Autopsy 54 point loss to Fremantle

[BRWB]

Wouldn't most clubs be reliant on their c and d graders with 12 ish players on injury list with majority being best 22 players? You can argue they'd still be potentially playing even if the injury list was reduced but in that case they'd be relegated to C and D grade roles, rather than trying to move up and fill the void.

I would argue that our injury list is a concern. We have been very (overly?) patient with a number of seemingly chronically injured players - that is a concern.

On top of that, the fact that we have a team overstocked with timid and/or mediocre giants is also a concern.

Replace a couple of talls and a couple of perpetually injured players with a handful of mature and experienced even B grade mids and fwds who could kick and we would be travelling a lot better.

So yeah, I suppose it is concerning that C and D grade mids are playing so much.

 

[True Dog]

I’m not sure where I sit re the blame game but what we dished up Saturday night stunk!!! I’m a Bevo believer but our football department is in need of serious update/review. The decisions made over a long period of time have baffled many here and are certainly not above questioning? Let’s hope there’s method in our madness

 

[perro_loco]

Which is why MD is right, a big part of the reason why the team is different is due to mismanagement of the team and players.

evidence please. I would not use Barrett as a source of ethical media reporting. teams that lose really experienced players struggle. we are not a basket case, we have a young inexperienced team with lots of injuries. 13 as of last Saturday. luckily it may be that Williams, Trengove, crozier, and hunter may be back. that will change things

 

[perro_loco]

Wrong again....

The myth of mass lemming suicide began when the Walt Disney movie, Wild Wilderness was released in 1958. It was filmed in Alberta, Canada, far from the sea and not a native home to lemmings. So the filmmakers imported lemmings, by buying them from Inuit children. The migration sequence was filmed by placing the lemmings on a spinning turntable that was covered with snow, and then shooting it from many different angles. The cliff-death-plunge sequence was done by herding the lemmings over a small cliff into a river. It's easy to understand why the filmmakers did this - wild animals are notoriously uncooperative, and a migration-of-doom followed by a cliff-of-death sequence is far more dramatic to show than the lemmings' self-implemented population-density management plan.

So lemmings do not commit mass suicide. Indeed, animals live to thrive and survive. Consider a company like Disney, where one rodent, namely Mickey Mouse, was Royalty. It's rather odd to think that Disney could be so unkind to another rodent, the lemming...

by the way, excellent rebuttal and explanation

 

[wayniac]

Hahahahaha you assume that’s what I meant

Like I’d call anyone on here a king

But nice story

Not a story, a fact. Something you still don't understand. Keep on ignoramusing..

 

[TMoney22]

evidence please. I would not use Barrett as a source of ethical media reporting. teams that lose really experienced players struggle. we are not a basket case, we have a young inexperienced team with lots of injuries. 13 as of last Saturday. luckily it may be that Williams, Trengove, crozier, and hunter may be back. that will change things

The evidence has been done to death in many threads so i'm not going to waste my time. And no its not Barrett's BS.

 

[_M_16_]

The evidence has been done to death in many threads so i'm not going to waste my time. And no its not Barrett's BS.

No it hasn't, its been said to death on repeat without hardly anyone providing any proof, sources, or examples in which to back their view

If not that, then its shoving it aside and putting it onto others to provide. If someone challenges you, you best be ready prepared to provide something or don't bother. Avoiding the question or handballing it off is just lazy in my opinion

Everyone is allowed an opinion, everything is open for debate. Unfortunately these days people are no longer accountable or provide facts or sources to arguments. Just look at modern American Culture for example, everyone just spews sh*t with no facts, or ignore facts altogether and abuse people when challenged, its dangerous and wrong

If you have examples, knowledge or whatever of mismanagement etc, feel free to share it. Otherwise don't be one of those "the sky is falling at the Bulldogs" innuendo type people, say something and then run and hide. Even the club and players are sick of it all, and personally I'd trust the players more than many so called fans

 

[TMoney22]

No it hasn't, its been said to death on repeat without hardly anyone providing any proof, sources, or examples in which to back their view

If not that, then its shoving it aside and putting it onto others to provide. If someone challenges you, you best be ready prepared to provide something or don't bother. Avoiding the question or handballing it off is just lazy in my opinion

Everyone is allowed an opinion, everything is open for debate. Unfortunately these days people are no longer accountable or provide facts or sources to arguments. Just look at modern American Culture for example, everyone just spews sh*t with no facts, or ignore facts altogether and abuse people when challenged, its dangerous and wrong

If you have examples, knowledge or whatever of mismanagement etc, feel free to share it. Otherwise don't be one of those "the sky is falling at the Bulldogs" innuendo type people, say something and then run and hide. Even the club and players are sick of it all, and personally I'd trust the players more tha-n many so called fans

Well if they are going to criticise then they should read all threads, so fine i'll waste my time., here is a list of "mismanagement" from the outside. These have been said my numerous posters, not just me.

- coaching changes
- Stringer
- relationship of Dalrymple and McCartney
- the workplace hierarchy of Dalrymple and McCartney
- CEO's coming and going
- human rights to get Brennan off tribunal charge
- treatment of AFLX
- Giving Campbell and Lynch a contract when Bev was never going to play him
- Alberti
- Sending M.Boyd to the VFL for most of 2016 when he was clearly a better option
- 2016 form of Libba, C.Smith, Dahlhaus, Biggs, Stringer. You dont just drop form like that, there is a reason what ever that may be
- party habits of some players
- Balance of the team, too tall, no speed, lack of 25-29 year olds
- treatment off JJ when he was getting a hard tag - not moving him
- Boyd and Schache with serious issues. Plus Cloke
- Limited recruiting/development of top end KF's and aboriginal players
- Bont playing ruck
- Redpath playing a practice game while suspended
- perception of boys club / ex players getting jobs.
- not fully capitalising on the premiership off field.
- Mckinley and the banners, why stop something that works
- bullying ??
- losing Hamling and almost Adams
- Bobfest
- Jong's little tour
- silence and closed training during the offseason
- milking $ from supports to have a photo with the cup
- recent dealings with Barrett, should have been shut down a long time ago, but we let this fester
- KPDs with poor kicking skills
- not being reactive to opposition strategies in 2016. Eg, Melbourne having 2 players come off back off HB at bounces. Not changing to a tag
- maybe not going hard enough for players who fit what we need. D.Smith, Saad
- and a constant feel of being bent over by the afl, why? is it because of how we act off field? who knows
- goal kicking consistently a problem
- Not having an experienced senior assistant coach or footy dept leader
- Monty leaving in the finals

i've probably missed some but thats a fair list in 2 or so years. And i know some of them are picky but they all contribute to some form of mismanagement. Good teams and cultures just work things out - maybe not all, but most things.

As i said, these aren't just mine so don't crack the sads to the things listed

 

[David Schwarz]

What on earth does KOTL mean??

 

[Mattdougie]

Well if they are going to criticise then they should read all threads, so fine i'll waste my time., here is a list of "mismanagement" from the outside. These have been said my numerous posters, not just me.

- coaching changes
- Stringer
- relationship of Dalrymple and McCartney
- the workplace hierarchy of Dalrymple and McCartney
- CEO's coming and going
- human rights to get Brennan off tribunal charge
- treatment of AFLX
- Giving Campbell and Lynch a contract when Bev was never going to play him
- Alberti
- Sending M.Boyd to the VFL for most of 2016 when he was clearly a better option
- 2016 form of Libba, C.Smith, Dahlhaus, Biggs, Stringer. You dont just drop form like that, there is a reason what ever that may be
- party habits of some players
- Balance of the team, too tall, no speed, lack of 25-29 year olds
- treatment off JJ when he was getting a hard tag - not moving him
- Boyd and Schache with serious issues. Plus Cloke
- Limited recruiting/development of top end KF's and aboriginal players
- Bont playing ruck
- Redpath playing a practice game while suspended
- perception of boys club / ex players getting jobs.
- not fully capitalising on the premiership off field.
- Mckinley and the banners, why stop something that works
- bullying ??
- losing Hamling and almost Adams
- Bobfest
- Jong's little tour
- silence and closed training during the offseason
- milking $ from supports to have a photo with the cup
- recent dealings with Barrett, should have been shut down a long time ago, but we let this fester
- KPDs with poor kicking skills
- not being reactive to opposition strategies in 2016. Eg, Melbourne having 2 players come off back off HB at bounces. Not changing to a tag
- maybe not going hard enough for players who fit what we need. D.Smith, Saad
- and a constant feel of being bent over by the afl, why? is it because of how we act off field? who knows
- goal kicking consistently a problem
- Not having an experienced senior assistant coach or footy dept leader
- Monty leaving in the finals

i've probably missed some but thats a fair list in 2 or so years. And i know some of them are picky but they all contribute to some form of mismanagement. Good teams and cultures just work things out - maybe not all, but most things.

As i said, these aren't just mine so don't crack the sads to the things listed

But everything is ok apparently ?

 

[Yojimbo]

What on earth does KOTL mean??

a- King of the lemmings.
b- Keep on talking loser.
or c- Kindness overcomes true loss.
or d- Kiss on the lips
KOTL can and does cover the full range of human emotion.

 

[coxman]

12 of our players on the weekend have played 50 games or less, 5 players 50 to 100 games, 5 players 100 to 150 games, not to make excuses but i'm not surprised about the losses but the big margins do bother me

 

[TiAn_]

Which is why MD is right, a big part of the reason why the team is different is due to mismanagement of the team and players.

Don’t fall into the trap of parroting nonsense in the wake of a bad loss. A broken clock is right twice a day and that’s a far better strike rate than the permanently pessimistic crowd on here.

Well if they are going to criticise then they should read all threads, so fine i'll waste my time., here is a list of "mismanagement" from the outside. These have been said my numerous posters, not just me.

- coaching changes
- Stringer
- relationship of Dalrymple and McCartney
- the workplace hierarchy of Dalrymple and McCartney
- CEO's coming and going
- human rights to get Brennan off tribunal charge
- treatment of AFLX
- Giving Campbell and Lynch a contract when Bev was never going to play him
- Alberti
- Sending M.Boyd to the VFL for most of 2016 when he was clearly a better option
- 2016 form of Libba, C.Smith, Dahlhaus, Biggs, Stringer. You dont just drop form like that, there is a reason what ever that may be
- party habits of some players
- Balance of the team, too tall, no speed, lack of 25-29 year olds
- treatment off JJ when he was getting a hard tag - not moving him
- Boyd and Schache with serious issues. Plus Cloke
- Limited recruiting/development of top end KF's and aboriginal players
- Bont playing ruck
- Redpath playing a practice game while suspended
- perception of boys club / ex players getting jobs.
- not fully capitalising on the premiership off field.
- Mckinley and the banners, why stop something that works
- bullying ??
- losing Hamling and almost Adams
- Bobfest
- Jong's little tour
- silence and closed training during the offseason
- milking $ from supports to have a photo with the cup
- recent dealings with Barrett, should have been shut down a long time ago, but we let this fester
- KPDs with poor kicking skills
- not being reactive to opposition strategies in 2016. Eg, Melbourne having 2 players come off back off HB at bounces. Not changing to a tag
- maybe not going hard enough for players who fit what we need. D.Smith, Saad
- and a constant feel of being bent over by the afl, why? is it because of how we act off field? who knows
- goal kicking consistently a problem
- Not having an experienced senior assistant coach or footy dept leader
- Monty leaving in the finals

i've probably missed some but thats a fair list in 2 or so years. And i know some of them are picky but they all contribute to some form of mismanagement. Good teams and cultures just work things out - maybe not all, but most things.

As i said, these aren't just mine so don't crack the sads to the things listed

Hardly any of that is relevant to the team that's being put out on the park.

I agree that a range of off-field issues unrelated to the construction of the team have been mismanaged (I'm an unabashed Gordon critic), but as far as the product on-field goes the ravages of time and injury have had a real impact, whereas “mismanagement” has played little or no part.

If you can’t see that the main difference between this current team and the premiership team is the absence of the leadership and stellar performances of 2016 Morris, Moyd, Picken, Roughead, Smith, Dickson, Stringer and Libba (even Murphy in the background) then I don’t know what to tell you. If someone had a plan for replacing all of those players in the space of 2 off-seasons (and a magic potion for preventing some of those replacements in Trengove and Crozier from getting injured already this year) they really should have shared it with the club.

I'm tipping the list gets cleaned out further at the end of this season and re-balance now that we've found a number of talented KP players to try and build around (English, Naughton, Boyd, Cordy, Young, Adams, Schache). We've found a group of potentially long-term players for the hardest positions to fill on the ground and don't need all of them to work out for it to be a good crop.

Adding West and some other draftees at the end of this year and padding out the list around the KPs with some mids & small forwards from other clubs/state leagues looking for opportunities will easily balance it out.

There's about 100 years of history that says having your bookends sorted is key to sustained success. We're on the verge of achieving that for the first time in recent memory, but looking too closely at every negative or positive thing, or even every win and loss, will just leaving you failing to see the forrest for the trees.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Well if they are going to criticise then they should read all threads, so fine i'll waste my time., here is a list of "mismanagement" from the outside. These have been said my numerous posters, not just me.

- coaching changes
- Stringer
- relationship of Dalrymple and McCartney
- the workplace hierarchy of Dalrymple and McCartney
- CEO's coming and going
- human rights to get Brennan off tribunal charge
- treatment of AFLX
- Giving Campbell and Lynch a contract when Bev was never going to play him
- Alberti
- Sending M.Boyd to the VFL for most of 2016 when he was clearly a better option
- 2016 form of Libba, C.Smith, Dahlhaus, Biggs, Stringer. You dont just drop form like that, there is a reason what ever that may be
- party habits of some players
- Balance of the team, too tall, no speed, lack of 25-29 year olds
- treatment off JJ when he was getting a hard tag - not moving him
- Boyd and Schache with serious issues. Plus Cloke
- Limited recruiting/development of top end KF's and aboriginal players
- Bont playing ruck
- Redpath playing a practice game while suspended
- perception of boys club / ex players getting jobs.
- not fully capitalising on the premiership off field.
- Mckinley and the banners, why stop something that works
- bullying ??
- losing Hamling and almost Adams
- Bobfest
- Jong's little tour
- silence and closed training during the offseason
- milking $ from supports to have a photo with the cup
- recent dealings with Barrett, should have been shut down a long time ago, but we let this fester
- KPDs with poor kicking skills
- not being reactive to opposition strategies in 2016. Eg, Melbourne having 2 players come off back off HB at bounces. Not changing to a tag
- maybe not going hard enough for players who fit what we need. D.Smith, Saad
- and a constant feel of being bent over by the afl, why? is it because of how we act off field? who knows
- goal kicking consistently a problem
- Not having an experienced senior assistant coach or footy dept leader
- Monty leaving in the finals

i've probably missed some but thats a fair list in 2 or so years. And i know some of them are picky but they all contribute to some form of mismanagement. Good teams and cultures just work things out - maybe not all, but most things.

As i said, these aren't just mine so don't crack the sads to the things listed

So many issues after a flag.
A lot of posters have shared that view.

What is the most important issue ?

And who is most at fault for these problems?

 

[Braybrook Son]

Well if they are going to criticise then they should read all threads, so fine i'll waste my time., here is a list of "mismanagement" from the outside. These have been said my numerous posters, not just me.

- coaching changes
- Stringer
- relationship of Dalrymple and McCartney
- the workplace hierarchy of Dalrymple and McCartney
- CEO's coming and going
- human rights to get Brennan off tribunal charge
- treatment of AFLX
- Giving Campbell and Lynch a contract when Bev was never going to play him
- Alberti
- Sending M.Boyd to the VFL for most of 2016 when he was clearly a better option
- 2016 form of Libba, C.Smith, Dahlhaus, Biggs, Stringer. You dont just drop form like that, there is a reason what ever that may be
- party habits of some players
- Balance of the team, too tall, no speed, lack of 25-29 year olds
- treatment off JJ when he was getting a hard tag - not moving him
- Boyd and Schache with serious issues. Plus Cloke
- Limited recruiting/development of top end KF's and aboriginal players
- Bont playing ruck
- Redpath playing a practice game while suspended
- perception of boys club / ex players getting jobs.
- not fully capitalising on the premiership off field.
- Mckinley and the banners, why stop something that works
- bullying ??
- losing Hamling and almost Adams
- Bobfest
- Jong's little tour
- silence and closed training during the offseason
- milking $ from supports to have a photo with the cup
- recent dealings with Barrett, should have been shut down a long time ago, but we let this fester
- KPDs with poor kicking skills
- not being reactive to opposition strategies in 2016. Eg, Melbourne having 2 players come off back off HB at bounces. Not changing to a tag
- maybe not going hard enough for players who fit what we need. D.Smith, Saad
- and a constant feel of being bent over by the afl, why? is it because of how we act off field? who knows
- goal kicking consistently a problem
- Not having an experienced senior assistant coach or footy dept leader
- Monty leaving in the finals

i've probably missed some but thats a fair list in 2 or so years. And i know some of them are picky but they all contribute to some form of mismanagement. Good teams and cultures just work things out - maybe not all, but most things.

As i said, these aren't just mine so don't crack the sads to the things listed

Nice summary of the list mate, I don’t agree that M.Boyd should’ve been in the seniors more last year, he became a liability and the VFL was correct in my opinion, most other points I agree with and or are a problem. The club leaves a lot to be desired in a lot of facets the last few years and even in the last 10-20 years. I really wish we ran the place a lot more professionally like say Hawthorn do, but then I guess we haven’t got a Kennett running the club. I love what Peter Gordon has done for the club, but he is also killing it!

 

[Braybrook Son]

So many issues after a flag.
A lot of posters have shared that view.

What is the most important issue ?

And who is most at fault for these problems?

It starts at the head for most of these problems mate, Peter Gordon, but I feel if we lose him, we replace him with worse!

 

[Braybrook Son]

Don’t fall into the trap of parroting nonsense in the wake of a bad loss. A broken clock is right twice a day and that’s a far better strike rate than the permanently pessimistic crowd on here.



Hardly any of that is relevant to the team that's being put out on the park.

I agree that a range of off-field issues unrelated to the construction of the team have been mismanaged (I'm an unabashed Gordon critic), but as far as the product on-field goes the ravages of time and injury have had a real impact, whereas “mismanagement” has played little or no part.

If you can’t see that the main difference between this current team and the premiership team is the absence of the leadership and stellar performances of 2016 Morris, Moyd, Picken, Roughead, Smith, Dickson, Stringer and Libba (even Murphy in the background) then I don’t know what to tell you. If someone had a plan for replacing all of those players in the space of 2 off-seasons (and a magic potion for preventing some of those replacements in Trengove and Crozier from getting injured already this year) they really should have shared it with the club.

I'm tipping the list gets cleaned out further at the end of this season and re-balance now that we've found a number of talented KP players to try and build around (English, Naughton, Boyd, Cordy, Young, Adams, Schache). We've found a group of potentially long-term players for the hardest positions to fill on the ground and don't need all of them to work out for it to be a good crop.

Adding West and some other draftees at the end of this year and padding out the list around the KPs with some mids & small forwards from other clubs/state leagues looking for opportunities will easily balance it out.

There's about 100 years of history that says having your bookends sorted is key to sustained success. We're on the verge of achieving that for the first time in recent memory, but looking too closely at every negative or positive thing, or even every win and loss, will just leaving you failing to see the forrest for the trees.

Very good post mate with some great points regarding our KP players!

 

[perro_loco]

The evidence has been done to death in many threads so i'm not going to waste my time. And no its not Barrett's BS.

all I can say is that the world is a much better place than what we think. and our club is in a lot better space than before. we have great young players and good coaches. do we need to improve, obviously but we are not a basket case. evidence please or it is just conjecture.

 

[cecil]

Well if they are going to criticise then they should read all threads, so fine i'll waste my time., here is a list of "mismanagement" from the outside. These have been said my numerous posters, not just me.

- Stringer
I feel a bit of water to go under the bridge still with this one. We could even win the trade.

- relationship of Dalrymple and McCartney
They worked together for like 5 years. I would suggest the effects were probably overstated.

- the workplace hierarchy of Dalrymple and McCartney
Definitely think Grant isn't the strong figure to control such a scenario. Although it seems this issue has been resolved in the new structure with Power overseeing both areas.

- CEO's coming and going
Kent was always just temporary. So since Garlick we've had Stephenson not work out. Hardly the worst. Pretty sure Hawthorn have had the same issue.

- human rights to get Brennan off tribunal charge
A lot of people are in support of this. I suspect peoples thoughts on it are probably in line with their political views. Very few times does a club take on the club and win like that though.

- treatment of AFLX
I don't get this. We basically treated it like we have always treated at least 1 JLT game. Getting flogged wasn't ideal, but noone cared about the concept at all.

- Giving Campbell and Lynch a contract when Bev was never going to play him
Campbell was resigned in 2016, and spent half the year as our first choice ruck. When he was resigned it couldn't have been projected that Roughead would overtake him, Boyd would have a coming of age, the #1 18yo ruckman in the country would slide to our pick, and Port Adelaides then #1 ruck would be available on the cheap a year later. Once all this went down we tried to trade him to Brisbane last year but it didn't eventuate. RE: Lynch. We always give rookies a long time. Smith/Prudden/Pearce/Goodes/JJ/Jong/Redpath

- Alberti
That wreaked of Susan not liking not having accreditation, when it was her first year of it not being automatic, then cracking it when it wasn't sorted. Definitely an issue between her and Gordon, but he's reached out and she hasn't accepted, so it looks bad on her.

- Sending M.Boyd to the VFL for most of 2016 when he was clearly a better option
You mean 2017. Almost everyone on here was calling for him to be dropped. He was cooked.

- 2016 form of Libba, C.Smith, Dahlhaus, Biggs, Stringer. You dont just drop form like that, there is a reason what ever that may be
Smith has just got married/won a premiership/lost his best mate. A lot of players wouldn't come back from that emotional rollercoaster in the right frame of mind. Stringer was down for now obvious reasons, and it's not been almost two full years since he was consistently good. The other three are the renowned party boys of the club, pretty easy to join the dots. The club can't force them to do the right thing.

- party habits of some players
As above. It'd be the same for every team.

- Balance of the team, too tall, no speed, lack of 25-29 year olds
Agree about the balance. We can't get it right, although injuries do cause this at times. The lack of 25-29yo's is a result of list decisions made years ago, not now.

- Boyd and Schache with serious issues. Plus Cloke
Schache's issues were from before he came here. Mental health issues would be widespread through the league, and will become increasingly reported.

- perception of boys club / ex players getting jobs.
This is an AFL-wide problem, not just us.

- not fully capitalising on the premiership off field.
How is this even remotely true? Our club is in the best financial position it ever has been. Record membership last year, basically debt free, huge Whitten Oval deal sorted, increased sponsorship via AFLW etc etc

- bullying ??
Not sure what this is referring to?

- losing Hamling and almost Adams
Hamling left to go be with his terminally ill father. How can you blame the club for that?

- Jong's little tour
This happens through the league all the time.

- milking $ from supports to have a photo with the cup
For a few hours on one day. Every other day since has been totally free.

- Monty leaving in the finals
The new rules state that we had to let him know if his contract was being renewed by that point of the year. Interestingly he went from being one of the "next AFL coaches" to not getting a gig even as a development coach the next year. Something went on there.

And i know some of them are picky but they all contribute to some form of mismanagement. Good teams and cultures just work things out - maybe not all, but most things.

As i said, these aren't just mine so don't crack the sads to the things listed

The thing is most of that list is either debatable, of borderline laughable.

 

[Dry Rot]

I know we've won a flag since, but the club has never been the same since Trent Bartlett and Kingsley Hunter left.

 

[dogwatch]

The thing is most of that list is either debatable, of borderline laughable.

M_16 asked for some fact-based evidence. Rattling off a grab-bag of one-liners is not a self evident proof. Punters being gullible to that sort of thinking is what made Cambridge Analytica so successful.

Anyway the original claim that TMoney was trying to provide evidence for, was mismanagement of the team and players. I don't see how Alberti not getting in the VIP gate in any way supports that claim. Or whether or not we have had 1 or 3 CEOs. Or whether Danny McGinlay is still doing the banners.

I'm open to persuasion on this question (i.e. whether we have mismanaged team and players) but I haven't seen anything to suggest it's not the usual mix of mistakes, mundanities and masterstrokes that you get from just about any AFL club administration.

I'm often critical of the club in certain areas and of Beveridge and other WB people in certain actions, but I don't readily buy the sensationalist "club is in crisis" or "club is chronically incompetent" claims. They have in fact got a lot right over the last few years as any sort of historical perspective should show. On-field success, record membership, erasure of long term debt and strong community involvement would surely be the top four KPIs any club would want to tick off.

Sure it'd would've been nice to go back-to-back in 2017 but gee, we can be incredibly harsh and shortsighted sometimes!

 

[cecil]

I know we've won a flag since, but the club has never been the same since Trent Bartlett and Kingsley Hunter left.

The good old days. What's this recruiting #1 draft pick KPF's business!

 

[Dry Rot]

The good old days. What's this recruiting #1 draft pick KPF's business!

Bring Daniel Bandy out of retirement!

 

[Dry Rot]

M_16 asked for some fact-based evidence. Rattling off a grab-bag of one-liners is not a self evident proof. Punters being gullible to that sort of thinking is what made Cambridge Analytica so successful.

Anyway the original claim that TMoney was trying to provide evidence for, was mismanagement of the team and players. I don't see how Alberti not getting in the VIP gate in any way supports that claim. Or whether or not we have had 1 or 3 CEOs. Or whether Danny McGinlay is still doing the banners.

I'm open to persuasion on this question (i.e. whether we have mismanaged team and players) but I haven't seen anything to suggest it's not the usual mix of mistakes, mundanities and masterstrokes that you get from just about any AFL club administration.

I'm often critical of the club in certain areas and of Beveridge and other WB people in certain actions, but I don't readily buy the sensationalist "club is in crisis" or "club is chronically incompetent" claims. They have in fact got a lot right over the last few years as any sort of historical perspective should show. On-field success, record membership, erasure of long term debt and strong community involvement would surely be the top four KPIs any club would want to tick off.

Sure it'd would've been nice to go back-to-back in 2017 but gee, we can be incredibly harsh and shortsighted sometimes!

Fair enough.

But something(s) gone seriously wrong with our club in the last 18 months, beyond just injuries.

What's your theory?

 

[cecil]

Anyway the original claim that TMoney was trying to provide evidence for, was mismanagement of the team and players. I don't see how Alberti not getting in the VIP gate in any way supports that claim. Or whether or not we have had 1 or 3 CEOs. Or whether Danny McGinlay is still doing the banners.

I'm open to persuasion on this question (i.e. whether we have mismanaged team and players) but I haven't seen anything to suggest it's not the usual mix of mistakes, mundanities and masterstrokes that you get from just about any AFL club administration.

Pretty much.

For example you can say Beveridge is crazy for shifting Wood forward/playing Daniel back/Trengove everywhere, but at the end of the day he has also made decisions to shift Matty Boyd back, go crazy with 3rd man up, and send Picken into an attacking role too. They won us a premiership, so to say he is mismanaging the team because of moves like that is showing very limited judgement on his coaching. It's the same with Gordon. He's made mistakes along the way, and obviously is more controlling than Smorgon, but the deal he apparently led the way in achieving for Whitten Oval is probably in the top 5 things to ever happen to the club. Just because the team loses a few games doesn't mean every single thing going on is wrong.