Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XIV

[Runk]

Jarman Impeys ACL is done according to every news channel sports report.

 

[Lore]

True

The AFL need to admit they f’ed up and close GC and then the talent gets spread over the 17 teams

They won't do that. it's 22 games that the AFL can sell to broadcasters, 11 of which are away games which the opponents earn money from at the ground. It's also another club to write articles about, and the games are still worth 4 points and percentage, which attracts a neutral viewership particularly towards the end of the season. You could make that argument about literally any team, but at the end of the day the AFL would rather field a team of root vegetables than not have an 18th team.

They could be relocated, but the AFL won't do anything to fold or merge them unless they have a new 18th team lined up (at which point their mouths will water at the idea of 19 teams).



On the other hand...

GC have the lowest average home game attendances in 2019, but are only slightly behind GWS. Their average away game attendances are greater than both Brisbane and Adelaide, they're third last on that one. Combined attendances they're dead last, behind GWS. Compared to their own attendances in previous years, their away attendances this year are the highest they've ever been, home game attendances are the lowest they've ever been, and combined H&A attendances are third highest after 2011 and 2014.

2011 was their inaugural year, but 2014 is interesting, it was the year they won 10 games and finished 12th, which is their best result to date, it's also the year they sacked Bluey because they didn't make finals in their first 4 years, he left with a 25% win record. Kind of funny, because GWS didn't make finals in their first 4 years either, they were 11th in their 4th year, but jumped into the top 4 in their fifth year. GWS also only won 20 games in their first four years, compared to 24 for GC. So really, GC were more successful if we compare them at the end of four years in the league.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

They won't do that. it's 22 games that the AFL can sell to broadcasters, 11 of which are away games which the opponents earn money from at the ground. It's also another club to write articles about, and the games are still worth 4 points and percentage, which attracts a neutral viewership particularly towards the end of the season. You could make that argument about literally any team, but at the end of the day the AFL would rather field a team of root vegetables than not have an 18th team.

They could be relocated, but the AFL won't do anything to fold or merge them unless they have a new 18th team lined up (at which point their mouths will water at the idea of 19 teams).



On the other hand...

GC have the lowest average home game attendances in 2019, but are only slightly behind GWS. Their average away game attendances are greater than both Brisbane and Adelaide, they're third last on that one. Combined attendances they're dead last, behind GWS. Compared to their own attendances in previous years, their away attendances this year are the highest they've ever been, home game attendances are the lowest they've ever been, and combined H&A attendances are third highest after 2011 and 2014.

2011 was their inaugural year, but 2014 is interesting, it was the year they won 10 games and finished 12th, which is their best result to date, it's also the year they sacked Bluey because they didn't make finals in their first 4 years, he left with a 25% win record. Kind of funny, because GWS didn't make finals in their first 4 years either, they were 11th in their 4th year, but jumped into the top 4 in their fifth year. GWS also only won 20 games in their first four years, compared to 24 for GC. So really, GC were more successful if we compare them at the end of four years in the league.

Send them to Tassie, GoldCoast is a sporting graveyard

 

[Doss]

Sacking McKenna seemed to be a rash decision at the time and their sink into the mire under Eade (who always struck me as a very odd appointment) made it even more so.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Sacking McKenna seemed to be a rash decision at the time and their sink into the mire under Eade (who always struck me as a very odd appointment) made it even more so.

They’d be ok with Saad, O’Meara, Prestia, May, Dixon, Caddy, Ablett and Lynch in the team still. In fact possibly finals contenders.

 

[TheGrizz]

Sacking McKenna seemed to be a rash decision at the time and their sink into the mire under Eade (who always struck me as a very odd appointment) made it even more so.

I dont know if McKenna would have made much of a difference had he stayed. The issues around facilities, staffing amd welfare means the place was a ticking time bomb for implosion.
McKenna had the benefit of the best player in 25 years (Ablett) in top form at his disposal, as well as a really promising group of youngsters such as T.Lynch, May, Dixon, Swallow, Matera and Saad whilst also having pre injury versions of Bennell, OMeara, Rory Thompson and Nathan Bock etc. (As an aside - yikes imagine that team now if they had stayed together and healthy).

The talent level papered over the cracks that were appearing due to a lack of support and infastructure and their cancerous cultural issues happening at the time.
That changed with two events - Gazza doing his shoulder and sacking McKenna. They werent the cause of their issues, but rather the fuses that were lit to begin the implosion.

Gold Coast in reality have never recovered from their under-resourced and neglected start by the AFL, and talent could only mask the issues for so long

 

[Lore]

Sacking McKenna seemed to be a rash decision at the time and their sink into the mire under Eade (who always struck me as a very odd appointment) made it even more so.

Hindsight confirms it. I dunno if Sheeds is the difference for GWS or if GC were doomed from the start, lots of strange decisions early on by the AFL and the GC upper management that haven't worked out so well. I don't see why the location would make much difference though, if you're happy to foot the bill without grassroots membership then the location is moot. It's the Ablett vs. Buddy vs. a bunch of solid leaders, the initial list build concessions and how they were used, Cochrane putting his foot in it with ridiculous frequency. Recruiting Karmichael Hunt as well.

The culture and reputation of the place seems very rash in general, wanting to make big statements but forgetting to check the details that end up biting them in the arse. There have been some changes lately, Scott Clayton has moved on, Cochrane has put a sock in it, the AFL moved Mark Evans over there (or GC "poached" him, depending on your perspective), and they got their facilities sorted out in 2017 as well. Hard to know what to make of it all when you have key players and both co-captains leaving the club in an off-season though. Gone from prayer groups, to publicly disparaging your players, to whatever rabble we have atm. How can you blame any one specific thing for their performance when there is that much turmoil inside the club?

 

[Lore]

That changed with two events - Gazza doing his shoulder and sacking McKenna. They werent the cause of their issues, but rather the fuses that were lit to begin the implosion.

This is kind of how I feel about it. The thing Sheeds brought to GWS was an old-fashioned fake it til you make it morale and confidence sorta thing, in an environment where that was allowed and encouraged. Sacking the coach the way they did, and blaming his performance (rather than Sheedy leaving after two years under a succession plan type arrangement) sends a massive message to the players, supporters, and everyone else. The board has lost confidence, your coach (confident or otherwise) isn't here, and your captain then stuffs his shoulder and has one foot out the door.

This business is selling hope. Selling it as much as you can, for as long as you can, to make as much money as you can, and keep as many people invested in the thing as you can, so that you can do it all again the next year. That ^ is not how you do it.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Zaka on the Oval Office

Been watching it the last few weeks i like the show

 

[eth-dog]

Imagine this side, right now, all fully fit:

Charlie Ballard - Steven May - Adam Saad
Pearce Hanley - Rory Thompson - Jarrod Harbrow
Harley Bennell - Gary Ablett - Kade Kolodjashnij
Jack Martin - Tom Lynch - Josh Caddy
Brandon Matera - Charlie Dixon - Peter Wright
Jarrod Witts - David Swallow - Dion Prestia
Alex Sexton - Aaron Hall - Jarryd Lyons - Jack Bowes

Not great in terms of inside mids but it more than makes up for it in speed and footskills.

 

[yodellinhank]

I read somewhere that Southport Sharks used to send their financial reports down to the VFL to boast how well they could run a club. Perhaps the league would've done better to "promote" the known brand up to the big league than to create a new identity?

Google tells me the sharks have a 12 year "patron partnership" with the suns which is in its 10th year.

 

[The Speaker]

I read somewhere that Southport Sharks used to send their financial reports down to the VFL to boast how well they could run a club. Perhaps the league would've done better to "promote" the known brand up to the big league than to create a new identity?

Google tells me the sharks have a 12 year "patron partnership" with the suns which is in its 10th year.

Probably didn't want another Port Adelaide.

 

[TheGrizz]

I read somewhere that Southport Sharks used to send their financial reports down to the VFL to boast how well they could run a club. Perhaps the league would've done better to "promote" the known brand up to the big league than to create a new identity?

Google tells me the sharks have a 12 year "patron partnership" with the suns which is in its 10th year.

I would have done what they did with Port Adelaide and given Southport s licence instead of the Suns.
They already have a membersip of 30,000+ which is more than both Gold Coast and GWS and they are only a NEAFL.
If they were going to neglect them like they did the Gold Coast in their earlier stages, at least Southport would have known how to run themselves until the AFL got their act together.

Southport is also only lile 30mins from Gold Coast so it essentially the same demographic and you could have them play at Carrara with 2 or so home games at Southport

 

[Stopher]

Southport Suns?

 

[Maddogm]

I would have done what they did with Port Adelaide and given Southport s licence instead of the Suns.
They already have a membersip of 30,000+ which is more than both Gold Coast and GWS and they are only a NEAFL.
If they were going to neglect them like they did the Gold Coast in their earlier stages, at least Southport would have known how to run themselves until the AFL got their act together.

Southport is also only lile 30mins from Gold Coast so it essentially the same demographic and you could have them play at Carrara with 2 or so home games at Southport

Southport is part of the Gold Coast - it's the next suburb up from Surfers

 

[Old Campaigner]

Their problems are as much cultural and player welfare related as anything. They had their new player welfare guy interviewed on the ABC a few months back and he said as much, and that most of their effort with the current rebuild is to get in quality people to build a strong culture.

The AFL and GWS learned a lot from GCS, and it can be seen in who they chose to recruit, and the AFL giving them far more draft concessions. Ward and Davis are very good players, but they aren’t superstars the way Ablett is. What they are is excellent leaders to shape all the high draft picks they’ve been gifted into quality people and players.

 

[DapperJong]

Southport is part of the Gold Coast - it's the next suburb up from Surfers

Yep.

He may mean the grounds?

 

[Pweter]

The AFL stuffed up the introduction of GC. When Port and Freo were introduced they were into football strong states and they drew on the footballing heritage of the Port Magpies and the South/East Freo supporters to drive the initial supporter base of the clubs.

For GC the AFL put a new club into a Rugby League/Union state and kept their fingers crossed that initial interest will be there and organic growth will follow. While probably growing, I doubt it'd be anywhere nearly as quickly as the AFL had hoped and the poor onfield results certainly won't be helping that.

 

[BrunoV]

I don't know if it accords with academy or rep team inclusion, but there's certainly a recruiting assumption that key forwards without elite physical traits won't have what it takes to match AFL defenders and defensive setups so are left to slide (and conversely those with the tools go very early). I don't think that's necessarily wrong though - for every Lewis or Larkey who blossom after a few years of seconds there are plenty who wash out of the system, though that's the case with all types.

It often seems to be the opposite. The raw athletes are the ones that work and their being overlooked because they dont kick 7 a game but then no one does.

 

[BrunoV]

They won't do that. it's 22 games that the AFL can sell to broadcasters, 11 of which are away games which the opponents earn money from at the ground. It's also another club to write articles about, and the games are still worth 4 points and percentage, which attracts a neutral viewership particularly towards the end of the season. You could make that argument about literally any team, but at the end of the day the AFL would rather field a team of root vegetables than not have an 18th team.

They could be relocated, but the AFL won't do anything to fold or merge them unless they have a new 18th team lined up (at which point their mouths will water at the idea of 19 teams).



On the other hand...

GC have the lowest average home game attendances in 2019, but are only slightly behind GWS. Their average away game attendances are greater than both Brisbane and Adelaide, they're third last on that one. Combined attendances they're dead last, behind GWS. Compared to their own attendances in previous years, their away attendances this year are the highest they've ever been, home game attendances are the lowest they've ever been, and combined H&A attendances are third highest after 2011 and 2014.

2011 was their inaugural year, but 2014 is interesting, it was the year they won 10 games and finished 12th, which is their best result to date, it's also the year they sacked Bluey because they didn't make finals in their first 4 years, he left with a 25% win record. Kind of funny, because GWS didn't make finals in their first 4 years either, they were 11th in their 4th year, but jumped into the top 4 in their fifth year. GWS also only won 20 games in their first four years, compared to 24 for GC. So really, GC were more successful if we compare them at the end of four years in the league.

All of the numbers suggest GC is the viable club, the problem is the botched start, which has been done to death. It's not the first time this has happened either.

Brisbane and Freo started out basket cases.

The AFL just needs to break all the rules to get GC successful on field. I'm talking an extra million or two on the salary cap and GC will make care of itself. Maybe even break the bank to get Clarkson there.

GWS' numbers are only ahead because GC's keep dropping. GWS only has support in Canberra. Its GWS thst concerns me because no one cares despite their success and attractive brand.

 

[Beerfish]

Yeah let's compromise the competition again to try and gift this pile of s**t club some fake success at the expense of everyone else. I'm all for another few years of busting our arses for nothing in the football wilderness to make it happen. Yay! Footy!

Is that too cynical?

 

[Maddogm]

Yeah let's compromise the competition again to try and gift this pile of s**t club some fake success at the expense of everyone else. I'm all for another few years of busting our arses for nothing in the football wilderness to make it happen. Yay! Footy!

Is that too cynical?

Remember, some of our posters are only happy when we're losing

 

[GUMBLETRON]

It often seems to be the opposite. The raw athletes are the ones that work and their being overlooked because they dont kick 7 a game but then no one does.

The raw athletes have those traits though. Even if your underage year is sketchy, if you're an athletic freak (like, say, Balta) you'll go early enough. If you're a manchild and as slow as a wet week, it doesn't matter if you can bully your fellow kids and top the U18 goalkicking (as Gown nearly did, behind such household names as Jake Gasper, Hudson Garoni and Charlie Wilson) - you'll slide, if not go undrafted. And if you're a freak and can football, you're a top 5 pick.

There are two types of player recruiters roundly ignore, almost no matter how they peform - big, slow key position types, and midget inside midfielders.

 

[Dave]

Yeah let's compromise the competition again to try and gift this pile of s**t club some fake success at the expense of everyone else. I'm all for another few years of busting our arses for nothing in the football wilderness to make it happen. Yay! Footy!

Is that too cynical?

Too realistic. The AFL don’t give a stuff how long we stay in the wilderness as long as we keep turning up and spending.

 

[TheGrizz]

Yep.

He may mean the grounds?

This.

Although i see why what i said may have been mistaken.
Mea Culpa