Player Watch Darcy Moore

[Mukesh]

So basically he used smarts to cover up his physical weaknesses? That's what Lockett and Dunstall did too, they weren't the most physically gifted athletes but their footy brain and positioning pushed them over the edge. Didn't really see any of the rest of them but I remember Dunstall and Lockett just kick it in their vicinity, they will mark it.

Whoa there... Plugger ? Not a physically gifted athlete maybe... but a superbly physically gifted footballer.. and that’s more important

 

[sr36]

Whoa there... Plugger ? Not a physically gifted athlete maybe... but a superbly physically gifted footballer.. and that’s more important

Plugger was an extremely gifted athlete. He got fat, but was still quick enough to keep space on the lead.

Dunstall was too. Lightni g on the lead and super strong.

 

[Mukesh]

Plugger was an extremely gifted athlete. He got fat, but was still quick enough to keep space on the lead.

Dunstall was too. Lightni g on the lead and super strong.

Agreed... I guess it depends on ones definition of an athlete..

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Plugger looks amazing these days.

Very svelte.

 

[jathanas]

Which is probably the real reason he didn't go to Sydney last year, his value then was shot

To help other posters I've highlighted in red any parts of your post that might be considered speculative.

 

[Maggie5]

Which is probably the real reason he didn't go to Sydney last year, his value then was shot

You must have missed the part where Moore stated Sydney wasn't in his plans as he wanted to get his body right first.

Coaches thought he was the second best player against Port. Second to Pendlebury.

 

[eddiesmith]

To help other posters I've highlighted in red any parts of your post that might be considered speculative.

Hence the word probably, but the last bit wasn't speculative

Do you really think a player who has barely managed to finish 3 games for the season, broken down in about 4 others really going to command much value?

Darcy right now is worth a lot more than he was 6 months ago because he is actually playing

 

[Maggie5]

It was in his plans, until he realised he wasn't worth anything given the year he had just had so of course he wanted to get the body right so he can command more money. A lot better bargaining position pitting Collingwood against Sydney when his contract runs out than trying to get more money out of a new club after his first contract there

You are either part of his family or very close to him to know so much about what he was thinking or alternatively, Tattslotto numbers please.

 

[TradeDraft]

View attachment 668809

What have you got to say about that Knightmare ?

I said that when I 1st saw him play for Oakleigh Chargers in his Draft Year as I went to that game

 

[sr36]

You are either part of his family or very close to him to know so much about what he was thinking or alternatively, Tattslotto numbers please.

Eddiesmith is only claiming to be able to read Darcy's mind, knowing the tattslotto numbers is a whole different X-Men power.

 

[sirlothie]

Plugger was an extremely gifted athlete. He got fat, but was still quick enough to keep space on the lead.

Dunstall was too. Lightni g on the lead and super strong.

I guess I mean weren't finely tuned athletes... they both carried a bit extra. They were unlikely to sit on your head but both very powerful still on the lead.

 

[Knightmare]

I think a lot of our different point of view comes down to a difference in footy philosophy. I view the game as a game that's won and lost depending on how well you attack and defend. Whereas I get the impression that you may view the game as one where you win or lose by controlling possession.

From my perspective of attack and defend, Scarlett, Jakovich and the way Moore is projecting are the ones I want, because they defend so well through a combination of marking and punching - which I think you are underrating as it regularly leads to team intercepts. But they also contribute to attacking by running with the ball, taking the game on and using it effectively. Lake and McGovern defend really well through marking it, but their 'safe' ball movement actually restricts attack as it allows the opposition to set up behind the ball.

Whereas if you're looking from a perspective of controlling possession, McGovern and Lake with their outstanding intercept marking and safe ball movement are probably the one's to go for. I just don't agree with the controlling possession perspective.

I look at the game as being a game of three phases.

Ball in dispute, attack and defence.

With regarding to the back half. You want to avoid the ball being in dispute where practical - West Coast style and go for your marks where you can because you're not going to be pressured into mistakes and can more easily and quickly clear from defence a lot of the time. You still as a defender key or general need to win your 1v1s but otherwise it's about intercepting and offence as those areas you want on the highest of levels. And if you have good pressure up the field I view that as the most optimal way towards maximising success in that half of the field.

Punching I view as only good if it's a situation where there is space and you're either directly punching it to a teammate to gain possession without pressure or you bring it to ground and you're so good that you can win possession and clear to a target up field. Otherwise marking in defence is what I very heavily prioritise with guys who can generate meaningful drive - foot or run need to play major roles and are also of high importance to get you through zones and create meaningful offensive drive. And it's more those medium types who will move it quickly normally with not many key defenders the drive starters themselves - bonuses if they can though those who have been able to do that haven't been strong enough in other facets of the game to reasonably rate them ahead of McGovern or Lake.

And with the majority of scores coming from turnovers - it's the pressure up the field, intercepting and speed and precision of ball movement from up the field that is most important to kicking winning scores ultimately.

Scarlett and Jakovich are both top-five all-time key defenders for mine, but they're not my preferences ahead of McGovern or Lake. And Scarlett I'd consider as a third tall defender alongside McGovern/Lake.

If I listed my most highly rated all-time general defenders you'll find they're all first-option attacking types who generate meaningful, fast drive from defence though again as with key defenders they need that and an intercepting component.

 

[sr36]

I guess I mean weren't finely tuned athletes... they both carried a bit extra. They were unlikely to sit on your head but both very powerful still on the lead.

In his early years, Plugger could sit on heads, but he got too big and couldn't leave the ground. I watched him in a practice match, just after the Brownlow season, and he took about 4 bona fide hangers. He then got an injury, got fat and never left the ground again. Plus at that size, he would have been arrested for murder if he did sit on heads.

 

[sirlothie]

In his early years, Plugger could sit on heads, but he got too big and couldn't leave the ground. I watched him in a practice match, just after the Brownlow season, and he took about 4 bona fide hangers. He then got an injury, got fat and never left the ground again. Plus at that size, he would have been arrested for murder if he did sit on heads.

Well I missed his Brownlow season, I only started waking up about footy a couple of years later. Still caught some sensational years from Lockett, Dunstall and Ablett though. The 3 best full forwards I've ever seen all playing at the same time...

 

[sirlothie]

I look at the game as being a game of three phases.

Ball in dispute, attack and defence.

With regarding to the back half. You want to avoid the ball being in dispute where practical - West Coast style and go for your marks where you can because you're not going to be pressured into mistakes and can more easily and quickly clear from defence a lot of the time. You still as a defender key or general need to win your 1v1s but otherwise it's about intercepting and offence as those areas you want on the highest of levels. And if you have good pressure up the field I view that as the most optimal way towards maximising success in that half of the field.

Punching I view as only good if it's a situation where there is space and you're either directly punching it to a teammate to gain possession without pressure or you bring it to ground and you're so good that you can win possession and clear to a target up field. Otherwise marking in defence is what I very heavily prioritise with guys who can generate meaningful drive - foot or run need to play major roles and are also of high importance to get you through zones and create meaningful offensive drive. And it's more those medium types who will move it quickly normally with not many key defenders the drive starters themselves - bonuses if they can though those who have been able to do that haven't been strong enough in other facets of the game to reasonably rate them ahead of McGovern or Lake.

And with the majority of scores coming from turnovers - it's the pressure up the field, intercepting and speed and precision of ball movement from up the field that is most important to kicking winning scores ultimately.

Scarlett and Jakovich are both top-five all-time key defenders for mine, but they're not my preferences ahead of McGovern or Lake. And Scarlett I'd consider as a third tall defender alongside McGovern/Lake.

If I listed my most highly rated all-time general defenders you'll find they're all first-option attacking types who generate meaningful, fast drive from defence though again as with key defenders they need that and an intercepting component.

You're still not accounting that if a forward has a good run at it, the defender HAS to punch. Every backman punches if his opponent has a better fly at it than he does. Sometimes the best you can do is spoil and deal with the consequences at ground level afterwards. Noone is good enough to just wipe out his opponent and mark everything that comes your way.

 

[Apex36]

This better?

Hahah, I actually meant that you’d put in too much effort finding that!

 

[Knightmare]

You're still not accounting that if a forward has a good run at it, the defender HAS to punch. Every backman punches if his opponent has a better fly at it than he does. Sometimes the best you can do is spoil and deal with the consequences at ground level afterwards. Noone is good enough to just wipe out his opponent and mark everything that comes your way.

With defensive zones my expectation is spaces will get clogged up so there is little opportunity to lead. This isn't the 90s where full forwards have all the space in the world to lead into - space is too clogged up. With how much ball movement has been limited progressively over time and how the spaces are getting clogged up, I'd either be pressuring opponents into mistakes up the field for easy intercept marks or forcing marks to contests to be gobbled up by McGovern as per West Coast. Do that and there isn't much ground level stuff for key defenders to navigate.

 

[Scodog10]

Hahah, I actually meant that you’d put in too much effort finding that!

Hah gotcha you threw me a bit because it was a two minute search I’ve gone to a lot more trouble before! Holding onto it says a bit about me, but the bias of it was why it stuck with me.

 

[foreigner]

Which is probably the real reason he didn't go to Sydney last year, his value then was shot

He said in the recent interview that Sydney was never in consideration. He was focused on getting his body right. Seems to have been media hype only.

 

[sr36]

With regarding to the back half. You want to avoid the ball being in dispute where practical - West Coast style and go for your marks where you can because you're not going to be pressured into mistakes and can more easily and quickly clear from defence a lot of the time. You still as a defender key or general need to win your 1v1s but otherwise it's about intercepting and offence as those areas you want on the highest of levels. And if you have good pressure up the field I view that as the most optimal way towards maximising success in that half of the field.

Punching I view as only good if it's a situation where there is space and you're either directly punching it to a teammate to gain possession without pressure or you bring it to ground and you're so good that you can win possession and clear to a target up field. Otherwise marking in defence is what I very heavily prioritise with guys who can generate meaningful drive - foot or run need to play major roles and are also of high importance to get you through zones and create meaningful offensive drive. And it's more those medium types who will move it quickly normally with not many key defenders the drive starters themselves - bonuses if they can though those who have been able to do that haven't been strong enough in other facets of the game to reasonably rate them ahead of McGovern or Lake.

The commentators always go on about MacGovern being a defender who always attacks the ball and flys for his marks. He does do this, but if you look at his field position when he's doing this, it's invariably the wing, high half back or high half forward. He sits in the middle of the WCE zone press, a kick in his direction is a ball in dispute in a neutral part of the ground. It's at a point on the ground where there's no reason for one team to be more defensive than the other. In that situation, he's simply attacking a ball in dispute. He does it magnificently.

Inside defensive 50, like all good defenders, he is much more balanced with his attack on the ball. He launches at it if he's covered off hsi man, but if his man has advantage, he spoils. The reason why so many have rated Rance higher is that his athleticism and judgement enables him to zone off further when in a dangerous spot and thus get to and win or kill more contests at the point where the result of contests has a bigger impact on the scoreboard.

 

[Anzacday]

Darcy right now is worth a lot more than he was 6 months ago because he is actually playing well

Just so we know you've moved on.

 

[jathanas]

Hence the word probably, but the last bit wasn't speculative

Do you really think a player who has barely managed to finish 3 games for the season, broken down in about 4 others really going to command much value?

Darcy right now is worth a lot more than he was 6 months ago because he is actually playing

Relatively speaking he would have cost less last year, but that's only because he'd be worth sh*tloads now. Players like Darcy are rare i.e. high quality big athletic types which is why they will never be cheap.

 

[eddiesmith]

Relatively speaking he would have cost less last year, but that's only because he'd be worth sh*tloads now. Players like Darcy are rare i.e. high quality big athletic types which is why they will never be cheap.

But up until this last 6 weeks, he has only really been hype,

He said in the recent interview that Sydney was never in consideration. He was focused on getting his body right. Seems to have been media hype only.

Of course, I'd fully expect him to tell the truth and say I wanted to move to Sydney but they wouldn't offer me enough so I took my 2nd choice and stayed at Collingwood...

 

[jmac70]

Which is probably the real reason he didn't go to Sydney last year, his value then was shot

Your spiteful attitude is really boring.
Moore loves the Pies and was never a chance to leave. His old man told me that personally.

 

[Knightmare]

The commentators always go on about MacGovern being a defender who always attacks the ball and flys for his marks. He does do this, but if you look at his field position when he's doing this, it's invariably the wing, high half back or high half forward. He sits in the middle of the WCE zone press, a kick in his direction is a ball in dispute in a neutral part of the ground. It's at a point on the ground where there's no reason for one team to be more defensive than the other. In that situation, he's simply attacking a ball in dispute. He does it magnificently.

Inside defensive 50, like all good defenders, he is much more balanced with his attack on the ball. He launches at it if he's covered off hsi man, but if his man has advantage, he spoils. The reason why so many have rated Rance higher is that his athleticism and judgement enables him to zone off further when in a dangerous spot and thus get to and win or kill more contests at the point where the result of contests has a bigger impact on the scoreboard.

I agree with all of your analysis with regards to strengths, weaknesses and where they all stand here in each facet of the game in relation to one another.

I see no issue with that being McGovern's role. That's the ideal way to play the position. McGovern plays higher as the CHB, so he gets a lot of those opportunities and takes full advantage of it. And on a good team and with a good zone set up across the ground he's that ideal piece at that position because with few opportunities to hit long leading targets eventually teams go high and long to a contest and McGovern does what he does to a best in the history of the game standard by position.

McGovern isn't a strong athlete but at the same time he doesn't need to be. Rance absolutely is the better athlete and playing the deeper role generally I'd expect him to be more adept closer to goal. If you compare Rance to Lake, Lake while not the athlete or defensive stopper Rance is, he was more dominant 1v1 and a much more prolific interceptor/intercept mark/contested mark/1v1 mark. And again in that kind of modern zone setup, I'm taking Lake because modern defensive systems allow defenders to play that style of game more than ever with how many guys get back behind the ball and make it so hard to lead with such little space most of the time.