'm not as tough on our drafting as others mainly due to the s**t positions we had our picks. Although our efforts at improving our draft positions is extremely poor. IMO.

As for those questioning Brad Scott still being our coach," who the * else is there"? I was taken aback. Sheesh no need for the anger.

We do need to spend 2018, 2019 rooted to the foot of the ladder- start our climb 2020, in fairness our off field stuff has been awesome and that helps set you up for success on field. So hasn't been a complete waste of time...... feels like it I know.

How far off a priority pick would we be if we follow the script and finish lowly again in 2018, anyone?

 

[spurs]

Id argue that we need more, but we have to be able to identify the right ones. Can we do that?

Yes we can:

Free agents first

2018 list
Daulhaus
Gaff
Lynch

2019 list
Lachie Neale
Dylan Shiel
Stephen Cognilio
Sam Day
Jack Gunston
Chad Wingard


Out of contract 2019 but need to trade for them:
Fogarty - love the look of him.
Ben Keays
Paddy Dow
Peter Wright
Jack Billings
The Bont

I know some on this list will not come BUT money talks, and we have shitloads of that.

 

[Le Grille]

I'm not as tough on our drafting as others mainly due to the s**t positions we had our picks. Although our efforts at improving our draft positions is extremely poor. IMO.

As for those questioning Brad Scott still being our coach," who the **** else is there"? I was taken aback. Sheesh no need for the anger.

The draft picks excuse only go so far, we have players drafted as far as 2012 that still haven't been able to play or command regular senior football. Plenty lower end picks have been able to pay regular solid footy. That talks to the three areas I mentioned earlier.

Sorry are you pro/anti scott.

I am concerned with the on field infrastructure in terms of coaching/FD/conditioning. Im not sure they are the ones for the next rebuild

 

[naturally north]

The draft picks excuse only go so far, we have players drafted as far as 2012 that still haven't been able to play or command regular senior football. Plenty lower end picks have been able to pay regular solid footy. That talks to the three areas I mentioned earlier.

Sorry are you pro/anti scott.

My concern that I am concerned with the on field infrastructure in terms of coaching/FD/conditioning. Im not sure they are the ones for the next rebuild

I'm not pro Scott, he doesn't deserve the gig until 2020, has never finished the season in the top 4 after H&A. He's a limited coach and doesn't like making tough decisions.


As for the draft picks.... you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, we offered two guys millions that went pick 2 and 4- not a coincidence mate.

Yep the lower end picks are those players that have enabled us to remain middling, I also know we didn't want to fall to the bottom, it's cost us.

 

[Le Grille]

I'm not pro Scott, he doesn't deserve the gig until 2020, has never finished the season in the top 4 after H&A. He's a limited coach and doesn't like making tough decisions.


As for the draft picks.... you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, we offered two guys millions that went pick 2 and 4- not a coincidence mate.

Yep the lower end picks are those players that have enabled us to remain middling, I also know we didn't want to fall to the bottom, it's cost us.

But even then, the balance of those picks were all arse about, the gamble of 3 med/tall defenders didn't pay off. The FD needs to be held accountable

 

[big_e]

Yes we can:

Free agents first

2018 list
Daulhaus
Gaff
Lynch

2019 list
Lachie Neale
Dylan Shiel
Stephen Cognilio
Sam Day
Jack Gunston
Chad Wingard


Out of contract 2019 but need to trade for them:
Fogarty - love the look of him.
Ben Keays
Paddy Dow
Peter Wright
Jack Billings
The Bont

I know some on this list will not come BUT money talks, and we have shitloads of that.

You can identify as many players as you like - the important thing is getting them to the club.

 

[naturally north]

But even then, the balance of those picks were all arse about, the gamble of 3 med/tall defenders didn't pay off. The FD needs to be held accountable

Absolutely, but our picks are what they are. The very best had long gone by our turn, did you see this side on AFL..... not flash or near top 4 contention.





Best 22 – round one
B: Marley Williams, Robbie Tarrant, Ed Vickers-Willis
HB: Jamie Macmillan, Scott Thompson, Luke McDonald
C: Billy Hartung, Ben Cunnington, Jy Simpkin
HF: Shaun Atley, Jarrad Waite, Mason Wood
F: Taylor Garner, Ben Brown, Kayne Turner
Foll: Todd Goldstein, Jack Ziebell, Shaun Higgins
I/C: Luke Davies-Uniacke, Ben Jacobs, Sam Durdin, Ryan Clarke

 

[Gasometer]

There could be a link between 2010 and 2017...the Coach.

Has anyone thought of that?

Huh?

 

[Elite Master]

There is still hope for Garner/Wood/Durdin/EVH/Neilsen/ and potentially Hibberd/Clarke/McKay

Still very early I know but can only see 3 of those at best doing anything of note, them being Garner, Wood and Clarke. Even then I struggle to see any of them becoming A-Graders.