Geelong 2007 vs Hawthorn 2014 - who would win?

[blue harvest]

He was perfect because his opposition choked.

You have only 7 players with 4 premierships under their belt. If Geelong win the flag this year then it will be 5 years as well since our last and I will not consider it part of that dynasty.

No he wasn't. His opposition didn't choke, they were taken out in a crash, the type of crash that often happens in that sport.
I could go in that race, cruise around well behind the leaders and win it when they crashed into each other. But if I got a bunch of mates and entered a team into the AFL I don't think we could pounce on GF day when Mooney and Co missed a couple of shots. Analogy is not fitting at all, not even close, comparing ice skating to a team game where 30 goals are scored is laughable.

PS: On my count we only have 6 players with 4, you might be counting Burgoyne's flag at Port. 9 players from the 18 listed in the starting line up played some part in the 3-peat, Hodge, Mitchell, Rough, Buddy, Lewis, Cyril, Birchall, Sewell, Guerra, plus the coach.

 

[blue harvest]

Hawks just lucky they happened to be at the top when GC and GWS came in taking talent and draft picks away from everyone else, making it almost impossible to bridge the small gap.
No surprise they make GFs when those 2 come into the comp.
Under normal circumstances they don't win 3, simples.

They took talent and draft picks away from us too.

 

[Overhang]

No he wasn't. His opposition didn't choke, they were taken out in a crash, the type of crash that often happens in that sport.
I could go in that race, cruise around well behind the leaders and win it when they crashed into each other. But if I got a bunch of mates and entered a team into the AFL I don't think we could pounce on GF day when Mooney and Co missed a couple of shots. Analogy is not fitting at all, not even close, comparing ice skating to a team game where 30 goals are scored is laughable.

I'll call it a choke, you can call what ever you want, we're both biased.

 

[Spook]

if the game mattered, Hawthorn would win

 

[BuddyHawk]

Hawks just lucky they happened to be at the top when GC and GWS came in taking talent and draft picks away from everyone else, making it almost impossible to bridge the small gap.
No surprise they make GFs when those 2 come into the comp.
Under normal circumstances they don't win 3, simples.

We weren't at the top when the new franchises entered the comp. In 2010, the year of the first compromised draft, we had a less-than-stellar 12-10-1 season, culminating in an elimination final smashing against Freo.

As this came on the back back of a 9-13 debacle in 09, I think it's fair to say we were the very embodiment of mid-table mediocrity, with the 08 flag already a fast-receding memory. Indeed, I remember being pretty pissed at the end of 2010 that Gold Coast's entry to the league was pushing us down the draft order, when we needed a quality injection of young talent.

We were obviously better in 11, when GWS monopolised the best picks, but Geelong and Collingwood were still a class above. Surely in this era of compromised drafts, those two teams - who won 44 games between them that year and put on a such a masterclass on GF day - would dominate the league for years to come?

So what happened? Well, I'll let Cats and Pies fans speak for their own teams. From a Hawks' perspective, we quite simply drafted and traded brilliantly in 2010, 11 and 12 - so much so, that the 2013 Premiership team only comprised 11 players who played in the EF loss in 2010. That's a pretty impressive turnover in the space of 3 years for a side already at the "top".

 

[BuddyHawk]

I'm sure some stat genesis could find out but we have heard many times that if you lose I50,CP and clearances that the odds are you will lose the game. And that is the point, if the game was played over and over again with those stats Hawthorn would lose the game a lot more than they would win as you rely on the opposition making a lot of mistakes up forward to win and luckily for Hawthorn we didn't have our goal kicking boots on.

The Cats certainly missed a lot of chances, especially in the the second quarter.

However, the stats you've cited aren't the be-all-and-end-all. The Hawks victory was in large part due to smashing the Cats in outside run - the running bounce differential was something crazy like 38-8 - and ball use.

The Cats were the better side in terms of contested ball, but were never able to spread from the contest as effectively as Hawthorn were. And their defence couldn't cope with the Hawks' multi-pronged forward line - 18 goals from 43 inside 50s was a massive return.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

We weren't at the top when the new franchises entered the comp. In 2010, the year of the first compromised draft, we had a less-than-stellar 12-10-1 season, culminating in an elimination final smashing against Freo.

As this came on the back back of a 9-13 debacle in 09, I think it's fair to say we were the very embodiment of mid-table mediocrity, with the 08 flag already a fast-receding memory. Indeed, I remember being pretty pissed at the end of 2010 that Gold Coast's entry to the league was pushing us down the draft order, when we needed a quality injection of young talent.

We were obviously better in 11, when GWS monopolised the best picks, but Geelong and Collingwood were still a class above. Surely in this era of compromised drafts, those two teams - who won 44 games between them that year and put on a such a masterclass on GF day - would dominate the league for years to come?

So what happened? Well, I'll let Cats and Pies fans speak for their own teams. From a Hawks' perspective, we quite simply drafted and traded brilliantly in 2010, 11 and 12 - so much so, that the 2013 Premiership team only comprised 11 players who played in the EF loss in 2010. That's a pretty impressive turnover in the space of 3 years for a side already at the "top".

Good post.
To answer the 2011 GF from a Cats point of view, simply what happened was an old team losing old Champions, I believe the 2011 team was the oldest to win a Premiership.

 

[BuddyHawk]

Good post.
To answer the 2011 GF from a Cats point of view, simply what happened was an old team losing old Champions, I believe the 2011 team was the oldest to win a Premiership.

Only surpassed by the Hawks of 2015!

But yeah, the Cats slide post-11 (in relative terms, of course - you've still been bloody good in the ensuing five years, last year aside, and could have easily won in '13) was inevitable. For a start, losing Ottens and Ling in the 2011 off-season meant you were far more vulnerable against sides with strong-bodied inside mids, with Freo taking full advantage in the 2012 and 2013 finals.

With hindsight, it's the Pies who should have capitalised more on the "compromised drafts" era, as their 2010 premiership side was one of the youngest on record

 

[cryptor]

Good post.
To answer the 2011 GF from a Cats point of view, simply what happened was an old team losing old Champions, I believe the 2011 team was the oldest to win a Premiership.

I think we may have pipped you for the oldest team to win a premiership stat with our 2015 side. Not certain but there was some stat I saw going around towards the end of last season that said we named a side with the highest average games played ever. Assuming we'd have named the oldest side on average too given the number of late 20's and 30+ year olds.

 

[Roquay]

Pressure would stop us taking shots from directly in front, it would stop us taking shots <30 out on a less than 45< angles. Pressure would have put us on the boundary or kicking from 50 constantly. No it wasn't pressure that killed us it was us that killed us.

In 2008 Geelong were easily the best team during the regular season. Hawthorn were easily the best team during the finals.

 

[Macpotata]

Hawks

Both were vulnerable in the prelim. Actually Port probably should have won that. But on the day itself both these sides were great. We inevitably would have shat ourselves though like we do against the Hawks, like 08.

They were just better on the day in all honesty and would have beaten pretty much anyone in the history. Except maybe the 95 Carlton team.


That's the best team of all time imo. Bombers of 2000, nah not in the Blues of 95 class.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Geelong.

 

[Carson Dial]

Hawthorn because their players would be an average of 7 years younger..sheesh

 

[Pessimistic]

Could go either way really. On the fence but a fair assesment

 

[MightyHawks]

I want these as Prelims

Friday Night
Carlton 1995 v Essendon 2000 - MCG
Saturday Night
Geelong 2007 v Hawthorn 2014 - MCG

Emmett Brown, make yourself useful and make this happen!

Why do we get the short break to the Grand Final?

 

[juss]

Personally I would tip Geelong 07. I just feel it was a team with so many players at their absolute best. Didnt they have something like 9 AAs that year? They also had Ablett Jr. who was at his peak and probably the best midfielder of the modern era. I think they were slightly better across the park.

You can make a case for each though, theres a lot of quality on either side.

 

[MightyHawks]

Do I need to bring up the records that Geelong set during our 2007-2011 dynasty?

Records that will most likely stand forever.

Most wins in a season without winning a premiership?

 

[Benny78]

No, premierships are all that matters.
3-peating is a huge achievement.

Premierships are hardly as significant as breaking AFL records. Plus Geelong won 3 flags in their era anyway.

 

[Furn2]

2007 Geelong couldn't even beat 2007 Hawthorn.

 

[swiftdog]

Geelong for me. They were on a mission that day. You put any team (and I’m including Brisbane 01-03 in that) in front of Geelong in GF day in 2007, with the weight of “handbaggers” history on their shoulders coupled with the “keep a lid on it” focus, and Geelong win no matter what.

 

[TimmeT]

2007 Geelong couldn't even beat 2007 Hawthorn.

Stupid logic. 2007 Hawthorn beat 2007 Geelong god in what round 4 before Geelong went off? We were the only side to beat them after round 5. Lets just ignore the logic that you lost to North in the final who Geelong beat by 100 plus points the week before.

 

[Leeda]

Hawthorn Bar 22... don't ask me why...

 

[Benny78]

Both Collingwood 2011 and St Kilda 2009 would've destroyed any of those Hawthorn sides. Would've been an 8+ goal blowout.

Hawthorn couldn't even beat Geelong once during that era. I would be surprised if they managed to beat St Kilda & Collingwood during those 5 H&A seasons as well.

 

[King_Steele]

Geelong 07 by a long way

 

[Trav 20]

2007 Geelong couldn't even beat 2007 Hawthorn.

Geelong comfortably.

And what is it about Hawthorn supporters continually using isolated games months prior to a finals series as some sort of meaningful guide ?

The most clueless supporters on BF.